Tesla battery

[Delfini]

Being I have very little current draw but want lots of capacity why not an old Tesla battery?

Tesla Model S X 100kWh 6.4kWh Battery Module Cell 24V 287Ah 1086755-00-D

 

[SteveK]

Is that the one being replaced by Tesla because they catch on fire?

 

[tiltrider1]

What is the chemistry? While LiFePo4 is very stable, most the other chemistries have the potential for thermal runaway which can result in a fire.

 

[Cargile]

First I look at the purse. What does it cost?

 

[luna]

Google says that Model S batteries are mostly, if not all Nickel Cobalt Aluminum made by Panasonic.
You would need to very careful with selecting the charging equipment.

I would not put that in my boat as easier, safer and likely cheaper options exist.

 

[Delfini]

the price , starting at 500-1000
Don’t know how many Teslas have burnt but , mitigating a fire sure sounds good.
A tech friend runs electric cars, jets, helicopters and houses. He suggested it.
Thought I run it by

 

[Delfini]

This is from ChatGPT AI

“Using an older Tesla Model S battery for your boat could have several downsides. First, there’s the issue of cooling; Tesla batteries are liquid-cooled, and adapting that system for marine use could be challenging. Second, saltwater exposure could corrode the battery or its components, posing safety risks. Third, there’s the matter of weight and space, as these batteries are quite heavy and large. Finally, older batteries may have reduced capacity and efficiency, affecting performance and range. It might be worthwhile to consult a marine electrician or engineer for tailored advice.

Enough said!

 

[Mako]

Unless you can grab a unit for nearly-free and like to experiment, it sounds lose-lose. Perhaps goto Eve's website and buy some Li batteries, but better do it before January!

 

[Jeff F]

I wouldn't try it, and I consider myself to be pretty handy with batteries and energy storage.

See Two bodies recovered on Sable Island - Cruisers & Sailing Forums for a loss of life event that could plausibly be attributed to a battery fire.

New lifpo batteries seem to me to be a much safer alternative at about the same price.

 

[Benthic2]

I believe there were multiple houses that burned down in Florida recently when rising floodwaters/storm surge (ie: salt water) caused Tesla's batteries to ignite. I would want to fully understand that phenomenon before putting Tesla batteries in my boat.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I wouldn't do it. I did the LiFePO4 and it works great!

It's hard enough to do that upgrade and make sure things are properly isolated with lots of available and inexpensive known and proven technology. Why poke the bear?

 

[Mambo42]

I think the only question is: 'what is the value of your life ?'
If you think your life is worth 500 euro, then by all means go for lithium ion.
If you think that your life is more valuable you will never ever put a lithium ion battery on your boat.
There are enough tests and videos out there where you can see what happens with lithium ion batteries when they get overcharged, damaged, not cooled enough or are exposed to flames.
Yes, a lithium ion battery is cheap (compared to LiFePO4) and packs a lot more Kw than a LiFePO4 or AGM battery, but at what risk ? Is that additional risk worth the financial gains and do you want to put the boat and your life on the line in order to save a couple of hundred dollars ?

Here are some quotes from an article about safety of LIB's (lithium ion batteries).

The operating or storage temperature affects the battery's performance [15], [16], [17]. Typically LiBs operate in a temperature range between 15 °C and 35 °C to perform optimally and secure a long cycle life [18], [19], [20], [21], [22]. However, during operation, a considerable amount of heat, especially at high rates, can be generated from the cell. This can significantly speed up the temperature elevation [22], [23] and accentuate the temperature non-uniformity when batteries are stacked in modules or packs [24], [25] or cooled inefficiently [26]. If the heat is not successfully evacuated or if the temperature is not optimally controlled via a battery thermal management system (BTMS) [27], [28], [29], this can lead to the battery’s temperature exceeding the safety temperature range, above which the cell’s components decompose and result in exothermic reactions, ultimately leading to safety accidents involving thermal runaway (TR), smoke and even fire [30], [31].
TR occurs when a LiB is in an internal failure state caused by uncontrolled electrochemical reactions [32]. These exothermic electrochemical reactions are influenced by two main factors: temperature and voltage [33], [34]. They can be triggered when a cell is used outside its normal operating range and is exposed to extreme abuse conditions. These conditions can be classified into three categories: electrical [35], [36], thermal [37], [38] and mechanical abuse

and

Safety issues​

Generally, when a LiB operates a considerable amount of heat is generated from three main sources: the polarization heat, the reversible heat and the joule heat [61]. The higher charging or discharging rate, the more heat the battery generates [85] which leads to an increase in the internal temperature of the cell. This can be detrimental since fast charging has become a very important factor to be considered for battery development and safety

