To paint, or not to paint, that is the question...

[jtdums]

As we approach the end of our Great Loop in the next couple months, my mind wanders to the inevitable question of "what's up next" for our intrepid 1990 Sabreline aft cabin fast trawler.
Keep...sell...keep...sell...

She has been a "looping" machine and we spent the dollars and the time to get her up to snuff for our 6000 mile journey. I couldn't be more pleased with both the performance and our chosen upgrades. There is a laundry list of things that were completed by either the previous owner or us in the last three years.

However, our boat (and apparently others of its vintage and ilk) suffers from gelcoat issues a plenty. They were all rated "cosmetic" by surveyor at purchase, and although I had grand plans to tackle some of them underway, alas they have gotten away from me.

As we approach our wake crossing, I think it it time to make some major decisions.

Assuming we keep her and continue to cruise regularly, can we justify the expenditure to have the entire topsides corrected and painted? Does the gelcoat need to be corrected to prevent water intrusion or damage? We don't have any leaks right now.
I've tried to wrap my head around what it might cost to have this done and looked at others that have had it completed (Thank you M/V Weebles). However, even if I'm willing to accept a roll and tip finish can we justify the cost? Do we need to correct "cosmetic" issues in gelcoat to preserve the integrity of the boat.

or

If we look to sell her at loop completion, does it make any sense to have it painted to try and recoup our sunk costs because other than the gelcoat topsides she really is in great shape with most major systems (including engines) upgraded or replaced. I know realistically though, a 1990 Sabreline even at a premium can only command a certain sales price.

We are away from the boat for the holidays so no "boat porn" pictures to show what I'm talking about, but I would welcome thoughts and opinions. I'm sure I'm too close and emotional about the boat to make a rational decision.

 

[jgwinks]

If the gelcoat blemishes don't penetrate into the laminate they are just cosmetic. Not pretty, but not dangerous. They do effect resale though. You can try repairing with more gelcoat, but matching colors, even white, is not easy. If there are a lot of them then painting is likely the best path. I haven't tried it yet, but Alexseal paint with the no-tip additive looks very promising. Spray quality finish using just a roller or so they say. Surface prep is the key no matter what paint you use, if the surface is not perfectly fair and smooth painting will just make it look worse.

 

[jtdums]

That is kind of what I am wondering. If we keep the boat long term, do cracks lead to further cracking and damage to the substrate if left unrepaired? It isn't going to get better without intervention, but do cosmetic cracks lead to bigger problems?

This is a big job and although I've done my fair share of roll and tip painting in the past, the scope of this work to be done right really would need to be subbed out.

 

[Comodave]

If you are going to sell it then clean it up perfectly and sell it. You will not likely recoup the money spent on a paint job. They are fabulously expensive unless you DIY it. I have painted several boats and it certainly is doable. Particularly with Alexseal and the tipping additive. I have not used it but it does take a lot of the work out of it. Check BoatWorks Today website. He has lots of info on DIY painting including Alexseal. Awesome site.

 

[Jeff F]

I've seen a few Sabre sailboats of that vintage with serious gelcoat crazing on deck. Most live with it. It's a big dollar fix, and is pretty much entirely cosmetic.

 

[Cigatoo]

If the gelcoat blemishes don't penetrate into the laminate they are just cosmetic. Not pretty, but not dangerous. They do effect resale though. You can try repairing with more gelcoat, but matching colors, even white, is not easy. If there are a lot of them then painting is likely the best path. I haven't tried it yet, but Alexseal paint with the no-tip additive looks very promising. Spray quality finish using just a roller or so they say. Surface prep is the key no matter what paint you use, if the surface is not perfectly fair and smooth painting will just make it look worse.

I painted the super structure of our GB 36 last spring with Alexseal. Can’t say enough good about the paint. Truly amazing how it lays out. Looks like new gelcoat and is very very hard. Great stuff!

 

[RT Firefly]

+1 for AlexSeal.

 

[CharlieO.]

