Teak decks "removed"

[Don L]

I have lots of random thoughts sometimes. One that occurred to me just now is "teak decks removed" on older boats that had screwed down teak. I always looked at as a plus, but is it really? On one hand you can say "the leaking teak has been removed". But on the other hand you can say "those decks must have had leaks bad enough to rot the core bad enough t make soft spots so were removed". Now here is the thing, unless there are pictures of the removal process how you really know what was done? Was the old rotted cored really removed? Was more core or fiberglass added to make up for the lost stiffness of the teak. Is the deck now going to flex more and cause ongoing issue?

I suddenly am looking at it as original teak decks installed as a plus, not a negative.

 

[hollywood8118]

walk on the deck, you can if it was done right
Hollywood

 

[Comodave]

You can get a pretty good idea of the core condition by either a moisture meter or tapping it out with a phoenolic hammer.

 

[socalrider]

As above. Also, if the teak decks are in place, it's much harder to tell if the core is rotten.

I can see no advantage to having a teak deck that's in poor condition versus no teak deck.

 

[SarahSeed]

I have lots of random thoughts sometimes. One that occurred to me just now is "teak decks removed" on older boats that had screwed down teak. I always looked at as a plus, but is it really? On one hand you can say "the leaking teak has been removed". But on the other hand you can say "those decks must have had leaks bad enough to rot the core bad enough t make soft spots so were removed". Now here is the thing, unless there are pictures of the removal process how you really know what was done? Was the old rotted cored really removed? Was more core or fiberglass added to make up for the lost stiffness of the teak. Is the deck now going to flex more and cause ongoing issue?

I suddenly am looking at it as original teak decks installed as a plus, not a negative.

“Teak removed” can be a plus or a red flag , it all comes down to documentation. If the core was properly replaced and the deck re-laminated, great. If not, you’re right: unknown repairs and possible flex.

 

[jrd22]

A lot of teak decks are removed but not sure how many are removed and done correctly. It's a huge and very expensive job to remove the teak (and core if rotten), pot ALL of the deck hardware with thickened epoxy and glass over the deck and install new non-skid. Without extensive photos of the whole process to document the job I'd assume it wasn't done properly and pass on the boat. I also wouldn't consider another boat with screwed teak decks, once doing that job was enough.

 

[Frosty]

A couple of things to look at or ask about:

--What was done for the abandoned screw holes? I think they should be glassed over, but I have seen descriptions where people just fill them with thickened epoxy and then paint over it all. (I would be concerned at minimum with "circle cracks" showing up in the paint down the road.)

--Look at the bases of things like fuel fills and stanchions. Also the perimeter of deck hatches. How did they handle the fact that they have now removed something like 1+" of height? I've seen some really nice ways, and some really hokey ways (eg, square chunks of starboard). Every situation is different but to me it's an indicator of how the job was approached.

 

[rslifkin]

It depends on what was actually done and what condition the decks seem to be in. As an example of doing it the right way, my slip neighbor stripped the teak decks off his Vagabond 42, cut the decks open, re cored them, and glassed it back together with gelcoat and then Kiwigrip over the top for non skid. Looking at the boat now, the only giveaway that anything was ever done is the lip at the edge of the cabin top where it was shaped to match the height of the original teak over the fiberglass decks.

 

[Don L]

But did he add extra core to make up for the lost of strength the teak had provided?

 

[RedRascal]

Yep I think you nailed this one that decks removed may be a good or bad thing. I've seen firm decks with wet cores. Teak removed gives you a better shot at determining if the core is wet. I would rather deal with a few wet/soft spots in the deck than deal with a wet house.

 

[Insequent]

IMO people over-react to teak deck issues. Back in 2012 I bought my 1982 build date boat for under $200k, in part because of known soft spots in the teak covered foredeck. There were no leaks into the cabins.

I had the entire foredeck re-cored at Port Townsend. First I removed 960 screws and the teak strips. Time consuming but not difficult. Then I handed over to some pro's who faired lower GRP surface and laid 1.5oz CSM in vinyl ester. Followed by two layers of 6mm marine ply with joins overlapped, all bonded in with vinyl ester core bond. Another 1.5oz CSM then 2 layers of 24oz woven roving and lastly 2 more layers of 1.5oz CSM. This matched the 5/8" thickness of the balsa. Faired, then awlgrip & micro-balloons. Cost was $17k. Now 13 years later still no issues.

At the time the average selling price for 12 boats of same model (builds 1979 to 1983) was above $250k. Takeaways - teak decks are not all that expensive to fix, and when in poor condition create big selling price drops that more than offset repair costs.