You can read the full article here

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359431123010438

Since boats are used to 'slamming' into waves (pitching and rolling) the chance Lithium Ion batteries getting damaged is well above average.
LiFePO4 does not have these problems and that is the reason I chose for LiFePO4.

 

[nwboater]

I have the Hysolis 5Kw with 30 amp AC output to my vessels shore power input. This unit includes 3kw low-frequency inverter, 20 amp DC output, 1200 watt internal charger and MPPT solar controller, plus Bluetooth connectivity. It runs our induction cooktop, coffeemaker and other 110VAC appliances. You can have it up and running in a few hours max!

 

[Frankdog]

Being I have very little current draw but want lots of capacity why not an old Tesla battery?

Tesla Model S X 100kWh 6.4kWh Battery Module Cell 24V 287Ah 1086755-00-D

Do not fit this battery to a boat application i would class this as insanity. lithium battery in any boat, its critical regardless of the chemistry that the BMS is robust and preferably it be a fully managed type although the self managed battery of reputable brand would be ok and lithium iron phosphate is best Chemistry, in saying that it still vulnerable under incorrect charging.

 

[Comodave]

First I look at the purse. What does it cost?

First I look at safety. If it is cheap but unsafe I would not go anywhere near it.

 

[bumpkin]

I don't know of anybody using Tesla for boats. A couple of years ago Tesla batteries were the go to solution for people building their own solar storage. Don't remember anyone mentioning the batteries being unstable. Management is the biggest problem cited by beginners. For several years there was a guy who held classes to make your own storage and he used Tesla batteries.

 

[carpedatum]

Former Tesla Engineering person here... There's a traceability problem - either it came out of a wreck (so safety becomes an unknown) or from a car that had its battery replaced (meaning actual capacity could be much lower than it says on the tin). Model S has been around for a long time now.

Then there's integrating the thing with your boat's electrical system. It was designed for something completely different. Everything about how it was charged and discharged, originally, was managed by proprietary electronics and software as part of a much larger system. I understand you can buy or make a BMS for these things, but then now you've got yet another maybe-that's-right on your hands.

By the time you're done dealing with all that, you could get a pretty big LiFePO4 from a reputable manufacturer, and sleep better at night.

 

[twistedtree]

I personally wouldn't want anything other than LFP on my boat for anything larger than a power drill battery.

ChatGP identified one issue which is the need for liquid cooling. I also expect that there are embedded electronics in the battery pack for sensing, balancing, etc., and I doubt you could realistically hook up to those.

So I'm not sure how you would implement the BMS functions. I suspect many using those batteries are running without BMS protection, which with non LFP can be quite dangerous, and particularly so on a boat where you can't just step away from the fire and watch from a safe distance.

 

[Mako]

“I personally wouldn't want anything other than LFP on my boat for anything larger than a power drill battery.”

Well said. Unfortunately it was likely nothing more than a cell phone which took out the Conception and 3 dozen divers/guests.

 

[Don L]

The inexpensive drop in LFP batters are soooo cheap now days for a battery that have use experience in the boating and RV world I don't understand why anyone would go a different way. I got 100AH 12v batteries just 2 years ago for $300/ea and now you can get less than $200/ea

https://www.amazon.com/Litime-LiFePO4-Protection-Rechargeable-Trolling/dp/B0C8T1FD7M/ref=sr_1_6?crid=92TUXIHPG1BL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1Fnh2nM1IjR0H4KwcitbkaCQDUAhEAST3I636dXR6hqTVUmj7sO8EP_OoWj3YdUREzPx-H7L7br8krCQ8PmXAREAr0qDe2jz8KxyCj9zfhgYFqX5OaFZvjJmpdBk01TbOJ88_45GYbirG736_o3BQw7DLdtQ2Zgq-YflN_gz0PKmXkGuwQ0ZZq7gQB5UAYnEkFYInJevrQlblsZm2gySGinOukEovxI3KvBOB0mJoss._c-4yUUZTXVd0XZPZgXVf5H_CkAPuiJjfznKxxZ58mY&dib_tag=se&keywords=Li-Time&qid=1732717890&sprefix=li-time%2Caps%2C160&sr=8-6

 

[Mako]

Luckily, it turns out that LFP batteries are just like laptops, TVs and any other electronic - they keep dropping in price, and with increasing usage/supply, they keep dropping in price even more.

