Trawler steady sails

[ranger58sb]

Might be useful to "rank" (?) stabilization options and effectiveness?

Gyros
Active fins
Paravanes
Anti-Roll Tank
Steadying sails
Bilge keels

Something like that? (Whatever.) And it might be that an "effective" verdict for each, especially sails, would be in the eye of the beholder.... compared to expectations. With the likelihood that one implementation might be using a 20' mast with sail area to match, another might be using a 40' mast, ditto, etc. With or without a useful-enough keel to offset...

And then is the juice worth the squeeze?

We shopped on an Island Trader 46 way back when. HUGE boat, in the grand scheme of sail. Think it was mostly described as a motorsailer at the time. And Nauticats, ditto motorsailers. Mostly real sailers back then described those as pretty comfortable, and motorsailers in general as neither fish nor fowl. Nauticats seemed to get high marks for actually sailing. Seems to me I remember their typical hull speeds being similar to what many trawler folks around here get (but that was all along time ago).

But we decided all that work -- dealing with sails -- would be too much for us. (Given day jobs and short weekends, etc.). As would be paravanes, now, probably. Not enough juice...

-Chris

 

[Don L]

I was not talking about a steady sail as something that provides any power. I people think I was asking that sorry. I am only asking about motion and comfort. This kind of means one needs to have had and used one to answer.

 

[Don L]

I hesitate to post this but you asked for opinions. But when anyone posts something you don’t like you jump on them. Maybe post the opinion you want to hear and say don’t post unless you agree with me. I never said it was like a sailboat but that I didn’t want to mess with sails. Lots of people disagree with me without being disagreeable. I always try to treat members here with courtesy. One of the sites rules is to be nice.

You don't see the satire in post I bet

 

[Don L]

In old thread that came up with a google search suggest they do help

Steady Sails...Do they work?

Greetings: Per design, my boat is equipped with a 10.30 meters tall mast. The designer says that the boat will not sail with sails only and he put the mast*to*use steady sail. My question is, Does steady sails really reduce roll? How big of a sail do I need in a 25 ton boat? I could use a mast...

www.trawlerforum.com

 

[Bob Cofer]

Here is Puffin with her factory provided sail. Needs to be a pretty stiff breeze on the beam to be effective but it does provide some stability in the right conditions.

 

[mvweebles]

Here is Puffin with her factory provided sail. Needs to be a pretty stiff breeze on the beam to be effective but it does provide some stability in the right conditions.


View attachment 170351

My Willard 30 was also a Searcher model - and had the same sail. A strong beam wind would "set" her nicely with the sail.

A couple days ago I wrote about crossing the Gulf of Fonseca, El Salvador. Conditions were similar to SF Bay slot - 20-ish knots on the beam. If I'd had a steady sail, it would have been an ideal use case to set. 20-miles out of 2300 is the ratio, but I also have to observe there isn't much penalty to setting one outside of the hassle.

@Bob Cofer - What a fun boat. Certainly grabbed attention wherever she went.

Peter

 

[Don L]

That is such a calm looking day

I do note that in boat for sale listings I don't think I ever have seen a sail installed on one of these. I also note a lot of boats have had their masts removed. Now I don't know if that is because they don't work or owners rarely went out in conditions that they might be of use.

 

[Don L]

BTW - there are posts here saying I just argue if I don't get the answer I wanted. But there is no answer I want except the true answer. Four people saying "their" answer 4 times is 4 answers, not 16. If you gave your answer and it bugs you I keep going back it is OK to not give it again.

 

[psneeld]

In my opinion the question has been answered.... and info from related threads supplement.

The very effective types of stabilization seem to be the most expensive, difficult to install and still have their own issues. Gyros though getting better need to be fed buy a genset. Fins are great but can be damaged and poorly installed can threaten your hull integrity in some situations.

Paravanes are popular but still take adequate design and proper install to be effective and safe. They too take more effort than a push of a button, in my experience, not much more than a steadying sail.

Steadying sails can work, but realistically, are not effective till you are almost a motor sailor and if properly designed, aren't really for any propulsion, fuel savings over the savings from less roll.

Bilge keels and rolling tanks do work but can be hard to install, and are also in that marginal or condition specific lower end.

All are compromises and as Chris pointed out at the top of the page....

"And then is the juice worth the squeeze?"

