Waiting for Weather in Panama (Lots of Pictures)

[mvweebles]

@Jklotz - you asked about weather services. I'll answer in two parts - standard coastal cruising down to Panama (and across South America); and this run up the Caribbean.

WEATHER TOOLS - COASTAL CRUISING (<72-hour runs)
My arbitrary definition of coastal cruising is ability to run within a rolling 72-hour weather forecasts. As @ksanders hints, this allows a boat to go from Alaska to Panama relatively comfortably. Doesn't mean you'll stop, but it means you can bail-out if necessary. I've made many runs of >1000 nms with rolling 24-hour/72-hour that end up being favorable. Even if you don't bail-out, often coastal headlands provide opportunities for protection.

Our tools for Coastal Cruising:

1. PredictWind (the mid-level $250/yr subscription that allows routing and departure planning)
2. Windy (I did upgrade to Pro version at $30/yr)
3. OTHERS
   1. TimeZero Weather Overlay. The N55 I'm on has this capability which is pretty cool. Would offset PredictWind. I believe some features are free with current version of TZ, other features are $$$.
   2. BuoyWeather - I haven't used this for several years but used to find it useful, especially for day-outings.
   3. OpenCPN - has Weather Plug-Ins. It's been a while since I used them so maybe they're better, but they were clunky as heck.

WEATHER TOOLS - EXTENDED/OFFSHORE (>72-hour runs).
No real bail-out options so once you leave, you're committed. For example, there are a few folks on TF who have circumnavigated - the longest run is the Pacific at 2200-ish NMS from California. A Willard 36 did it once and took 16-days. The N55 I'm on could do it in 12 or so. That's well beyond reliable forecasting. This run up the Caribbean is sort of a baby-step version of extended cruising, at least the route we're taking now (with my Willard 36 Weebles, I'll adjust to make it much closer to Coastal Cruising).

Our tools for extended cruising:

1. Pilot Charts (or similar). These show historical weather patterns to help decide when a passage is prudent. These are old-school tools that are sorta fun to study. Located HERE. For example, when we took Weebles from San Francisco to Ensenada, a 500 nm run, we waited until Sept/Oct when the weather is historically calm. Gorgeous run! With Weebles going up the Caribbean, I'll make the run closer to April/May when the weather is historically better. PredictWind has some interesting historical analytics too.
2. Chris Parker Weather Router. The owners hired a professional weather router - Chris Parker is very well known. He was pretty helpful to identify extended departure dates. For example, he could tell 10+ days out if a favorable pattern was likely to develop.
3. PredictWind - Pro Subscription ($500/yr). This gives more granular routing but more importantly for these waters, gives planning with respect to currents: The Gulf Stream. GS info is available elsewhere (Windy has currents) but to get actual routing, PW Pro is a good choice (BTW - an App call "FastSeas" is an overlay using Windy as the underlying engine and will route relative to currents so is a possible alternative at $60/yr). For the Pacific, the extra $250/yr really isn't needed.
4. NOAA/OPC Synoptic Charts (Atlantic side located HERE - Cuba/Florida are in the lower left corner). The 48-hour surface forecast is pretty useful as it shows forecast movements of fronts and lo/hi pressure systems. Below is the one for right now.

There are plenty of ways to skin this cat. Above is our approach. I will say the Caribbean has been a learning curve as the weather patterns are different than the Pacific. On my to-do learning list is to understand the 500mb charts better. This should give better long range visibility for me.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

Very similar to my experience of those waters. I felt kind of robbed, feeling like I was entitled to expect a relatively easy downwind run. But I've been robbed by the weather before.

By this hour (11:30 AM) you've probably emerged from the lee of Cape San Antonio. Could you smell the verdant soil and vegetation of Cuba? Hope the next leg is easy.

Really regret that you won't be able to stop and break up your passage at the Dry Tortugas. Once you get your own Weebles to the west coast of Florida, that will be a nice destination for you to explore, in case you have not already been, and maybe even if you have already been. For me, the Ft. Jefferson experience never seems to get old.

Approaching Key West from the west (as if coming in from the Tortugas) you would typically cross Rebecca Shoal Channel and pass south of the Marquesas Keys, then enter KW harbor via Sand Key Channel. The run along the bank through the Key West National Wildlife Refuge is calm and beautiful. However, I always get beaten up crossing the Rebecca Shoal Channel from west to east. YMMV, but the prevailing wind is on the nose and the current is always to some degree counter to the wind. If you're not in the mood for several hours of rolling and plunging through a short, steep chop, go around the north side of the Dry Tortugas, stay north of the Marquesas and enter Key West via Northwest Channel. It's less scenic, but more comfortable, and you'll arrive in KW close to the decent marinas.

