Victron SmartSolar Charge Controller MPPT 100/30 Failure!

[slowgoesit]

Today, I went into the engine room of our boat to get a tool . . . there was a distinct smell of something electrical overheating in the air . . . Put the old sniffer to work. The smell was coming from a Victron SmartSolar Charge Controller (one of 8 installed). (See pics)

• The body of controller # 5 was noticeably warm to the tough, VERY warm, almost hot, especially when compared to the other 7 controllers.
• The input (+) wire from the solar panel (though the circuit breaker) was discolored, and almost burned my fingers when I touched it!
• I checked my phone, and through the Bluetooth connection, I verified that the solar panel connected to this connection (# 5 of 8) was generating 219 watts, about 60.8% of the rating of the panel, at 360 watts.
• I next tripped circuit breakers on the inlet and outlet side of the Solar Charge Controller, isolating the Controller from any electrical power input, either from the panel, or from the battery bus.
• I noticed that the fastening screw was discolored, and underneath, where the wire terminated into the controller, it showed signs of overheating, melting of the case, and the case itself was split from the heat.
• Not sure what exactly was going on, but I checked the security of the wire attachments screws, all four of them on this controller, and 28 eight others on the other 7 controllers, and all were secure.
• The output wire (+) from the controller to the battery bus, as well as both ground (-) wires were cool to the touch.
• I suspect an internal failure of the unit, in the area where the input (+) wire from the solar panel attaches.

I removed the controller from my "Blue Wall", took pics, and contacted the vendor I'd purchased the controller from on 26 April, 2022. They responded within two hours, requesting pics of the damage, as well as the data plate with p/n and s/n. The RMA representative responded quickly stating that they had forwarded it to Victron for action, but agreed with me that it appeared to be a failure, interior to the controller, and that a replacement controller would be shipped out under warranty, as soon as Victron approved the replacement. Hopefully it will continue to go smoothly. This is the first issue I've had with the controllers, which have been in continuous use since installation in May of 2022. Overall, I've been very pleased with our Victron products.

Thankfully there was no other damage to the boat from this failure. I'll only have to replace the controller, and I'm replacing the wire due to the overheating it was subjected to. I'm not sure how far this could have gone if not found when it was.
So as a cautionary lesson, if you have Solar panels, regardless of the brand, I would recommend periodic inspection of all components and connections.

Fair winds and following seas!

 

[BruceK]

Threads involving Victron draw the ire of certain members who report negative experience. Mine, involving 2 controllers, is ok, except for one connecting wire becoming inexplicably loose.
If it helps, I was last charged $150 AUD per hour by a competent qualified electrician. We don`t have ABYC.

 

[NoRain]

This is a well known “problem”. If you search the Victron forum you’ll see a lot of heated (hah) postings about this.

Your situation may be different, but the common problem is related to the screw attachment technology for the wiring. Quite a history of people with issues of the connection loosening and creating this overheating problem.

One takeaway is that it is *critical* these connections are torqued to correct specs. That plus using ferrules for the connections. I use ferrules (a hotly debated topic on its own) but based on the controversy I purchased a torque screwdriver and used it on my Orion XS install. Short answer I was absolutely blown away as to how tight you actually had to tighten them to meet the torque spec. WAYYY more than I would have ever done on my own just using a screwdriver. And I’m intimately familiar with Farmer Tight, Logger Tight, and Fishboat Tight.

 

[DDW]

My strong guess is high resistance connection at the terminal, leading to overheating. I've seen it many times on those types of clamp connectors. Like NoRain says, they have to be tight! Not just Victron either, have burnt some on Mastervolt equipment as well.

 

[Frosty]

As @NoRain mentioned, this is (unfortunately) a known issue.

I have to say, this is my least favorite thing about Victron. WHYYYYYYYY with these stupid push in and screw down connectors? Not only can they cause this sort of issue, but they totally limit the wire size and the angle at which you can make connections. I hate them!

