Waiting for Weather in Panama (Lots of Pictures)

[cafesport]

Since there is a moon tonight you can just run night watch with a set of binos with a compass from the flybridge. Its amazing you much night vision you loose when running from inside the pilothouse. That red light on the mathers control should have a couple of layers of blue painters top over them.

 

[Blissboat]

Peter, with six people aboard how many watchstanders do you have, and how are you divvying up the watches? Hope the passage is continuing to go okay.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, with six people aboard how many watchstanders do you have, and how are you divvying up the watches? Hope the passage is continuing to go okay.

Watches are divided into 4-hour watches with two people on each watch. Two of the six do not have much experience so are split up .

Designing a watch schedule is such a personal thing. The owner and his wife cruise alone and like 4-hour watches. Cheryll and I find 4-hour watches at night difficult so night watches are 2-hours and I stand an extra watch.

The weather last night and into today has been excellent. We made the turn and are now travelling WNW towards Cancun area (we gave Nicaragua and Honduras a very wide berth) and expect a Sunday arrival, hopefully not too late in the day.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

Weather. Right now we're in the lee of Jamaica in flat seas and light winds. In a few hours we'll see mild seas in the 4-foot /5-sec range.

I've been using PredictWind for a couple years now and generally like it. Last year I splurged on the Pro subscription that includes currents ($500/yr.....ouch). This is a good example of showing value.

We can take a straightline to Isla Mujeres or we can take a course adjusted for current. Over three days it saves 3-hours. Not a huge deal except for this trip, means the difference between arriving Sunday 3pm and 6pm. And that's to the sea buoy - add another 45-60 minutes to get to the marina area (we'll probably end up anchoring for Sunday night anyway).

There are plenty of other weather products. Windy is a favorite of course and it's free. But of longer range complex passage planning, PredictWind gets my vote.

Peter

Pictures - first one shows the route selection. The red curved line is the PredictWind recommendation based on currents. Second picture shows the currents in the background - red is the Gulf stream.

 

[SteveK]

Peter, at night have you seen anything by eye worth a mention? Not radar or AIS.
What does your 4 hour watch involve. OK, I have done it, just curious how you spend the time. Guessing auto steers the boat.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, at night have you seen anything by eye worth a mention? Not radar or AIS.
What does your 4 hour watch involve. OK, I have done it, just curious how you spend the time. Guessing auto steers the boat.

We've seen a handful of ships. This afternoon we passed a 45-foot fishing boat towing a pair of jonboat type skiffs. Yesterday there were a few small squalls (attached pic - radar target (1-O'Clock on radar) and squall on distant horizon). We do an engine room check every couple hours. Yesterday we changed one of the Racor fuel filters.

My wife and I stand watch from 2 until 6 (both morning and afternoon). For us, one stands watch while the other sleeps. She was a bit seasick the last couple days so I stood the entire watch last night but normally we split the time. I mentioned one of the couples doesn't have much experience so there is always someone on the pilothouse with them.

I listen to podcasts at night. Last night I listened to an interesting 6-part podcast called "The Good Whale" which is the story behind the Orca Whale featured in Free Willie movie. It was surprisingly good.

Today I spent a couple hours contacting marinas in Mexico . My Spanish isn't great so it's slow translating Whatsapp messages. The owner is savvy with weather and route planning but likes to discuss and have a second opinion. We met them last year at an anchorage in Central Mexico when my wife and I were puttering with our dinghy. I saw the Nordhavn and knocked on the hull as an interdiction (old school).

Almost everything has AIS (well the 45-foot fishing boat didn't). We're still running with AIS turned off (though we have receive capabilities via Internet resources). As crew it's not my call but I'm my opinion there's a slight safety penalty to running dark. Let's face it - the overwhelming majority of boats are not bad actors. During my watch yesterday there was a tanker crossing in front of us who I hailed to establish crossing agreement. He had to double check our position, speed, bearing because we were running dark. I'm fine with dark in a hot zone but we're a long way from that. But I'm crew - not my call.