I don't think you'd recoup the expense of a paint job unless you do it yourself.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CO. I agree but 90%+ of the job is prep which almost anyone can do.

 

[READY]

I used Total Boat on my 1976 Hatteras. Some I did and most was done by a local painter. You will need to fair scratches or gouges or they are very visible. I am happy with the outcome and it really improved the appearance.Far from perfect but dramatic improvement. Probably will see no return at sale but much more presentable to prospective buyers.

 

[jtdums]

I have not used AlexSeal before, but I will spend some time looking into it. Thanks for the recommendation on the product.

I agree with the comment that 90% is prep. That has always been my experience. I don't think there is any secret sauce to prepping the gelcoat cracks and they would need to be ground and filled. I wonder if the the crazing might fill with any of the sandable primers on the market. I suspect the deck crazing might well be covered up with a "non skid" coating, but that still leaves large areas that would need to be addressed.

 

[Cigatoo]

I don't think you'd recoup the expense of a paint job unless you do it yourself.

Dont be afraid to do it yourself. As RT said prep is time consuming but not rocket science. The painting is quite easy once you get the system down. In typical German fashion the instructions are overly detailed but actually pretty simple once you have mixed a batch or two. A thousand to fifteen hundred in paint and supply’s and your time is all that is needed. And a good helper.

 

[CharlieO.]

Dont be afraid to do it yourself. As RT said prep is time consuming but not rocket science. The painting is quite easy once you get the system down. In typical German fashion the instructions are overly detailed but actually pretty simple once you have mixed a batch or two. A thousand to fifteen hundred in paint and supply’s and your time is all that is needed. And a good helper.

I am planning on painting our boat this spring.

 

[jtdums]

I am planning on painting our boat this spring.

Have you selected a product line and anticipated procedure?

 

[CharlieO.]

Have you selected a product line and anticipated procedure?

I am leaning toward Alexseal for the hull and house. There will be a lot of sanding and fairing of the hull involved due to the previous owner being aggressive with a sander. Just to be clear, I am doing the hull above waterline.
Haven't decided what I am doing on the decks, probably some type of rubberized coating. I've seen people have pretty good results with such products.

 

[Jeff F]

I agree with the comment that 90% is prep. That has always been my experience. I don't think there is any secret sauce to prepping the gelcoat cracks and they would need to be ground and filled. I wonder if the the crazing might fill with any of the sandable primers on the market. I suspect the deck crazing might well be covered up with a "non skid" coating, but that still leaves large areas that would need to be addressed.

A lot of people use Kiwi Grip for the walking areas. I've seen it used to good effect on many boats after deck recoring.

I think a fair amount of grinding is required to properly address the cracks. Also I would be concerned about root causes and whether the deterioration might continue even after a complete fix and paint. If the root cause is faulty gelcoat or improper manufacturing new cracks could continue to appear.

 

[jtdums]

A lot of people use Kiwi Grip for the walking areas. I've seen it used to good effect on many boats after deck recoring.

I think a fair amount of grinding is required to properly address the cracks. Also I would be concerned about root causes and whether the deterioration might continue even after a complete fix and paint. If the root cause is faulty gelcoat or improper manufacturing new cracks could continue to appear.

I've looked into Kiwi grip for the areas that currently are textured and like that as a solution.

The point about continued issues with the failure of the gelcoat is very valid. I can only hope that this has been a slow problem (boat is 35 yrs young) and that any paint solution would at least slow continued deterioration and crack filling would prevent more problems with water intrusion. I honestly don't know.

 

[mvweebles]

When DIY folks say 90% is prep, I'm not sure they know what they're signing of for. Removing hardware. Fiberglass repair. Filling and fairing holes and imperfections. Sandable primer. Longboard sanding. Gazillion sheets of sandpaper and gallons of acetone.

Takes a lot of time, patience, and a fair amount of money. Not saying a DIY job isn't possible, but I believe the amount of work and expense are often woefully under estimated by DIY folks.