We went to the Dry Tortugas on a friend's boat out of Key West 6-years ago. I too fell in love with the place, though back then there was no comms at all - no VHF, no cell reception. I wonder if Starlink has changed the remote feeling of the place? But yes, it's high on our list for Weebles when she eventually gets here.

Thanks for the local knowledge on approaches to Key West. I think we're committed to crossing the stream conventionally - south of Marquesas Keys. I'm eager to see how the weather shakes-out. Chris Parker forecasts fairly lively winds (upper teens) against the Gulf Stream and advises a 90-degree crossing. NOAA/OPC shows a large-ish hi-pressure over the area and reduced winds. Our current thinking is to cross quickly to the north side of the Gulf Stream. If the winds are acceptable, ride the current towards KW. If winds are high, we'll dump out of the GS. Looks like it will be late tomorrow night when we at KW so will anchor nearby.

Peter, your experience here is invaluable.

Seeing your route planning, it's easy to see why boats in the coastal cruiser category like mine end up "stuck" on the eastern shore of Panama.

We just don't have the range or seakeeping capability to safely navigate the geopolitical realities of Central America

Shelter Bay Marina (Caribbean side of Panama Canal) is indeed a graveyard of cruising dreams. Many boats for sale.

I've been noodling over getting Weebles up the Caribbean for almost 2-years. To my thinking, a very challenging run on a boat not made for long runs. I think Dos Peces would be workable but would take a lot of planning (as does Weebles). For both boats, goal is to convert the long 1200nm passage into short hops of less than 500nms. My current thinking is to head east towards eastern Colombia, then squirt up to Jamaica (440 nms) and then around east end of Cuba through Bahamas. I think your Bayliner 4788 would be workable but would require the patience of Job.

 

[Larry M]

Peter: When we went to the eastern Caribbean from Panama, it was via Cartagena then to Santa Marta from Panama/San Blais. No regrets. We went further east than you are planning after Santa Marta but the cities are very cool particularly Cartagena. Eastern San Blais islands don’t get a lot of cruisers and the locals were more than welcoming. The only downside cruising Colombia was the check in/out of every port and the Coast Gurad visits. We never feel threatened and the CG were all pros but it can be a little unsettling.

Thanks for letting us tag along.

 

[guy with a boat]

According to TimeZero, our average speed remains 6.9 it's or around 165 NMS per day. Definitely the tortoise in the race.

What engine is in that boat? Do you think the 6.9 is close to SOW? That does seem to be a pretty slow pace for that boat.
FWIW, we average around 8kts while towing a 4500lb boat with only a bit more waterline.

 

[mvweebles]

2am (what else is new?). Underway 6-1/2 days and covered 1031 nm. Toto: we're a long way from Kansas.

Right now, focus is on Gulf Stream (GS) and wind which is against the GS. We're about 160 nm from an anchorage near Key West where we'll drop a hook sometime around midnight tomorrow night and wait until daylight to enter Key West. We're all pretty eager to put this ride in the history books. I guess this is my last 2am watch.

PredictWind will have updated forecast by the time I finish this post. If winds are forecast much above 15-kts, we'll change course to due north to exit the GS pronto. Otherwise we'll ride the 2-kt bump for all we can. We placed bets on top SOG - I'm in at 9.0 kts. Owner is 8.6. Winner gets bragging rights. As an observation, while I love having access to currents' forecast, I have to wonder where the base data comes from. PW has two models for currents and they were pretty different, and I suspect neither is very accurate at the margins which is where you need it most.