Hope I answered the questions.

Peter

 

[Larry M]

Peter: Have you seen any pangas or that type? We’ve seen them 50 miles off shore with nothing more but a vhf,

 

[mvweebles]

Were a LOT further than 50 nms offshore. Pangas have been spotted to almost 100 NMS off Nicaragua and Honduras.

Sunset this evening

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

2am, the beginning of our watch (my wife and I). Normally she stays asleep for a couple hours so it's nice to have the company in the pilot house.

Seas became bumpy yesterday evening and remain so. Light wind yet there is short swell around 5'/5s from off the bow plus some confusion. No spray over the bow, just bumpy enough that moving around the boat requires a firm grip. Taking a leak (seated, of course) requires some athleticism that has long ago left me.

We've changed our destination. A friend who recently checked into Isla Mujeres was rousted for their freezer full of meat and liquor cabinet including a fair amount of wine. They own a very nice 80-foot motor yacht so guessing the possible loss was not trivial. Apparently there is an obscure Mexican regulation that boats entering from south/central America require a fumigation certificate which I doubt many bother with but for whatever reason this particular customs officer wanted it. At any rate, for our owner, that possible experience coupled with uncertain weather delay means we are headed for Cape Antonio, the western tip of Cuba, and will spend a day at Dry Tortugas National Park before headed to Key West where we will depart. Around 1100 NMS total distance to Dry Tortugas. I've lost track of the number of days but I think it's around seven.

Winds are forecast to pickup a bit overnight so a bit bumpier but should moderate once we're in the lee of Cuba. Outside of regurgitating info from apps like windy or PredictWind I've been unable to actually forecast weather or understand why the seas build when there is no pressure gradient. West Coast US is so easy.

Peter

 

[Blissboat]

Four hours on watch (with eight off to look forward to) is quite tolerable as long as someone is around to share the experience and relieve you for a few minutes now and then to get a sandwich, use the loo, etc. Even if that person isn't a well-qualified watchstander, they can be helpful while learning in the process.

Too bad you'll have to miss out on a stop at Isla Mujeres. If your informant's experience is the norm, that has to be weighed in the decision matrix. Also in the matrix is the state of international relations at present. I suppose some Mexican customs and immigration officials might feel entitled to amuse themselves at the expense of wealthy (or at least wealthy-looking) yanquis traveling in nice yachts. Sad, but you're lucky that boat and crew have enough endurance so that bypassing Mexico is even an option at this point during the passage.

The weather in the western Caribbean can indeed be confounding. I once delivered a 40' sailboat from Tampa to the Caymans via the Yucatan Channel, and after rounding Cape San Antonio spent four days bashing to weather against the tradewind. So okay, no big surprise there, but several weeks later I made the same trip in the opposite direction, expecting a nice downwind sleigh ride with the wind over my shoulder. Nope. Got beaten up all over again, then had to put into Cozumel to wait out an unseasonable cold front with strong northwesterlies. Must say I spent a delightful few days at what was then called Club Nautico de Cozumel, which now appears to go by Puerto de Abrigo. The customs guys were perfectly friendly and hospitable, but I guess those were different times.

The Dry Tortugas will be a wonderful respite after your romp across the Caribbean and then another upwind slog once you leave the Yucatan Channel and shape a new course to the NE. You may be tempted to spend more than just a day - I could hang out on the hook at Ft. Jefferson for weeks (assuming the contents of my freezer and liquor cabinet remained unmolested)! What a stunningly beautiful place.

 

[slowgoesit]

Peter, We've been following this, and I have a few questions. You state that your AIS is off, but you are able to populate the display from other internet based sources . . . . Does the AIS not allow you to turn off just transmit, but still receive AIS info from other boats?