Peter

 

[jtdums]

When DIY folks say 90% is prep, I'm not sure they know what they're signing of for. Removing hardware. Fiberglass repair. Filling and fairing holes and imperfections. Sandable primer. Longboard sanding. Gazillion sheets of sandpaper and gallons of acetone.

Takes a lot of time, patience, and a fair amount of money. Not saying a DIY job isn't possible, but I believe the amount of work and expense are often woefully under estimated by DIY folks.

Peter

This is what worries me. I've built a couple of smaller boats, and the amount of work to fair hulls and do a decent job is daunting.

I would love a solution that protected the remaining gelcoat from further damage and deterioration, but I don't know if there are any half measures that amount to anything in the long run.

Did you ever test your crazy glue in cracks theory?

 

[Comodave]

I am leaning toward Alexseal for the hull and house. There will be a lot of sanding and fairing of the hull involved due to the previous owner being aggressive with a sander. Just to be clear, I am doing the hull above waterline.
Haven't decided what I am doing on the decks, probably some type of rubberized coating. I've seen people have pretty good results with such products.

I used Kiwigrip on the decks of our last boat. President put the gel coat on extremely thick so it had a lot of crazing. In one area it was almost an eight inch thick. I used a belt sander to just remove it all there and then faired it out with filler. In the smooth gel coat I used a Dremel tool to grind out the cracks. Then used 3M filler. But the nonskid decks were terribly cracked. It was tiny diamond plate nonskid. No reasonable way to repair it. So I sanded the nonskid off and then painted with Kiwigrip. It covered the crazing cracks up completely. No grinding them out and filling them. Kiwigrip is water based so easy clean up. Just use blue tape to outline the area. Put the tape on in small sections so you can pull it off as you go. You don’t want the Kiwigrip to dry over the tape. The Kiwigrip wears like iron. The boat had a repair to the deck core by the PO that wasn’t glassed properly so I had to reglass it. But first I had to remove the Kiwigrip. Tried 120, 80 and then 40 grit on the DA sander. No go. Finally went to 40 grit on my belt sander and it slowly ate through the paint. I used Woody Wax on the Kiwigrip so it was easier to wash clean. You can vary the texture of the Kiwigrip depending on the roller you use. Do some tests to see how nonskid you want it.

 

[Comodave]

When DIY folks say 90% is prep, I'm not sure they know what they're signing of for. Removing hardware. Fiberglass repair. Filling and fairing holes and imperfections. Sandable primer. Longboard sanding. Gazillion sheets of sandpaper and gallons of acetone.

Takes a lot of time, patience, and a fair amount of money. Not saying a DIY job isn't possible, but I believe the amount of work and expense are often woefully under estimated by DIY folks.

Peter

Yes it is indeed 90% prep. I painted our last boat. I hired a painter to come and spray the hull. I did the prep. I did a lot of work on it and asked him to come and look at it. He walked in the barn and immediately said 2 more weeks of prep. And he was correct. After we sprayed it it did look beautiful. But it was a lot of work. I probably did 200+ fiberglass repairs to the hull. I think the PO was a charter member of the Coalition of the Docking Impaired because he hit the hull everywhere.

 

[mvweebles]

@Comodave - you must have the patience of Job. The amount of successive feathering steps to complete a single repair is beyond my attention span. Even if I got that far I'd mess it up with a massive sag - you were wise to hire a professional spray guy. Looks so easy from the YouTube videos.

Peter

 

[Jeff F]

I would love a solution that protected the remaining gelcoat from further damage and deterioration, but I don't know if there are any half measures that amount to anything in the long run.

I'm not convinced the gelcoat needs further protection. I've seen countless boats with gelcoat cracking and crazing, and in most cases the underlying laminate is still strong and solid. If there isn't any sign of flexing or core damage I wouldn't lose any sleep over this issue.

 

[jtdums]

I'm not convinced the gelcoat needs further protection. I've seen countless boats with gelcoat cracking and crazing, and in most cases the underlying laminate is still strong and solid. If there isn't any sign of flexing or core damage I wouldn't lose any sleep over this issue.