Okay :deep breath: I have found that the best way to (help) combat the issue is to use ferrules on the wires going into the connections. You still want to torque them down precisely, but they "stick" in that value much better, IME. With wire (even the exact wire they spec, such as fine-stranded Ancor), I find that they just keep shifting. Meaning, the strands continue to "arrange" themselves and things loosen up over time, then resistance, heat, and your situation.

I also bought a small torque screwdriver (yup, just for Victron), and have found that the specified torque is much more than I would have applied otherwise.

Coincidental, but I just had my (ventilated) cover panel off the area with one of my Victron solar controllers and re-checked the torque: rock solid. I had gone in and changed them to ferrules last spring, plus torqued the tiny screws to Victron's spec with the torque screwdriver.

Note that this can mean you either cannot use the max size wire for the "hole"; or, you can remove a few strands from just that last bit of the wire and use the next size down ferrule. I did this for my small (75/15) controller because its max wire size is 10AWG and I didn't want to either go down to 12AWG, or have yet another set of connections at a power post. So I removed a few strands and used a #12 ferrule. I reasoned that my wire size was for voltage drop, not ampacity, and plus the ferrule itself somewhat "replaces" some wire thickness.

Still hate those connections though.
********
Side note: I'm about to hate them MORE. Bought a Victron inverter so I'll be using 1/0 cables and OF COURSE they are push in terminals (that come straight out from the end, not down) so the inverter will necessarily take up a huge amount of extra space just for that. If only they were posts, I could send the wires off at a 90º angle no problem. GRRRR.

********

 

[Frosty]

If you are interested, I went with a "square" ferrule crimper (vs. a hexagon) because it seemed to better match the clamps on the Victron solar controllers. I got a Knipex 97 53 04 (this style has the wire come in from the side and go across; I also tried the Knipex ones that come in from the end, and their rotating one which will do either; but found this style the handiest to use).

I also tried an "iCrimp" square ferrule crimper (cheaper) and it seemed to do a reasonable job, albeit maybe it took a bit more force and it only went up to 10AWG (Knipex goes to 6AWG).

I think that something like the Orion XS might do better with a hexagonal crimp ferrule, but I didn't use ferrules there because I used the max wire size (4AWG) and the Orion has a different clamp design that seems to "stick" better (or maybe it also has to do with the larger size wire).

 

[Delta Riverat]

They save space and look cool. Euro style!

 

[lwarden]

Sorry you had this issue Scot.

Yeah, count me in on the bashing of Victron over these wire connections. Both the screw terminals used in the Orion and the AC input/output push-in terminals in the Multiplus II leave a lot to be desired. As @Frosty commented on, ferrules are the way to go, but the wire diameter for the Orion suggested by Victron does not fit with a ferrule, so I went naked on that one. The suggestion of pulling a few strands and dropping down a gauge on the ferrules is probably a good compromise. I really don't like using a slotted set screw for any torque applications, they should be socket hex or torx.

There are many threads over on the Victron forum on the AC push-in types having issues and burning up units. Victron is also wishy washy on recommending ferrules despite what the terminal manufacture (Phoenix Contact) states about them. Victron really needs to do better in this area. I would like to see ring terminal for any high current connections. Yes, they are bigger, but also much safer and more foolproof IMO.

 

[Frosty]

@lwarden
Thanks for mentioning Phoenix Contact. I knew "phoenix" as the name for the green connector blocks that are in some Victron (and other) products, but had never looked up their website. I now see they make ferrules too.

Plus now I have a cool ferrule poster Won't be taping it up on the shop wall, like ye old days, but still fun to look at.

In case anyone else wants to get nerdy: (Link to one page, 960kb "poster" on ferrules.)

https://assets.phoenixcontact.com/file/257a95b8-0ae0-4b65-8476-514c169bc2ba/media/original?1540293_EN_Aderendhuelsen_LoRes.pdf

 

[DDW]

Victron provides some wiring with ferrules installed. These came on the 18g power cable wires provided with the last Cerbo GX I bought. Unfortunately, the ferrules they installed were too short to catch the push-in latch and would pop back out again on their own. I had to cut them off and install longer ones. So maybe Victron doesn't really understand the concept.

