Thoughts on Early 1930s Matthews Boats?

[Christov10]

Found a 38' in apparently turn-key condition at a negotiable price that, in terms of accommodations & power appears to meet my requirements. Been communicating with the broker. Anyone here owned one of these or had experience with one?

Thanks and best regards,

C.

 

[NOT]

The last Matthews looked at was only about 40 years
Old, but that was 20+ years ago. It smelled really bad
(Lots of rotten wood from bow to stern), look before you
Leep(you could go though the bottom). They made a nice
Boat in their day.

 

[Comodave]

Before you buy an old wooden boat I would check into at least, can you get insurance, can you find a marina to dock and haul it? Are you an experienced woodworker? Or do you have lots of money to pay someone to do the work? Not saying don’t do it, just go into it with open eyes.

 

[tiltrider1]

You will pay more in maintenance than you pay for the boat.

You will need a survey done by someone who specializes in wood boats. When was the last time the waterline was replanted? This is where the rot begins. Can you find experienced shipwrights? You can’t slide maintenance on a wood boat like you can on glass boats.

More importantly read ComoDave’s post.

Once you have all this covered, then you can think about buying a wood boat.

 

[Blissboat]

A Matthews built in the early 1930s, as the thread title states, is now at least 90 years old. The number of pre-WWII boats that came from the Matthews yard and that are still in use must be vanishingly small. Matthews was a quality builder, but at this point all that matters to someone considering owning such a boat is how it has been cared for over recent years. If it's in Bristol, concours, museum condition, great. Now all a buyer has to do is be prepared to spend and do what it takes to keep it that way. 90 year-old wooden boats are mercilessly unforgiving of neglect.

 

[Christov10]

You guys are all making good sense and I have made no commitment of any kind as of yet. Some goofball has correctly stated, "The Past is a foreign country." I would add that there're a lot of travel advisories relative to that place.

Seller reports rebuild 1999-2001 by Cayuga Wooden Boat Works, Ithaca, NY. Seller's description includes the following:

"132 white oak ribs (all) keel shaft log horn timber stem knee stringers engine beds covering boards transom all planks below waterline some topside planks cedar tongue & groove forward deck planking painted canvas deck covering Silicon bronze fasteners were used throughout."

Also: "All ... systems are new as of 2002: engine controls electrical panels shore power wiring plumbing heads tanks shower refrigeration propane The 100 hp 1988 Westerbeke diesel engine was cleaned and reinstalled on shock absorbing mounts on new engine beds. The restoration mission was to make ... safe and comfortable with modern amenities but keep it as original as possible. The boat's insured replacement value is $600,000 due to the scope and quality of the restoration. ... has original beveled mirrors and bronze hardware. There are cleverly hidden modernizations like the SeaFrost refrigeration system adapted to the original icebox. The shower in the forward head has hot and cold water pressure. ... hull is extremely fair and true to its lines with no hogging, deformation, loose or proud planking." Still, that was about 25 years ago.

Photos taken last week and over the weekend appear to substantiate claims made. I telephoned to Cayuga Wooden Boat Works this morning, left a message. They may or may not return my call, dunno. Negotiability of price and survey results are primary considerations at this point. If the first fails, no reason to go further. Right now I'm getting as much information as I can.

Overall, even if in perfect condition, this is a big primitive boat - no heating or AC, neither bow nor stern thruster, no navigational electronics, oddly - no cleats midships. It gets damnably hot here in Southern Middle Tennessee during the summer months - that, alone, may contraindicate this purchase. OTH, the idea of a big, pretty, slow, simple boat with room for six, a galley, two heads, a shower, a little deck space is seductive.

 

[Bob Cofer]

This was our 1926 Winslow, 60' of beauty and a full-time job to keep it that way. Absolutely loved that boat, here in the Northwest wooden boats are alive and well with lots of local expert shipwrights. We ended up moving on to a much smaller and less maintenance intensive boat. I miss Seafarer to this day.

 

[tiltrider1]

The 1999-2001 maintenance sounds very complete. It doesn’t surprise me a bit. Now 25 years later I suspect the boat is in need of having the water line replanked. A good surveyor could tell you. At least you now have an idea of what you are getting into.

All my wood boat friends tell me that their boats are a combination of history and art. That they are just the caretakers and if you can’t spend your money purely for the sake of love, don’t buy a wooden boat.

 

[Christov10]

Here are some recent photos the broker sent me last week and over the weekend:

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. C. She DOES appear to be in good shape...for a 90 year old. Deserves to be shown off BUT...BUT....

1930 Cadillac V-16. Would you drive this back and forth to work on a daily basis? Would you drive this from New York to San Francisco?
My point is: If you use a boat/car/plane etc. on a regular basis or for an extended period of time, things wear out. Things corrode and decay. Joints and seams open up due to constant flexing/movement. Finishes get nicks, gouges. dents and bungs. Things get old. In this case, things get OLDER.

By ALL means get the boat but don't expect to use it in the same fashion as a more recent vintage. Sunday drives? Show and shines? Of course. The "loop"...I wouldn't. Just my $.02.

 

[Christov10]

And a few more:

 

[Christov10]

Long weekends on Tennessee rivers with family and friends. Place of occasional refuge and solitude. I have no interest in Looping as of yet.

 

[Christov10]

Found an old photo of one of these when closer to new and also factory drawing of floor plan for the 1926 model. The one I’m considering only has a radio mast.