Also, will you attempt to check in to the US via CB Roam prior to getting to the Dry Tortugas. We bypassed the DT's coming from Panama, because we heard Customs didn't like to clear people in at a destination that didn't have any Customs presence, but don't have any first hand knowledge of that. I also read that stopping at DT's, and actually going ashore can get you in hot water, especially if/when you tell Customs that the last point of land contact was in the US. I guess they're concerned with boat to boat transfer of "stuff" at the DT's. I'd be interested in your thought process and experience there.

Thirdly, at least for us and Courage, the 43' sailboat that was about a day behind us, the sea conditions once we exited the Northbound Traffic Separation Lane around Cape Antonio, really went to ****. It didn't affect us as badly as it did Courage, but they reported that they had the crap pounded out of them until rather close to Fort Myers.

Sorry you guys didn't get to go to Isla Mujeres. We really wanted to go there as well, but for us, we had a limited Wx window to get to Florida before it turned to crap. As it was, we got some it anyway. The cats were ready to jump ship when we got into sight of land in Florida! 7.5 days out of sight of land was an interesting experience. We're not offshore cruisers, and this was a first for us!

 

[mvweebles]

Hey Scot. Good questions. .

AIS. Owner tells me there is not a separate off setting for transmit. On his project list is to install a manual switch but it didn't get done before this run. He has PredictWind Data Hub which provides over-the-horizon AIS as long as we have Internet. Starlink has been rock solid.

Good feedback on CBP. If they won't clear us I suppose we'll just head to Key West. I'll let you know how it goes.

Our plan for west tip of Cuba (Cape Antonio) is to stay in the lee of Cuba on approach and hug the northbound traffic separation lane. Right now, winds are roughly out of the NE and not forecast to be very strong so although they are against the Gulf Stream, shouldn't be a problem. That said, today's weather was for light winds and it's currently blowing close to 20. As long as winds are less than about 15-kts coming around Cape Antonio I think we're fine. 17-22 or so and it will be bumpy but doable. Higher than that and it will really suck for at least a half dozen hours. Plan would be to hug coast of Cuba and buy some time. I've attached the Current map off Windy showing the Gulf Stream is relatively north on the channel. For those unfamiliar, I've also attached a picture of the West end of Cuba (Cape Antonio).

Peter

 

[lwarden]

Although I suspect you guys are really looking forward to getting off the boat for a bit I found Isla Mujeres to be a bit of tourist trap. There are quite a few good places to have margaritas and chips and guac, but it's overrun with day trippers from Cancun. Interested to hear about your experience on the Dry Tortugas.

 

[slowgoesit]

From where you are, I'd be totally comfortable turning the AIS back on, but it's the Skipper's call. We didn't find the traffic to be that congested in the Yucatan Channel, but since we were so close to Cuba (about 5 miles offshore) and we were in the Traffic Separation Lane, we preferred to have the AIS on at that point. Once we rounded the Cape, we hugged the shore, well, about 10 miles out, heading East until we were crossing the Gulf Stream on a more direct crossing.
Once you get around the corner, you will have the waves out of the North, today 2', 4 seconds, building to 4', 4 seconds tomorrow, then 4' 5 seconds on Sunday, all out of the North. . . . . Forecast . . . .
Once they drop you off, do they plan on staying in Key West for awhile, or heading North? Route? East via Hawks Channel off the Keys, or farther offshore, or NE across the Gulf to Fort Myers and Caloosahatchee Canal?
If they come through the Canal, they can tie to the dock if you give us a day or so notice.
Safe travels!