Personally I still like the old 2v industrial OPz batteries, and those are ideal if you also need to add 1/2 ton or more of ballast to your boat.

 

[twistedtree]

“I personally wouldn't want anything other than LFP on my boat for anything larger than a power drill battery.”

Well said. Unfortunately it was likely nothing more than a cell phone which took out the Conception and 3 dozen divers/guests.

That's certainly what everyone thinks, but there is zero evidence to say it's true, and none of the investigations came to that conclusion.

 

[Mako]

I was just reading the Wiki write-up. It states that the cause of the "accident" was human (lack of oversight, egress, adequate smoke detectors, etc). But regarding to the cause of the fire, there may be no final and conclusive statement like you said, but it's rather obvious the direction that is indicated. It was interesting how they referenced a similar incident on a sister ship as well.

What's important to each of us reading this thread is to take away some lessons-learned, or some cautions, and perhaps installing a used Tesla battery from a wrecked car isn't such a good idea. Looks like OP came to that same conclusion as well.

 

[Jeff F]

A couple of years ago Tesla batteries were the go to solution for people building their own solar storage. Don't remember anyone mentioning the batteries being unstable. Management is the biggest problem cited by beginners.

It's not that they're unstable when permanently mounted. The concern is that failures, while rare, can be truly catastrophic. And failure can come from mechanical stress, corrosion or water infiltration as well as poor management.

It's far easier to safely escape a burning home or car than a boat at sea.

Luckily, it turns out that LFP batteries are just like laptops, TVs and any other electronic - they keep dropping in price, and with increasing usage/supply, they keep dropping in price even more.

Several EV manufacturers have switched over to LFP. It's got a big price advantage over LI now.

 

[Mako]

That’s interesting, @Jeff F, do you have an indication of what the difference in energy density is?

 

[Jeff F]

That’s interesting, @Jeff F, do you have an indication of what the difference in energy density is?

Not sure, but i guess the other advantages outweigh the weight penalty in lots of mass market applications. IIRC Tesla uses LFP now for their Asian built cars.

 

[more]

Being I have very little current draw but want lots of capacity why not an old Tesla battery?

Tesla Model S X 100kWh 6.4kWh Battery Module Cell 24V 287Ah 1086755-00-D

becouse NCA battery is danger,special on boat.

watch this

 

[Greg QS]

First off when i did my lithium upgrade., I sent the plans and battery selections to the insurance company for approval. If you do a system like that you run the risk of loos of insurance or worse denial of coverage at the time of loss. You run into insurance issuers when you use Products that are not intended fort there original purpose. If there was a failure you have not recourse with insurance or say the manufacture. You did not use the product for its intended use and then the manufacture cannot be held liable.

you can get a 200 amp hr 24volt or a 400 amp hr 12 volt battery with fire suppression inside, full brms system for 1200 bucks each. lifepod 4 super safe. I put in a 2400 amp hour system . 10 year warrantee on batteries.

EG4 LifePower4 V2 | 24V 200AH | Server Rack Battery

Upgrade to the EG4 LifePower4 v2 24V 200AH Server Rack Battery. This enhanced model features a 25.6V (24V) 5.12kWh lithium iron phosphate battery with a 200A internal BMS, composed of UL recognized prismatic cells tested at over 6,000 deep discharge cycles to 80% DoD. Reliable and rigorously...

signaturesolar.com

 

[SteveK]

IMO, insurance companies will look for ways to avoid paying in all cases.
If LifePO4 was an insurance liability I would expect them to ask hey what kind of battery do you have or there would be an exclusion in the small print.
Never having a claim, I have not had this experience. Insurance the necessary evil.
Tesla would not have changed the battery formula if it were safe overall, with few exceptions.

 

[Rearmount]

First I look at the purse. What does it cost?

I get that!!