Survey & Sea Trial Day!

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SeaWoof

SeaWoof

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2024
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58
Location
Salish Sea
Well, I am pretty excited (and a bit anxious) that we are moving along with the purchase of first *real* boat. A nice Nordic Tug 26.

Being the first, it's a whole new experience for me, but thankfully the owner is helpful and genuine and I believe I have been taking the correct steps.

I have viewed the boat twice now, taken detailed photos and notes and have our surveys and sea trial this week. Will start with meeting the lead surveyor, for an in-water survey at the dock (anything inside the boat / above waterline), followed by pulling the boat our on a trailer (no lift here) for the him to then look at the the hull / running gear. I then have a machine inspection / survey (different team) going through the engine / mechanical, followed by short sea trial with both on board. I think this will give me the best chance of picking up any issues and dealing with them.

Any other thoughts / recommendations for the day from those with experience?
 
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Perhaps do a shory sea trial first? Then if any issues arise the inspection can be used to understand the cause. Or not even proceed.

I wish I had done this on a Meridian a few years ago. Did all the normal in the water survey and then sea trial. Had massive issue with vibration, full rpm and temps. Would have saved a lot of time and perhaps cost to find this first.
 
"... followed by short sea trial with both on board..."

What do you call "short?" The engine surveyor will check the running gear while the boat is out of the water, right? The sea trial should be long enough for the surveyor to see the engine perform at WOT for at least several minutes, preferably 10, see the boat as she maneuvers including 360 degree circles clockwise and counter, port and starboard turns, and reverse, and finding "rough water" or creating wakes, and of course taking measurements. Long enough for you and your co-captain to take the helm and maneuver her while standing, sitting, making turns, and checking for visibility.

So not sure who designated "short," but for me short means maybe 45 minutes.
 
Judy at JWY said:
"... followed by short sea trial with both on board..."

What do you call "short?" The engine surveyor will check the running gear while the boat is out of the water, right? The sea trial should be long enough for the surveyor to see the engine perform at WOT for at least several minutes, preferably 10, see the boat as she maneuvers including 360 degree circles clockwise and counter, port and starboard turns, and reverse, and finding "rough water" or creating wakes, and of course taking measurements. Long enough for you and your co-captain to take the helm and maneuver her while standing, sitting, making turns, and checking for visibility.

So not sure who designated "short," but for me short means maybe 45 minutes.
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"Short" as in, as long as they need to, but was told that it shouldn't take too long - I imagine given the simplicity of the boat. Single engine, no fancy systems. 45 - hr sounds about right. Engine surveyor will be present and do running gear check while out of water as well.
 
READY said:
Perhaps do a shory sea trial first? Then if any issues arise the inspection can be used to understand the cause. Or not even proceed.

I wish I had done this on a Meridian a few years ago. Did all the normal in the water survey and then sea trial. Had massive issue with vibration, full rpm and temps. Would have saved a lot of time and perhaps cost to find this first.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, that is good to know! Timing was a consideration for doing sea trial first as we had a limited window for the haul-out. I have been aboard with everything running & revved, but just at the dock. So crossing fingers that the sea trial doesn't bring up anything of major concern.
 
A good moisture meter along with someone that can read it correctly. Test below each window and any screw that penetrates a deck. A rainy day is ideal for locating leaks. A bilge check is also another way of discovering leaks on a rainy day. Drop the anchor at the dock and bring it back up. This will verify rode and windass condition. I hope it works out for you. Great boat!
 
Good luck with the survey. Hope is goes well.
 
Seawolf,
Great little Tug! Congrats!!!
I hope all goes well with your surveys. Good advice above, and do drop the anchor and retrieve to ensure that system functions well and to give a look at the chain/rode. Not huge deal for new chain, but knowing about it before (as with anything on board) is best!
Insist that the engine gets run at WOT (after full warm up) for 5-10 min. as this helps show several possible issues and does not harm a maintained engine. Try to ensure your mechanic is very familiar with the specific engine and tranny in this boat.
Good luck
 
A couple notes:

But first, Nordic Tug 26! Such a sweet little boat :)

1) Check everyplace of course, but pay particular attention to the joint between the pilothouse and the saloon cabintop. In other words, if you climb up onto the saloon cabintop, then walk forward until you "hit" the vertical aft wall of the pilothouse and then look down at your feet. That athwartships joint.

Look at that very closely, because in any NT I've seen (at least up until like maybe 2010 or something) that seam is only caulked, and on the other side of that caulk is wood core. The danger is that the caulk stops sealing, and water flows into the core of the saloon cabintop and saturates it.