 

[Frosty]

Victron provides some wiring with ferrules installed. These came on the 18g power cable wires provided with the last Cerbo GX I bought.

They have also always (at least since the BMV 600) come on the included power cable/temp sensor ends that go into the BMV shunt (also very small wire - maybe even smaller than 18AWG, not sure). Those stay in though. Go figure.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I don't know why they do that boxed in clamp thing. They are very popular and I've worked with them for years in automation equipment. But that is far removed from close proximity to 2 large diesels. The contact surfaces are smooth, not much gripping power and since the wire can't exceed the clamp it's like the clamp is trying to press the wire out.

 

[Bud]

Today, I went into the engine room of our boat to get a tool . . . there was a distinct smell of something electrical overheating in the air . . . Put the old sniffer to work. The smell was coming from a Victron SmartSolar Charge Controller (one of 8 installed). (See pics)

• The body of controller # 5 was noticeably warm to the tough, VERY warm, almost hot, especially when compared to the other 7 controllers.
• The input (+) wire from the solar panel (though the circuit breaker) was discolored, and almost burned my fingers when I touched it!
• I checked my phone, and through the Bluetooth connection, I verified that the solar panel connected to this connection (# 5 of 8) was generating 219 watts, about 60.8% of the rating of the panel, at 360 watts.
• I next tripped circuit breakers on the inlet and outlet side of the Solar Charge Controller, isolating the Controller from any electrical power input, either from the panel, or from the battery bus.
• I noticed that the fastening screw was discolored, and underneath, where the wire terminated into the controller, it showed signs of overheating, melting of the case, and the case itself was split from the heat.
• Not sure what exactly was going on, but I checked the security of the wire attachments screws, all four of them on this controller, and 28 eight others on the other 7 controllers, and all were secure.
• The output wire (+) from the controller to the battery bus, as well as both ground (-) wires were cool to the touch.
• I suspect an internal failure of the unit, in the area where the input (+) wire from the solar panel attaches.

I removed the controller from my "Blue Wall", took pics, and contacted the vendor I'd purchased the controller from on 26 April, 2022. They responded within two hours, requesting pics of the damage, as well as the data plate with p/n and s/n. The RMA representative responded quickly stating that they had forwarded it to Victron for action, but agreed with me that it appeared to be a failure, interior to the controller, and that a replacement controller would be shipped out under warranty, as soon as Victron approved the replacement. Hopefully it will continue to go smoothly. This is the first issue I've had with the controllers, which have been in continuous use since installation in May of 2022. Overall, I've been very pleased with our Victron products.

Thankfully there was no other damage to the boat from this failure. I'll only have to replace the controller, and I'm replacing the wire due to the overheating it was subjected to. I'm not sure how far this could have gone if not found when it was.
So as a cautionary lesson, if you have Solar panels, regardless of the brand, I would recommend periodic inspection of all components and connections.

Fair winds and following seas!

We look at our electrical systems, especially our two solar systems with a Thermal camera and take a picture for reference. We take a picture of the Victron blue tooth app display for the unit also and save them together. This is by far the best tool for identifying poor connections that can drop voltage and cause excessive heat. A couple of caveats 1) unit must be on and in use drawing a normal amount of current when looked at thermally. 2) It measures heat but like a moisture meter we need a reference, so thats where the camera/pictures come in by comparing. In your case you have several identical units so comparing the image of one to another would show that bad connection pretty easily. The cameras used to be pricey, now there are some reasonable priced ones available. ( I bought this one a year ago )

Amazon.com

Bud

 

[Insequent]

I have 4 Victron solar controllers, the 100/50 model, so larger fastening screws etc.

Each has 2 x 65 Voc panels in parallel with 8 ga wiring to the controllers, and 6 ga wire to the HD 12V busbar. I had not routinely checked connections since install, a few years ago. In view of post #1 (quite scary!) i went and checked this morning. All tight, but I ordered a torque screwdriver which will arrive in a day or two and I'll then torque the screws to spec. Really glad I read this thread!