Pics of soggy balsa core, removal of balsa and sanding lower GRP layer, marine ply sections working forward, and finished deck.

 

[Comodave]

That price was 13 years ago and now it will be a lot higher, likely double that.

 

[mvweebles]

........Now here is the thing, unless there are pictures of the removal process how you really know what was done? ......... Is the deck now going to flex more and cause ongoing issue?.

Maybe ask for the last survey? I would think any surveyor worth his/her salt would know to look for structural integrity on any real deck. May not tell you how it was done, but will tell you if there is an active problem.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

My Albin 40 had screwed teak decks that I removed.

I also could access the bottom of the decks in some areas that I rebuilt in the interior.

My boat had teak ply decks that were very wet in some areas but because they were not encapsulated on the bottom, they drained, but remained wet until I removed the planked teak and recovered the decks.

The decks were teak plywood so it really didn't rot. It also didn't delaminate from freeze/thaw cycles because it lived most of it's life in the south and I replaced the decks quickly after moving the boat north so it didn't delaminate there and develop soft spots. Only one spot shower up but not until many years later when the deck was recovered and had dried out.

Some well made/non-screwed teak decks still delaminate in areas where the top glass bons breaks free for all kinds of reasons. I have repaired a few decks because of this and I did have a small 2'X2' area on the Albin. I did the usual, drilled some holes, injected the epoxy and placed weights to bond the core and top layer together.

I added 3 layers of epoxy/glass on top to add strength. Because of the house/deck design, there were no huge expanses that needed reinforcing as the original plywood core and glass covering seemed plenty strong with the thin teak planking removed.

Bottom line is not every repair on a boat has to be done a certain way, each repair needs to be approached with a "what does it need to be a successful repair" evaluation.

 

[rslifkin]

But did he add extra core to make up for the lost of strength the teak had provided?

He did not, but he rebuilt it with cut squares of teak plywood for core, set in epoxy. So the core should be at least as strong as the original plywood core, and he rebuilt the top skin with heavy roving and epoxy. Those decks were built heavily to start with and well supported, as the skins were quite thick and while it was in progress you could walk on just the bottom skin of the deck with hardly any perceptible flexing. I've been on the boat since he finished it and the decks present as more solid and stiffer than most.

 

[socalrider]

Several years ago I spent a lot of time looking at a very cool 1980 50' sailboat that had full teak which was removed. It looked great with fresh paint, etc. Closer inspection revealed it was a disaster. Portlights and hatches had been installed without any sealant whatsoever. The stainless lifeline stanchions had been bolted directly to the aluminum toe rail (horizontally) and not fastened at all to the deck (!!). And on and on...

I wouldn't have even take a look if the original 40yo tired teak decks were there. PO did the hardest part and ran out of steam - I'm sure there was a ton of stuff I didn't find as well. No thanks!

 

[psneeld]

There is a big difference between some previous owner DIY and others. So gross inadequacies like the unsealed portlights and poorly secured stanchions are a pretty good indicator not to totally pass on but make sure other than factory work on board is at least completed.

 

[DaveGibson]

Look at it this way. All teak decks leak if they've been screwed down.. Every single one of them. Oh sure, maybe not when they're brand new and the dowel heads covering the screws are nice and tight. How long does it take for those dowels to shrink a little? After a number of years, the caulk starts to pull away between the teak boards and dowels start to pop off. All that rainwater and seawater starts to soak into the core where it rots and becomes a heavy wet soggy mess.

My preferred method to avoid this is to buy a boat with a foam core, not wood. Wood coring has to be the stupidest thing a boat builder has ever done, in my opinion. The sad news is that if you limit yourself to foam cored boats, your selection is limited. There are a few out there, though.

 

[Don L]

not all foam core is OK to get wet!

 

[ronobrien]

As above. Also, if the teak decks are in place, it's much harder to tell if the core is rotten.

I can see no advantage to having a teak deck that's in poor condition versus no teak deck.

I just went through this. I thought that I had some bad spots under the teak. I removed the teak and found that I had some bad spots and some REALLY bad spots. The teak was masking just how bad it was. Cut the top layer of glass, removed the core 100%, re-cored and re-inistalled the glass panels, ground it all down and put down 1 layer of 1708 with vinylester. Fairing, sanding, finishing and paint in the spring. Monumental job but worth doing in the end. Took lots of pics through the whole process. . Walking on it, the difference is amazing, and I have a future sales point.

 

[DaveGibson]

not all foam core is OK to get wet!

I don't know any boat manufacturer that uses open cell foam. It's all closed cell so it can't absorb water.