This boat is setup with three 20" displays. It's been interesting (and perhaps a tad frustrating) to see how the displays are setup for each watch stander. I prefer the radar fairly zoomed in 8-nm slightly offset so there's 10-nm in front, 6-nm behind. My thinking is I really don't want to worry about anything that's more than an hour or so away, and I want to see any small stuff that wanders into my path (panga, though there have been none). I'll zoom out to 24-nm from time. We've been overtaken by a couple shops on my watch - as long as they're at least a mile away I'm good. Other watch standers keep the radar zoomed way out - 24-nm seems common. I have to wonder if the radar would display a panga at that zoom level? I also don't "tag" (aquire) many targets. Unless there's a reason (and boredom/curiosity qualifies as a reason), I won't tag anything that is more than an hour or so away. As good as radar is - and this is a decent tadar, there's quite a bit of distortion in displaying location - sort of a fun house mirror. At 20-nm, a ship might appear dead ahead but by the time it's 6-nm out, it will safely pass. No change in relative speed or bearing by either vessel, just the radar can't accurately discern some things at greater distances. So while it's nice to know there's a ship 20-nm dead ahead, no need to do a damn thing until it's much closer (and likely no action needed). Radar is great and AIS is great and there's a fair amount of functional overlap. But the data has to be treated differently - two known (AIS) locations can be accurately described. A distant radar reflection has very low accuracy. At least that's my thinking but perhaps I'm just lazy.

BTW - before anyone asks, center display is Furuno (slave to TZ). Right display is TimeZero which is master - Furuno MFD mirrors data off TZ but autopilot runs from Furuni MFD so the systems are daisy chained - serial. I doubt this is a "best practice" as I've managed to kill our route unexpectedly which causes all sorts of alarms to sound. It's quite exciting. So while TZ seems like a fine chart software, I'd prefer to just have the Furuno MFD displayed but I'm afraid to touch TZ.

Also, is normally run in "Course Up" mode but couldn't find it and I get tired of watching the screen swing in "Heading Up." So I'm running in North Up which is fine.

Thanks for passing time on my watch with me.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

What engine is in that boat? Do you think the 6.9 is close to SOW? That does seem to be a pretty slow pace for that boat.
FWIW, we average around 8kts while towing a 4500lb boat with only a bit more waterline.

We also ran at 8 to 8.5kts most of the time.

 

[twistedtree]

2am (what else is new?). Underway 6-1/2 days and covered 1031 nm. Toto: were a Long way from Kansas.

Right now, focus is on Gulf Stream (GS) and wind which is against the GS. We're about 160 nm from an anchorage near Key West where we'll drop a hook sometime around midnight tomorrow night and wait until daylight to enter Key West. We're all pretty eager to put this ride in the history books. I guess this is my last 2am watch.

PredictWind will have updated forecast by the time I finish this post. If winds are forecast much above 15-kts, we'll change course to due north to exit the GS pronto. Otherwise we'll ride the 2-kt bump for all we can. We placed bets on top SOG - I'm in at 9.0 kts. Owner is 8.6. Winner gets bragging rights. As an observation, while I love having access to currents' forecast, I have to wonder where the base data comes from. PW has two models for currents and they were pretty different, and I suspect neither is very accurate at the margins which is where you need it most.




View attachment 164009

This boat is setup with three 20" displays. It's been interesting (and perhaps a tad frustrating) to see how the displays are setup for each watch stander. I prefer the radar fairly zoomed in 8-nm slightly offset so there's 10-nm in front, 6-nm behind. My thinking is I really don't want to worry about anything that's more than an hour or so away, and I want to see any small stuff that wanders into my path (panga, though there have been none). I'll zoom out to 24-nm from time. We've been overtaken by a couple shops on my watch - as long as they're at least a mile away I'm good. Other watch standers keep the radar zoomed way out - 24-nm seems common. I have to wonder if the radar would display a panga at that zoom level? I also don't "tag" (aquire) many targets. Unless there's a reason (and boredom/curiosity qualifies as a reason), I won't tag anything that is more than an hour or so away. As good as radar is - and this is a decent tadar, there's quite a bit of distortion in displaying location - sort of a fun house mirror. At 20-nm, a ship might appear dead ahead but by the time it's 6-nm out, it will safely pass. No change in relative speed or bearing by either vessel, just the radar can't accurately discern some things at greater distances. So while it's nice to know there's a ship 20-nm dead ahead, no need to do a damn thing until it's much closer (and likely no action needed). Radar is great and AIS is great and there's a fair amount of functional overlap. But the data has to be treated differently - two known (AIS) locations can be accurately described. A distant radar reflection has very low accuracy. At least that's my thinking but perhaps I'm just lazy.