 

[ranger58sb]

Ref historic wood boats in general...

The Buyboat Muriel Eileen | PropTalk

Muriel Eileen, a 65-foot buy boat built in 1926, is now privately owned and has been transformed from a workhorse into a lovely, unique yacht.

www.proptalk.com

If you had a look at that, you'll have seen it was published in 2016. Muriel Eileen has been on the hard over the last two seasons, too... probably in addition to other haul-outs over the years. These latest hauls were to replace planks on first one side and then the other... and I think some of that included a few ribs, frames, knees, whatever... too.

Usually it has looked like a crew of at least four yard guys have been working on the boat -- FULL TIME -- for about 6-8 months during each haul. Augmented by other yard guys as necessary.

And one day somebody closer to the yard said the owner was sending something like $20K per month to the yard during these hauls. (I don't actually remember the numbers, might have been higher dollars, might have been even more frequent.)

The boat looks great, show worthy. Comparable to the restorations at CBMM -- Winnie Estelle, for example: Winnie Estelle, Buyboat, 1920 - Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum

And we routinely see top-notch wood boats at the Museum docks -- Mathers/Trumpy, and so forth, like Aurora IV for example: Aurora IV | McMillen Yachts | Past Restorations

Wonderful to look at.

Our newer fiberglass boat still requires more "fixing time" than it offers "boating time."

-Chris

 

[Bob Cofer]

I would suggest that you take a very close look at the keel and garboard plank joints. When these old boats age this is the first place you will signs of sagging or hogging. The gaps from stem to stern should be consistent. Also take a look at the stern tube on the inside, this area is susceptible to de-lignification. She looks like a beauty.

 

[Comodave]

You should also pull random fasteners to check their condition.

 

[Diep]

The refit describes the scantlings but not what, if any, hull work was completed. I would ask if the vessel has been refastened at any point and what if any planks, frames have been replaced. As Comodave says a survey should include pulling some fasteners to assess the condition.

Maybe this hull has aged a lot slower being on the hard every winter (or maybe for years at points? It doesn't look to me like it got set there in October...) Still, it sure seems from the cheap seats like hull planks or other repairs are more or less an ongoing concern. In the PNW it seems like 25 years since hull work it would be way overdue again.

If you get involved be careful with that floor tile that is coming apart - it looks like it could be asbestos containing to me.

Sweet looking boat. I'd never be brave enough but if it checks out I hope you or someone so inclined goes for it. Maybe see about a BOGO, there looks like some other neat ones in that barn too...

 

[Christov10]

I actually found a website the seller has made to showcase this boat. Probably will head to NY to see it in the next couple of weeks. If someone buys it out from under me before then, there are a lot of other boats for sale.

 

[Blissboat]

If you get involved be careful with that floor tile that is coming apart - it looks like it could be asbestos containing to me.

The floor covering in the photo appears to be a Congoleum sheet vinyl product, which I used to sell back in the early 1970s. The ads called it "No Wax, Shinyl Vinyl" flooring. And yes, it almost certainly contained asbestos.

 

[Bmarler]

I actually found a website the seller has made to showcase this boat. Probably will head to NY to see it in the next couple of weeks. If someone buys it out from under me before then, there are a lot of other boats for sale.

Great attitude. Buying with the heart alone is a bad move, using the head is better.
I love wooden boats, they are such a different experience than glass or metal. I’d buy one in a heartbeat if I had the time to properly maintain it.

 

[Bob Cofer]

I actually found a website the seller has made to showcase this boat. Probably will head to NY to see it in the next couple of weeks. If someone buys it out from under me before then, there are a lot of other boats for sale.

Would you mind posting the link here, I would like to look at her.

 

[Christov10]

I am laughing a little because I am a little afraid that posting the link, someone will buy the boat before I have a chance to see it and make an informed offer. Here's the link: www.mvdowager.com - the owners show an asking price of $45k. Their brokerage is www.antiqueboatsamerica.com and they have the boat listed with a $38k asking price on their Clayton Showroom page and additional photos.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Nice boat!!

 

[Christov10]

I am out on this boat. We were unable to get close relative to a selling price.

 

[Diep]

How did she look relative to the listing photos? They don't look recent and the pics you shared upthread were not particularly clear. Its an idle curiosity but I get a feeling there might be a bit of a disconnect.

 

[Christov10]

I didn’t make the trip so I can’t say. I know the listing photos are pretty old. Previous owner died in 2015. Boat’s been at Antique Boats America dry storage facility for a couple of years and I think before that had been at Ithaca. There’s no canvas cover for superstructure, etc. and the canvas for the pilot house has been left off. Dusty. Owner’s website says the hull was painted in 2023. ABA hasn’t been charging the seller for storage so the individual is in no distress on that count.

Spent time on the phone with the broker’s boss yesterday, got info about previous offer, dynamics r/t the estate, seller’s hx w brokerage, seller’s apparent instability r/t pricing (a moving target trending upward of late), talked offer amounts, contingencies and decided to pass. This leaves me in the position the seller wishes to occupy - pile of money and without that boat. Sadly, without that boat.

To the good, now I know about Clayton, New York, and have it on a must visit list.

 

[Diep]

Nice update. I read "out (in Clayton and) on this boat" and thought you had made the trip and were looking at it in person!