Thank you Jeff. That relieves my anxiety about neglect causing damage. The repair would be a huge job and if only cosmetic then I have to admit I feel better about putting it on the back burner.

 

[Jeff F]

Thank you Jeff. That relieves my anxiety about neglect causing damage. The repair would be a huge job and if only cosmetic then I have to admit I feel better about putting it on the back burner.

Right. Repairing actual damage to the laminate is easy, if it comes to that. It's getting a yacht quality finish on any repairs that takes the majority of the work. So you may as well wait until actual structural deterioration takes place before addressing it, then do appropriate repair work. That day may never come...

 

[Cigatoo]

I am leaning toward Alexseal for the hull and house. There will be a lot of sanding and fairing of the hull involved due to the previous owner being aggressive with a sander. Just to be clear, I am doing the hull above waterline.
Haven't decided what I am doing on the decks, probably some type of rubberized coating. I've seen people have pretty good results with such products.

So I did my house and decks. House is a lot of work with all the taping and removing of stuff. Going around windows and trim makes for tough painting. A good tape job takes time and patience. However still easier than removing stuff in many cases. No matter how bad you want to finish take your time and get it right. After doing everything at once and using Alexseal I found that you could do it in sections and have it look nice if you find the right break points.

 

[Jeff F]

If I were doing my deck and house I think I'd take the opportunity to remove and rebed all fittings and windows as much as possible.

It's a big project to do right. I have a few spots on the house of my boat that need repair. It's tough to maintain scope some times.

Getting back to the OP, doing a bunch of local gelcoat work might be a good DIY approach. Get a decent color match and go at it at your own pace. Do the worst crack first and work your way along. Dremel, clean and apply.

Just throwing it out there. It would address your water entry concerns. You'd probably notice many of the repairs though.

 

[Comodave]

@Comodave - you must have the patience of Job. The amount of successive feathering steps to complete a single repair is beyond my attention span. Even if I got that far I'd mess it up with a massive sag - you were wise to hire a professional spray guy. Looks so easy from the YouTube videos.

Peter

I started during the winter repairing the many, many fiberglass damaged areas. As spring was approaching I started doing the fairing and finish sanding. Like I said I thought I was done and then the painter came and said another 2 weeks of prep. So I went over it all again. He had some good tips on how to fair it out that helped a bunch. When it came time to spray the boat it took a couple of days to cover the last 3 boats in the barn so we didn’t get overspray on them. Then a day covering the decks of our boat. I paid the painter by the bour, $100 per hour. 3 of us did the work. 2 of us were holding huge LED lights while he sprayed. We finished in one day. The biggest problem was getting enough air for his spray gun. I ended up buying a new compressor and borrowed another one. We manifolded them together. Then I had to get enough power to run both compressors and the spray gun. The barn has minimal power. So we brought my generator from home and used it. All in all a big process but we got it done and the total cost was under $4K. The painter told me if he had done all the work it would have been well over $25K. So it was a lot of work but the price was right.

 

[rgano]

From the description of the issues with his topside gelcoat by jtdums, I don't see why a light sanding followed by a coat of high-build primer to fill the crazed areas and thinner primer elsewhere followed by topcoat would not do the trick. There may be no need to go full blown restoration which usually includes the removal of all the hardware. From my long experience roll and tipping my wooden GB42, I would suggest doing multiple areas which can be delineated rather than a one-shot painting like hull sides more or less require. Contracting out the job can cost 20-40 percent of the sale price he expects, if he sells.

 

[Carriem1102]

With a 1995 Carver i got a professionally matched commercially available gel coat kit for $100 and tackled many of the chips, dings, and spider cracks myself with a dremel and various wetsand sandpapers. Frankly i was amazed at how well they came out. They are not noticeable at all and the look of the boat is vastly improved. Old boats tend to pop new spider cracks on a regular basis, likely due to flexion and old age. My sailboat was far worse when it got to 35 years old and without a kit available at that time it was a nightmare to match up the gelcoat color.