BTW - before anyone asks, center display is Furuno (slave to TZ). Right display is TimeZero which is master - Furuno MFD mirrors data off TZ but autopilot runs from Furuni MFD so the systems are daisy chained - serial. I doubt this is a "best practice" as I've managed to kill our route unexpectedly which causes all sorts of alarms to sound. It's quite exciting. So while TZ seems like a fine chart software, I'd prefer to just have the Furuno MFD displayed but I'm afraid to touch TZ.

Also, is normally run in "Course Up" mode but couldn't find it and I get tired of watching the screen swing in "Heading Up." So I'm running in North Up which is fine.

View attachment 164010

Thanks for passing time on my watch with me.

Peter

I agree with you on the radar range. It's occasionally interesting to look out to the horizon, but everything you need to pay attention to is much closer in. We run two radars, and I always have one on a 1-2NM range, then the other is set to a longer range depending on where we are. But 4 to 8NM would be typical.

What's the thinking behind having two slightly different chart displays?

 

[ranger58sb]

We only have one radar, but I can at least split the radar display into two segments... and then show one close in and the other further out. No clue about tweaking tuning for each, though. I suspect what we get is what we get.

We also usually split the charts display on the other MFD, ditto usually one close, one far. And/or sometimes, vector in one and raster in the other. Not the same as two larger displays, but it's all the screen real estate we have for flush mounts. In our case, it's an attempt to balance context against detail.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

What's the thinking behind having two slightly different chart displays?

The two chart displays was me. As mentioned, I'm a bit gun shy about touching the TZ display not because I don't like TZ (it seems to be a fine charting package) but because I don't want to touch it because it's daisy chained to the MFD which guides the A/P. Early in the run I managed to zap the route entirely. Gone (no way it could be me, right?). Had to be reconstructed. Something is not configured correctly. I've said for years there should be one system of record that is bullet proof and usable by all crew aboard. To their defense, the owner and wife do fine with the setup so maybe it's me.

At the risk of sounding petty, what's up with the facination wirh FLIR? The owners run it at night on the center screen (I change for my watch). Vaguely reminiscent of watching a test screen on an old TV. Outside of SAR recovery operations, how often would FLIR get used? Even at the lazy 7-kts we've been running, I don't see how it could be useful. But it is a cool gizmo - maybe that's enough to earn a spot in the pilot house.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

The two chart displays was me. As mentioned, I'm a bit gun shy about touching the TZ display not because I don't like TZ (it seems to be a fine charting package) but because I don't want to touch it because it's daisy chained to the MFD which guides the A/P. Early in the run I managed to zap the route entirely. Gone (no way it could be me, right?). Had to be reconstructed. Something is not configured correctly. I've said for years there should be one system of record that is bullet proof and usable by all crew aboard. To their defense, the owner and wife do fine with the setup so maybe it's me.

At the risk of sounding petty, what's up with the facination wirh FLIR? The owners run it at night on the center screen (I change for my watch). Vaguely reminiscent of watching a test screen on an old TV. Outside of SAR recovery operations, how often would FLIR get used? Even at the lazy 7-kts we've been running, I don't see how it could be useful. But it is a cool gizmo - maybe that's enough to earn a spot in the pilot house.

Peter

Was watching one of those MV Freedom vids and the guy said he was getting a bit sea sick on the overnight runs and adding a FLIR gave him the horizon to look at and it helped. I guess that could be one benifit? Maybe it could help to spot crab pots at night?

 

[mvweebles]

Was watching one of those MV Freedom vids and the guy said he was getting a bit sea sick on the overnight runs and adding a FLIR gave him the horizon to look at and it helped. I guess that could be one benifit? Maybe it could help to spot crab pots at night?

I'm pretty sure you could spot a crabpot but unless running at slow bells, doubt you do anything about it. I don't think you'd make it through the full exclamation of "OH SH....!!!" Even running during the day in light chop, spotting a float can be surprisingly difficult. But I'd be curious how actual owners of FLIR feel about them. They seem expensive, failure prone, and I'm just not sure of the overall usefulness. Topic for another thread I suppose.