 

[rslifkin]

I've never torqued those terminals to spec, but on all of my Victron gear with similar terminals, I tighten them to the point where trying to get any tighter with a properly sized flat head screwdriver would just strip the slot in the screw. In other words, not just snug, but TIGHT.

 

[slowgoesit]

• I am a firm believer in ferrules, but given that I would have had to shave a few strands off to fit, as discussed above, I just used the bare wires.
• I don't have a torque screwdriver, but use an inch lb torque wrench with screw bits, and you're correct, they take a LOT more torque than you would expect!
• I don't have a thermal camera, but do have IR thermometers, but I wanted to get the power turned off immediately, so I didn't use them. In retrospect, I wish I had, for no other reason than to have more data points.
• The vendor sent me a follow-up today, that they are still waiting on Victron for approval of the return. I will have to pay return shipping cost . . . kind of weird, as I've never paid return shipping before . . . .
• I've already purchased a replacement Charge Controller from PKYS.com. Different vendor from original, but will install that when it comes, and put the warrantied one (hopefully) into stores . . . or maybe buy that 120 watt panel as Brian suggested!
• I've had no issues at all with the original vendor, but just tend to buy all Victron items from PKYS now, as Peter Kennedy has always had my back!

If this thread assists anyone in preventing a problem, it will have shown it's worth! I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[twistedtree]

It will be interesting to see if Victron warrants this, or if they blame it on improper installation/torque.

 

[NoRain]

You all may remember this topic was extremely thoroughly covered a while back 2nd start of fire in electrical equipment, what are your experiences ?. A lot of reading but it is what ultimately lead to me getting the torque screwdriver I referenced above, both styles of ferrules and crimpers (square and hex) and using them on my Orion and everywhere else they may be relevant.

 

[Mac2]

You all may remember this topic was extremely thoroughly covered a while back 2nd start of fire in electrical equipment, what are your experiences ?. A lot of reading but it is what ultimately lead to me getting the torque screwdriver I referenced above, both styles of ferrules and crimpers (square and hex) and using them on my Orion and everywhere else they may be relevant.

Do you use shrink tube on the ferrule? I just started using the ferrules on my Victron project. The plastic end cap portion of the ferrule is oversized for the wire. Seemed more natural to squeeze in some superglue gel in that space to connect end cap to wire casing. After crimping thousands of electrical connections, the ferrule crimper was way to easy. Without the aching hand, it didn’t give me confidence the crimp was firm enough (not even after the pull test).

 

[NoRain]

Not normally. Ferrules are different than normal crimp connectors (except butt connectors) in that once connected the wire is not pulling against the connector - it is being held in by the screw terminal ie the terminal squishes the wire and the ferrule.

 

[slowgoesit]

Good news! The vendor e-mailed me today. Victron approved the replacement Solar Charge Controller under warranty, it should go out today. The do request that I destroy the old unit, and state that the failed SN can not be replaced again under warranty . . . well, duh. Anyway, I may tear it apart, I mean destroy it after I receive the new one, just to see if I can figure out what exactly failed. . . .

Correction, it will go out FedEx tomorrow, not today . . .

 

[twistedtree]

Great news. I'd love to see dissection photos.

 

[l00smarble]

I've tried to autopsy one and it isn't really possible as it is fully potted inside.

 

[SteveK]

Good news! The vendor e-mailed me today. Victron approved the replacement Solar Charge Controller under warranty, it should go out today. The do request that I destroy the old unit, and state that the failed SN can not be replaced again under warranty . . . well, duh. Anyway, I may tear it apart, I mean destroy it after I receive the new one, just to see if I can figure out what exactly failed. . . .

Correction, it will go out FedEx tomorrow, not today . . .

Look for the ones and zeros on the circuit board and find the one that goes 10101010001. Change that middle zero to a one.