 

[PierreR]

BTW - there are posts here saying I just argue if I don't get the answer I wanted. But there is no answer I want except the true answer. Four people saying "their" answer 4 times is 4 answers, not 16. If you gave your answer and it bugs you I keep going back it is OK to not give it again.

Ahhhh, Okay, I have no true answer for you.

 

[ranger58sb]

Q: What is the first letter of the English language alphabet?
A: A

Q: What is the nature of the universe?
A: Uhhhhh.....

-Chris

 

[GB36_OuttaHere]

ok just never mind then

meanwhile don't even talk about stabilizers again

Grand Banks 36/42 Trawlers came from the factory with a mast, boom and optional main sail ... I have my mast down due to covered slip height, but plan to rerig it and have often wondered how it would "aid" speed and sea kindliness on a long beam reach in 2-3 footers.

 

[Xlantic]

I bought a Grand Banks steadying sail for my, earlier, GB 42 Classic. Only raised it a couple of time so I guess it didn't do much.

I understand these sails only work with a stiff wind on the beam and even then ...

 

[GeoStr]

Do steady sails have value on a trawler for reducing roll and making the boat more comfortable or not?

On our fully loaded GB32 weighing at 20,000 lbs a handkerchief sized sail on the mast provided will do absolutely NOTHING but complicate the journey in a beam sea. The ONLY benefit would be direct downwind in light/moderate winds of no more than 12 knots when you might save a few dollars in fuel. But you'll have to do that often enough to pay for the sail. Trawlers do not have thousands of pounds of lead 6-8 feet under their hulls, so I would NEVER use a 'steadying' sail in a beam sea.

After decades of sailing... racing mostly and a bit of cruising we went power to get away from the hassle of buying, raising, trimming, lowering, packing, etc., etc., sails. But yeh... it was tons of fun when we were younger.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Trawlers do not have thousands of pounds of lead 6-8 feet under their hulls

Actually, some do. All of the full displacement Willards are ballasted.

 

[Fish53]

There seems to be some confusion about the difference between stabilization and roll attenuation. Personally I like having a boat roll, I like one to pitch also. A boat that won’t respond in a somewhat natural way to sea conditions I find unsettling. An over stabilized boat doesn’t respond to conditions. Your coffee may not get spilled but your windows might get blown out kind of a thing. Roll attenuation however may spill your coffee but you might have time to grab it before it goes off the chart table, you get to keep your windows intact also. I have and love both my riding sail and steadying sail, a pleasant roll and she puts her head to the wind when I let go of the helm.

 

[Fish53]

On our fully loaded GB32 weighing at 20,000 lbs a handkerchief sized sail on the mast provided will do absolutely NOTHING but complicate the journey in a beam sea. The ONLY benefit would be direct downwind in light/moderate winds of no more than 12 knots when you might save a few dollars in fuel. But you'll have to do that often enough to pay for the sail. Trawlers do not have thousands of pounds of lead 6-8 feet under their hulls, so I would NEVER use a 'steadying' sail in a beam sea.

After decades of sailing... racing mostly and a bit of cruising we went power to get away from the hassle of buying, raising, trimming, lowering, packing, etc., etc., sails. But yeh... it was tons of fun when we were younger.

You don’t have a true full displacement boat so no you don’t have ballast or much depth. You also don’t have a nice fair hull like a sailboat so no you won’t get much of a propulsive effect from any sail you could reasonably set. What you have is a semi displacement hull being driven at slightly more than displacement speed, don’t expect perfection from a compromise.

 

[Fish53]

Actually, some do. All of the full displacement Willards are ballasted.

As is my Vashon.

 

[Fish53]

Let's define what we are talking about. In my opinion if the sail is effective you have a motor sailor. There are some out there that are very much a trawler with enough sail to be effective. Just search under motor sailor. A Island Trader 40 comes to mind. To be effective sail comes with some ballast and more keel.
I have no argument with sails being effective on a trawler. Just bear mind that you are giving up bridge clearance and shoal draft. You are effectively neither a trawler or a sailboat. There is certainly a niche for that product but for trawler folks wanting stabilization a paravane rig with fish and flopper stoppers is the way to go.

I spent years with paravanes, aside from reduced speed, increased drag, complexity, too wide in restricted areas, too tall for some bridges when up and being dangerous for the poorly initiated they do sort of work.