 

[mvweebles]

From where you are, I'd be totally comfortable turning the AIS back on, but it's the Skipper's call. We didn't find the traffic to be that congested in the Yucatan Channel, but since we were so close to Cuba (about 5 miles offshore) and we were in the Traffic Separation Lane, we preferred to have the AIS on at that point. Once we rounded the Cape, we hugged the shore, well, about 10 miles out, heading East until we were crossing the Gulf Stream on a more direct crossing.
Once you get around the corner, you will have the waves out of the North, today 2', 4 seconds, building to 4', 4 seconds tomorrow, then 4' 5 seconds on Sunday, all out of the North. . . . . Forecast . . . .
Once they drop you off, do they plan on staying in Key West for awhile, or heading North? Route? East via Hawks Channel off the Keys, or farther offshore, or NE across the Gulf to Fort Myers and Caloosahatchee Canal?
If they come through the Canal, they can tie to the dock if you give us a day or so notice.
Safe travels!

Above I mentioned making VHF passing arrangements with a ship. They took a few minutes to do the math on our boat since we weren't running AIS. Scot, really changed my thinking on running AIS-dark. My current thinking is if you have AIS, you better have a damn good reason to turn it off. Granted there isn't much going out here in the middle of the Caribbean but still - I sorta feel like it's a bit selfish. That said, as you noted, I'm crew and it's not my call. But since this is sort of a "Dear Diary" bear-all post, I wanted to share for others since the topic of running dark comes up from time to time.

The boat is headed up the east coast to be north of wherever they need to be to satisfy insurance for hurricane season June 1. I believe they'll stop in Key West for at least a few days. Cheryll and I will fly home from KW within a day or two of arrival - we've been gone for almost a month!

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

Peter, I agree with you re/ AIS. Many boaters want others to broadcast, but don't want to do so themselves . . . but benefit from others broadcasting.
We leave our AIS on anytime while underway, unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as the encounter we had near Thunder Knoll, 140 miles off of the Nicaragua/Honduras border. Glad you guys avoided that area!

 

[mvweebles]

2am and I'm starting my watch. We left Panama last Monday and have laid down 725 NMS since with an average speed of 6.9 kts. We passed Cayman Island yesterday evening though at 30 miles off, was only visible on radar. But it's the closest to land we've been by far. Seas were very choppy without explanation except that we were passing over a deep canyon called the Cayman Trough. I think someone up thread mentioned this. It definitely rattled the dishes and such. Shepherds Pie ended up partially on the oven floor but was sure tasty.

We called CPB yesterday to see if we could check in via the app and stop at Dry Tortugas - @slowgoesit mentioned there may be some issues. For us there are issues - two dogs aboard (adorable critters) and two Canadians (also adorable). CBP asked that we check in at Key West so that's now our destination.

When we arrive in Key West we'll have gone 7-days and around 1300 NMS. For comparison, the Nordhavn 57 I delivered in 2004 from Dana Point to Ft Lauderdale made the last leg (Colon to Ft Lauderdale - just shy of 1500 NMS) in the same time and burned just a smidgeon more fuel yet covered in 7-days what the N55 will take 8-daya. The N55 is a nice roomy boat - quite a bit larger than the N57. But the N57 is a relative speedster.

We are 200 NMS from Cape San Antonio, the western tip of Cuba. We'll get there in 30-hours, roughly daybreak on Sunday.

Peter

PICTURES: Still working through the last bit of our route after rounding west Cuba. If the winds are strong, we'll cross the Gulf Stream as quickly as possible. If not, we'll angle across it and ride the current. Second pic is a screenshot of currents odd Windy. Last pic is pilothouse and moon over Caribbean. Bit blurry (it's dark) but you get the idea.

 

[mvweebles]

Four hours on watch (with eight off to look forward to) is quite tolerable as long as someone is around to share the experience and relieve you for a few minutes now and then to get a sandwich, use the loo, etc. Even if that person isn't a well-qualified watchstander, they can be helpful while learning in the proces

My wife and I split our morning watch (2-6am). As I write this, it's almost 3am and she's asleep on the settee here in the pilothouse. At some point I'll get tired and wake her up and she'll assume the watch and I'll go to sleep.

It's difficult to describe just how far away from anything we are right now. In my opinion, "watching" isn't a constant attention thing like it is when driving a car. I wouldn't leave the helm long enough to make a cup of coffee, but no problem leaving long enough to grab a soda out of the fridge or take a leak. Engine room checks are at watch changes.