 

[Frosty]

I thought about the ferrule shrink wrap situation. I agree that heat shrink is probably not necessary. But if you wanted to use it, there are "bare" ferrules (just metal) you can buy. Or you could cut the plastic cuff off of a cuffed one.

Maybe you could even add heat shrink over the plastic cuff and onto the wire.

I just ended up using the cuffed ones and no heat shrink. That said, I don't spend a lot of time with salt air wafting over my connections.

As @l00smarble mentions, they seem to basically be full of foam inside. But will be interesting to see what you find.

 

[CharlieJ]

What am I missing? There are about a dozen comments about spring connections. This controller does not use spring connections…these are screw connections.

To my eye, this is clearly an installation error whereas the screw connection was not properly torqued.

Or am I missing something??????

 

[Frosty]

@CharlieJ
Well I said "push in and screw down." But I thought that technically they were called "rising clamp" connections (in the Victron MPPT, (not the Phoenix Contact green connectors though those also push in and screw down). I still don't like them.

I haven't had one cause a problem (knock fiberglass), but I have found that with just wire (Ancor marine grade tinned wire) they are prone to settling and moving even after initial torquing. The strands just seem to move around a bit within themselves. I was checking them pretty often and re-torquing when necessary.

Since I began using ferrules (which are not perfect as, for example, something like the 75/15 or 100/20 will take maximum 10AWG wire size, but not after you add a ferrule so you have to employ a few "tricks" to make it work, ugh). Now they don't seem to change once I torque them (but I still keep checking). I bought a torque screwdriver, Knipex ferrule crimpers, and ferrules just for these Victron connections.

In contrast, I can't think of a time I've had a ring terminal and stud type connection loosen up. Not that I don't check them (that's how I can say I have not seen one loosen). Ring/stud also allows me to use whatever size wire I need (no tricks needed), and to angle them in the way that best suits the installation. A similar sized Morningstar controller (15 amp) I used to have used screws/rings, so it can be done.

Or consider the Victron inverter I just purchased. The (large) push in connectors will only take up to 1 AWG wire. I'll be squeezing in 1/0 and they have to stick straight out of the bottom of the inverter. No angling to suit the situation; no using larger cabling. I'll likely have to trim strands just from the 1/0 as it is 3 sq mm larger than the maximum wire size. This will be replacing an old Xantrex 1500 modified sine wave inverter which was nothing special -- and yet even it had posts for connecting the cables. I could use any size wire I wanted to, and then angle the wires at around 75º which worked very well for the installation (allowing me to secure them to a bulkhead for strain relief).

I like Victron gear and now have a lot of it (even their batteries). But I still don't like how they seem to be such big fans of various forms of "push in and smash" connectors. It's a hassle at minimum. And I don't like having to use little tricks.

 

[DDW]

What am I missing? There are about a dozen comments about spring connections. This controller does not use spring connections…these are screw connections.

To my eye, this is clearly an installation error whereas the screw connection was not properly torqued.

Or am I missing something??????

Are you reading a different thread? There was no mention of spring connections until your post.

 

[slowgoesit]

Are you reading a different thread? There was no mention of spring connections until your post.

Yep, I think he's responding to the wrong thread as well. No mention I could find in the previous 28 posts talking about "spring connections".

On to other news. I've got the tracking info on the replacement Solar Charge Controller. Should be here Thursday.

Victron installation manual calls for the PV wires to be torqued to 1.6nm, which for us metric illiterate folks equates to about 14.16 inch lbs, give or take. I previously torqued them all to 15 inch lbs according to my logbook. If you look at the position that the failed terminal is in, it is almost exactly the same as the same it is when a new wire is tightened to the correct torque into the adjacent receptacle. I don't have pic right now. When I install the new wires, with the new controller, I am going to once again attempt to use the ferrules for the inserted wire. I'll let you know how that goes. I am waiting to "dispose/destroy" the failed controller until I actually receive the replacement, then pics will follow.

 

[twistedtree]

After your new controller has been in service for a while, it would be real interesting to re-torque and see how much it takes.

This is all a reminder for me to go around and re-torque everything.