 

[GeoStr]

As I have just removed the teak deck on our new to us GB32 my 2 cents on this thread...

Not all teak decks will leak as assumed here. Depends on the builder's attention to detail and I guess GB's have a good reputation because our deck had no signs of leaking through to the core after 44 years. Sure areas leaked to under the teak, but the excess application of the adhesive sealant stopped any intrusion into deck. The screws only hold the deck in place while the adhesive sets.

Once removed the screw holes need countersinking a bit to get access to the hole and core. A 60cc hypodermic style applicator is used to inject an unthickened epoxy. When set a thickened mixture is used until the hole area is slightly proud of the deck. In our case the majority of deck was very difficult to remove and areas of gelcoat were also removed because the 44 year old adhesive was doing an excellent job holding the teak and stopping water intrusion into the core. It all gets sanded down to a smooth deck level for installation (glued only) of FlexiTeek this Spring. Total cost including deck removal & tax = $44k canadian.

Was it worth it for a 44 year old boat ? Well it's a Grand Banks and you either love them... or you don't !

She was lovingly looked after by 3 previous owners and was so good otherwise it made sense to me to do this... but in 5 decades plus of boating in 14 boats some people think I have no sense. As the scorpion said to the swan halfway across the river... it's my nature.

 

[DaveGibson]

Many Grand Banks have foam cored decks. Are you sure yours is wood?

 

[GeoStr]

Many Grand Banks have foam cored decks. Are you sure yours is wood?

Positive. Classic displacement style GB's are wood core.
Maybe the new planing designs are foam.
What you see in the image with holes countersunk is the gelcoat and fiberglass dust. After cleaning out the hole with a larger diameter drill... wood dust came out.

 

[Lenbo]

Keeping the teak decks on my GB36. Hull #776 (just prior to the hull changes). Here's a view after removing the fuel cap port side. Only leaks on the boat appeared to be around the fuel tank fillers. Tanks were replaced, they weren't leaking but were rusty from water leaking on them over the years I suppose. To be clear the leaks were not around the fuel caps but from water getting under the decking where the caulk had failed. First big rain and I had water on top of the new port fuel tank. The fuel filler cap was just redone when the tanks were replaced so I knew the water must be getting there somehow. Deck composition....Teak/cored layer/wood/ fiberglass. Best way to know what you have is to take a look. My deck were in good shape so I decided to give them some attention. Well built boats....hard to remove the old decking as it's well bedded to the core. I've been replacing any decking that is suspect. Couldn't find a good source for planks so I made my own.What I have found is I did not have any leaks around any screw holes and the weren't loose. I've removed and replaced more screws and teak plugs than I can count and not one showed any signs of moisture getting in the screw hole. I do find where the caulk has failed the water does get under the teak but has not penetrated into the core (verified with a moisture meter).

The water issues I encountered were where the caulking had failed. After replacing the caulk (I stopped counting how many tubes of caulk I used) I feel pretty good about the decks. A lot of work that requires a lot of upkeep.

 

[DDW]

I don't know any boat manufacturer that uses open cell foam. It's all closed cell so it can't absorb water.

Closed cell does absorb water, though not very much. It isn't at all unusual for a foam cored deck to be wet from water penetrating the many holes manufacturers put in them. Most foam does not lose its strength when wet, and doesn't rot. You might still have issues in a freezing climate.

 

[Don L]

One of the things I have learned in this thread is .................. I am not interested in getting a teak deck removal project!

 

[GeoStr]

Best way to know what you have is to take a look. My decks were in good shape so I decided to give them some attention.

Well done, having just entered my eight decade your project would be a leap too far for me but I commend your enthusiasm and skill. Your decks still had a caulking groove left whereas ours had been sanded down over the decades to nothing. Glad I hired out the removal when it became obvious it was not easy.

DonL ... glad we could help with your decision. Good hunting...

 

[OldDan1943]

One of the things I have learned in this thread is .................. I am not interested in getting a teak deck removal project!

No external teak was a major reason for buying an American Tug. I learned my lesson with my N46.

 

[TrailerTrash]

I bought my boat with the side decks redone. The survey didn't mention issues with it but you guys tend to have more faith in the surveyors than I do. My skybridge still has teak and I view that as a negative. It is solid, walking on it and I have no leaks below and the surveyor didn't flag it, but I pretty much view it as a future project. As long as it functions, and I don't have active leaks, I'm in no hurry to create pain for myself.

What you paid for the boat to begin with and it's value probably matter as much as the cost of repair. I only paid $20K for the boat so if I took it to the yard and told them to replace it, I'm sure it would over double my sunk cost.