Peter

 

[guy with a boat]

Peter, congrats on being on the home stretch. I hope the GS cooperates and doesn’t beat you up.
Multiple days in a boat without a break gets pretty tough for most of us. It also magnifies things that are easily overlooked for the first day or two. On that list (for me) are ways of running a boat that seem clearly suboptimal but are the other guys’ choice.
None of the radars I have had would give good close-range detail when set at 20+ miles. As you point out, there is very little useful info gained at the outside of those ranges.
Running at slow speed (not pointing any fingers) prolongs the fun but is hard to take when it makes a substantial difference in trip duration for no apparent gain. The range on that boat would likely let you run at 8Kts for the whole passage and turn around and do the return trip without fueling, so running slow seems to be a choice and not a necessity.
I’m with you on the FLIR. Some owners think those things give them superpowers. I can’t get a friend who has one to black out his pilothouse at night because he thinks the FLIR makes night vision unecessary. Not my preference or belief at all and I have a hard time with overnight trips on that boat.
Thanks for the great reports. I’m enjoying the story although happy to sit this one out.

 

[Blissboat]

Multiple days in a boat without a break gets pretty tough for most of us. It also magnifies things that are easily overlooked for the first day or two. On that list (for me) are ways of running a boat that seem clearly suboptimal but are the other guys’ choice.
Thanks for the great reports. I’m enjoying the story although happy to sit this one out.

Concur. After a while, even a large boat can start to feel small . . .

 

[Mac2]

Thanks for posting and the mentioned weather apps/info. I bought a FLIR primarily for the ship canal in Seattle. To many boats, kayaks etc run at night without lights. I also had the pleasure of running over an unlit gill net. Hasn’t been installed yet, so can’t verify how well it works.

 

[mvweebles]

The range on that boat would likely let you run at 8Kts for the whole passage and turn around and do the return trip without fueling, so running slow seems to be a choice and not a necessity.

I think it's easy to get stuck in a rut running a boat, especially a displacement boat. I know I run my boat at 1725 rpm and never really think about running any faster (though faster wouldn't add much speed because my waterline at 33-ft is pretty short). I forget exactly the exact engine displacement the Deere on this boat has, but I think the builders plaque is 8.1L 6-cyl. I forget what the N47s had in them but remember feeling they were a bit underpowered so just assumed this boat might be a bit slow too. But as you say, not my house, not my rules. I'm crew here. That said when I did longer runs as delivery skipper, I'd assemble a trip summary and observations including recommendation on engine RPM. Would be easier with the Maretron systems that are available today.

Well anchor at a small key (Boca Grande Key) and go into KW in the morning. Anchor down in about 2-hours. We're at the northern edge of the Gulf Stream and the afternoon winds are pressing 20-kts out of the east so directly against the stream so we're seeing short 5-6 footers just off the starboard bow. Has not phases the crew who are chit-chatting about where to eat in KW with abandon. Same seas at the beginning of the trip made us nervous. We've become accustomed.

Peter

 

[Blissboat]

Well anchor at a small key (Boca Grande Key) and go into KW in the morning. Anchor down in about 2-hours. We're at the northern edge of the Gulf Stream and the afternoon winds are pressing 20-kts out of the east so directly against the stream so we're seeing short 5-6 footers just off the starboard bow. Has not phases the crew who are chit-chatting about where to eat in KW with abandon. Same seas at the beginning of the trip made us nervous. We've become accustomed.

Peter

Yeah, at this point boisterous seas are probably no longer impressing that crew. Once the earth stops moving, you'll have no trouble at all finding good places to dine in Key West.

 

[Mac2]

At some point, when you’re well rested, it would be great to see the jackline(s) setup with life jacket attachment. Also, do you have a man overboard setup? Do you have jacklines at the stern for the man overboard rescue?

 

[Maldwin]

I agree that FLIR is oversold, but wonder if anyone has experience with SEA AI, or a similar system?

 

[mvweebles]

6:30 am. Anchored off Boca Grande Key, 10nm from Key West. My last trip report for this thread (though happy to answer questions). 1187nm. 7-days 2.5 hours. Right around 7-kts average speed. Around 900g diesel burned.

Amazingly, CBP checked us in without a video chat. Just accepted the submitted paperwork for four Americans, two Canadians, and two adorable puppies.

We had a fun debrief last night - surprises (that six people worked out so well), what would we do differently (a bit more safety prep - a MOB drill for example). And of course some self congratulatory compliments - recognition that running up the Caribbean Sea is a serious passage. It's not quite crossing the Atlantic or Pacific but it's so much more technical than running from Victoria BC to Ensenada MX, a similar distance.