I find a 4-hour watch long. Really long. As a matter of fact, I think it's better thought of as a 240-minute watch. I like chatting with cruising couples to see how they divide watches. Everyone is different. I one met a very experienced couple - he was a retired fireman, she a retired ER nurse. Both had a lifetime of working long shifts, often overnight. She more or less stood the entire night, he the entire day.

Peter

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. mv. Absolutely wonderful adventure!

 

[heysteve]

You might see the MV CHIPOLBROK MOON in the next day or so as it's currently heading towards the west end of Cuba. This is the Cross Shipping transport boat that left Port Everglades yesterday and will eventually pick up our boat in La Paz and deliver it to Victoria. The only way to "bash" north!

 

[guy with a boat]

I was on two different multi-day passages recently, one was with 2-hr shifts and one was 4-hr. I was surprised to find that I like the 4-hr watches.
A 2-hr watch during the night always feels like an interruption to my sleep, and a bit of a slog. The 4-hr watch is long enough to start off with a coffee, and somehow feels more like a day of its own. It also (usually) allows everyone to have longer periods of uninterrupted sleep, which is a big bonus in my case.
There were 3 of us on the trip with the longer watches, and we still each got plenty of sleep.
Thanks for the interesting and entertaining reports on your journey.

 

[mvweebles]

I was on two different multi-day passages recently, one was with 2-hr shifts and one was 4-hr. I was surprised to find that I like the 4-hr watches.
A 2-hr watch during the night always feels like an interruption to my sleep, and a bit of a slog. The 4-hr watch is long enough to start off with a coffee, and somehow feels more like a day of its own. It also (usually) allows everyone to have longer periods of uninterrupted sleep, which is a big bonus in my case.
There were 3 of us on the trip with the longer watches, and we still each got plenty of sleep.
Thanks for the interesting and entertaining reports on your journey.

Many of my long deliveries were with myself and one crew and ended up being 5-7 days. I was 20-25 years younger then. 3-hour watches at night which was tough. I wonder if insurance would permit short handed deliveries these days. I wouldn't blame them if they said no.

Three people is a dream. I like 3-hour watches as everyone gets a six hour break which is enough.

If I were to do long international deliveries again, I'd carry three crew and only stand a minimal watch leaving the bulk of the watch standing to crew. Keeping the boat running, making berthing arrangements, agents, weather routing, and such kept me pretty busy. Plus the on-call nature of being the captain - last night I had been dead asleep for all of 45-mins when my wife woke me for advice on passing arrangements with a ship.

Good conversation. Very personal decision making.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

2am Sunday. We've traveled 897 NMS from Panama and are 50 NMS from Cape San Antonio, the western tip of Cuba. According to TimeZero, our average speed remains 6.9 it's or around 165 NMS per day. Definitely the tortoise in the race.

We had a great run yesterday afternoon and into the early evening (pic is sunset from 7pm last night). Unfortunately overnight the winds have picked up to the high teens with gusts in the low-mid 20s about 30-degrees off our starboard bow. Enough to kick up 4-feet of tight wind chop though it was higher at some point during the night as it influenced some bizarre dream sequences. Winds should die down shortly after daybreak when we round the tip of Cuba. Somewhat opposite of the Pacific coast of California with which I'm so familiar, the diurnal wind patterns here encourage nighttime winds.

@heysteve - I must have slept through the passing of your delivery shop as I see it's now off Cayman.

Boat is running fine. Racor that was changed a few days ago is fine - really nothing to report.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

What's the thinking around the selection of the boat's speed? Total fuel burn? Range? Comfort?

On a longer passage I lean towards running as fast as I can, provided I have the range. That's just to get it over with.

 

[mvweebles]

What's the thinking around the selection of the boat's speed? Total fuel burn? Range? Comfort?