I feel like it knocked a lot of rust off my capabilities and planted seeds for new growth. Perhaps as early as next year (and barring any other calamity as impediment), i'll do a similar run with Weebles, a far more daunting run which I will break into much smaller segments. I'll start tracking the weather further east on the Caribbean - Baraquilla Colombia to Jamaica is only 440nm so that looks enticing for Weebles. As much as I've relied on PredictWind, I want to get more familiar with the date inputs of forecasting. Job #1 will be getting more conversational with 500mb surface charts.

So that's it. For those who accompanied me these last couple weeks as we prepped and then made the journey, thanks for the encouragement and support. I enjoy writing and it's a treat to have an outlet. Kept me awake during my 2am watches and let me noodle through things.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks for the reports, Peter. That kinda trip is way out of our league, but it's nice to read other folks' adventures!

-Chris

 

[Jklotz]

I really enjoyed following along. Thanks for posting that, it was quite the journey!

 

[slowgoesit]

Peter, that jibs pretty much with what Muirgen did last year, almost the same time, from San Blas Islands to our new home here off the Caloosahatchee River. A little less than 1300 miles, 7.2kts average speed, 7 days, 12 hours, 510 gallons of diesel burned, (about 2.7 gph). Very similar conditions. Not comfortable, but not unsafe. Cats, (and us) were glad to complete it!
Congratulations! How long before you fly home?

 

[Diep]

Nothing to add but just want to say thanks for the postings. Entertaining and educational to listen in on.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, that jibs pretty much with what Muirgen did last year, almost the same time, from San Blas Islands to our new home here off the Caloosahatchee River. A little less than 1300 miles, 7.2kts average speed, 7 days, 12 hours, 510 gallons of diesel burned, (about 2.7 gph). Very similar conditions. Not comfortable, but not unsafe. Cats, (and us) were glad to complete it!
Congratulations! How long before you fly home?

I think our weather was probably a bit better than yours was Scot. We had a few days of 5-6 @ 5-7 seconds within a few points of the bow but even that wasn't awful. Towards the end of yesterday we had solid 6-footers with some 8-ft to keep us from getting complacent. Overall we're happy with how the weather worked out. This morning we're steaming towards Key West and the water is flat and emerald green.

The owners have no experience with East coast slips with tie-poles and short, fixed fingers. My experience is limited so I guess I'm lead crew. As the saying goes "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Arrrr....

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

Are they planning on going into a marina in Key West? Or anchoring out?

 

[ranger58sb]

The owners have no experience with East coast slips with tie-poles and short, fixed fingers. My experience is limited so I guess I'm lead crew. As the saying goes "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Arrrr....

Piece o'cake. Back in only as far as it takes to position the fattest part of the boat near the outer piles. Attach bow and spring lines to outer piles. Use a spring as a brake to keep from bashing the stern of the boat into the main dock. Clean the rest up afterwards. Voila!



-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

Are they planning on going into a marina in Key West? Or anchoring out?

Marina. Key Bight is $5/ft/day; $28/ft/wk. Far from cheap but a very cool place to hang for a bit.

We fly home to Tampa area on Friday. We've been gone a month and had a great time but duty calls. Sooner or later we need to fix our flood damaged house.

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

Wow! Actual length for our boat would be $310.00/day! Ouch . . . We'll anchor out, just off of Sigsbee mooring field, and suffer the dinghy ride in when we need it. . . total cost . . . Free Well, actually, the cost of fuel to and from, so say $2.00/day . . .

 

[mvweebles]

Wow! Actual length for our boat would be $310.00/day! Ouch . . . We'll anchor out, just off of Sigsbee mooring field, and suffer the dinghy ride in when we need it. . . total cost . . . Free Well, actually, the cost of fuel to and from, so say $2.00/day . . .

You have to ask yourself: when you're old and feeble and confined to a wheelchair with a colostomy bag tied to the armrest, do you want your last memory to be you saved a few hundred bucks by not being easy walking distance to Key West.

I gotta believe most folks on this list are going to die with money anyway. Coffins don't have pockets.

Easy for me to say. I'm crew.

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

You have to ask yourself: when you're old and feeble and confined to a wheelchair with a colostomy bag tied to the armrest, do you want your last memory to be you saved a few hundred bucks by not being easy walking distance to Key West.

I gotta believe most folks on this list are going to die with money anyway. Coffins don't have pockets.

Easy for me to say. I'm crew.

Peter

Peter, if I'm confined to a wheelchair, I wouldn't be WALKING anyway!
Bottom line, if we had to pay $5/foot/day, we couldn't afford boating.