On a longer passage I lean towards running as fast as I can, provided I have the range. That's just to get it over with.

I don't know the answer to this. Owner runs at 1650 rpm which is just under 5.5gph according to Maretron sensors. Engine load is pretty light - maybe 40%. 7.1 knots so around 1.0 S/L (49-ft LWL assumed for ease of math).

I think you used to have a N60 which is roughly the same hull. How did you run it?

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I don't know the answer to this. Owner runs at 1650 rpm which is just under 5.5gph according to Maretron sensors. Engine load is pretty light - maybe 40%. 7.1 knots so around 1.0 S/L (49-ft LWL assumed for ease of math).

I think you used to have a N60 which is roughly the same hull. How did you run it?

Peter

Based on that I'd think you could be running as much as a knot faster without pushing the boat (given adequate fuel range). Of course, that's provided the sea state isn't slowing you down too much and doesn't cause any uncomfortable motion with a speed increase.

 

[mvweebles]

It's been a long time since I've run a bunch of different boats but generally used to run at just under 1.2 S/L which would be around 8-kts on this N55. I would think fuel consumption would jump to around 6-1/2 gph. That said, some engines have a sweet spot where it just purrs - could balance a nickel on the header tank.

We did slow up for a couple hours last night at the request of the admiral.

The owner and I were just chatting about our respective weather forecasting accuracy on this run. I'd grade my paper at a C, perhaps a C+. Big picture was fine. But granular forecasting was iffy.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

It's been a long time since I've run a bunch of different boats but generally used to run at just under 1.2 S/L which would be around 8-kts on this N55. I would think fuel consumption would jump to around 6-1/2 gph. That said, some engines have a sweet spot where it just purrs - could balance a nickel on the header tank.

We did slow up for a couple hours last night at the request of the admiral.

The owner and I were just chatting about our respective weather forecasting accuracy on this run. I'd grade my paper at a C, perhaps a C+. Big picture was fine. But granular forecasting was iffy.

Peter

What are you using for weather forecasts?

 

[Blissboat]

We had a great run yesterday afternoon and into the early evening (pic is sunset from 7pm last night). Unfortunately overnight the winds have picked up to the high teens with gusts in the low-mid 20s about 30-degrees off our starboard bow. Enough to kick up 4-feet of tight wind chop though it was higher at some point during the night as it influenced some bizarre dream sequences.

Very similar to my experience of those waters. I felt kind of robbed, feeling like I was entitled to expect a relatively easy downwind run. But I've been robbed by the weather before.

By this hour (11:30 AM) you've probably emerged from the lee of Cape San Antonio. Could you smell the verdant soil and vegetation of Cuba? Hope the next leg is easy.

Really regret that you won't be able to stop and break up your passage at the Dry Tortugas. Once you get your own Weebles to the west coast of Florida, that will be a nice destination for you to explore, in case you have not already been, and maybe even if you have already been. For me, the Ft. Jefferson experience never seems to get old.

Approaching Key West from the west (as if coming in from the Tortugas) you would typically cross Rebecca Shoal Channel and pass south of the Marquesas Keys, then enter KW harbor via Sand Key Channel. The run along the bank through the Key West National Wildlife Refuge is calm and beautiful. However, I always get beaten up crossing the Rebecca Shoal Channel from west to east. YMMV, but the prevailing wind is on the nose and the current is always to some degree counter to the wind. If you're not in the mood for several hours of rolling and plunging through a short, steep chop, go around the north side of the Dry Tortugas, stay north of the Marquesas and enter Key West via Northwest Channel. It's less scenic, but more comfortable, and you'll arrive in KW close to the decent marinas.

 

[ksanders]

Peter, your experience here is invaluable.

Seeing your route planning, it's easy to see why boats in the coastal cruiser category like mine end up "stuck" on the eastern shore of Panama.

We just don't have the range or seakeeping capability to safely navigate the geopolitical realities of Central America