(I believe on newer boats they fiberglass this seam, and on older boats this is what we would do at a yard to make a permanent fix. These two parts do not need to flex independently; they were just built separately and they caulked them together. Or at a bare minimum, if I were keeping the caulk system, I would dig out the caulk, reef out the first inch-ish of core, and backfill with thickened epoxy, then re-caulk.)

But that's for another day. For survey day just pay particular attention to this area. So you know if you have any damp or wet core, and what the extent of it is. You can also look around for obvious brown stains (these can indicate that water has flowed into the core, and basically leeched some of the woodiness out of it, making the water turn brown). This can also have a bit of a sweet/rotten smell.

This can all be repaired, but you want to know what you are getting.

2) I have had an experience (ironically on a NT 26) where during the survey they would NOT run the boat up to WOT. As if the engine were fine china. Broker/cap't basically refused. IMO, this is wrong, and it should be run up to WOT for two reasons.

a) Let it run at WOT for long enough to make sure it's not overheating (cooler clogged, etc.) or tending to creep up and up in temp. This doesn't have to be a super long time, but long enough to find out.

b) To make sure the boat will make rated WOT (or what RPM it will make at WOT) for your particular engine. (Or if it won't, consider that in your negotiations.).

Happy survey day!
 
Frosty said:
A couple notes:

But first, Nordic Tug 26! Such a sweet little boat :)

1) Check everyplace of course, but pay particular attention to the joint between the pilothouse and the saloon cabintop. In other words, if you climb up onto the saloon cabintop, then walk forward until you "hit" the vertical aft wall of the pilothouse and then look down at your feet. That athwartships joint.

Look at that very closely, because in any NT I've seen (at least up until like maybe 2010 or something) that seam is only caulked, and on the other side of that caulk is wood core. The danger is that the caulk stops sealing, and water flows into the core of the saloon cabintop and saturates it.

(I believe on newer boats they fiberglass this seam, and on older boats this is what we would do at a yard to make a permanent fix. These two parts do not need to flex independently; they were just built separately and they caulked them together. Or at a bare minimum, if I were keeping the caulk system, I would dig out the caulk, reef out the first inch-ish of core, and backfill with thickened epoxy, then re-caulk.)

But that's for another day. For survey day just pay particular attention to this area. So you know if you have any damp or wet core, and what the extent of it is. You can also look around for obvious brown stains (these can indicate that water has flowed into the core, and basically leeched some of the woodiness out of it, making the water turn brown). This can also have a bit of a sweet/rotten smell.

This can all be repaired, but you want to know what you are getting.

2) I have had an experience (ironically on a NT 26) where during the survey they would NOT run the boat up to WOT. As if the engine were fine china. Broker/cap't basically refused. IMO, this is wrong, and it should be run up to WOT for two reasons.

a) Let it run at WOT for long enough to make sure it's not overheating (cooler clogged, etc.) or tending to creep up and up in temp. This doesn't have to be a super long time, but long enough to find out.

b) To make sure the boat will make rated WOT (or what RPM it will make at WOT) for your particular engine. (Or if it won't, consider that in your negotiations.).

Happy survey day!
Click to expand...
Thanks so much! I will take a look to see how the salon is attached to the pilothouse on this one. The boat is a bit of a special one (or a weird one) as it was actually born as a Nordic Cricket, but a previous owner converted it to the Tug model - they also had great craftsmanship / shipwright capabilities as it's nearly identical to a factory built boat of that time.
 
SeaWoof said:
Thanks so much! I will take a look to see how the salon is attached to the pilothouse on this one. The boat is a bit of a special one (or a weird one) as it was actually born as a Nordic Cricket, but a previous owner converted it to the Tug model - they also had great craftsmanship / shipwright capabilities as it's nearly identical to a factory built boat of that time.
Click to expand...
Is it the one listed on Boat Trader?
 
We are owners of a 1988 NT 26. Yanmar 4LHTE engine, too big for the boat but that's what she came with. We looked at just about every 26 we could find before we landed on ours.

Just remember you are looking at an old boat. You will have plenty to keep you busy. The points about the joint are valid. The side walkways trap water, unfortunately by design. The cockpit drains on ours are about a half inch higher than the deck. Real nice, Clark. The painted water line shows the problem. But we deal with it. If it's been on a trailer without the tongue about four feet in the air, you may see problems. Not the end of the world, but beware.

And we love this boat. Would love to chat more if you go through with the purchase. Heck, come look at ours, we are on Hood Canal.
 
Frosty said:
2) I have had an experience (ironically on a NT 26) where during the survey they would NOT run the boat up to WOT. As if the engine were fine china. Broker/cap't basically refused. IMO, this is wrong, and it should be run up to WOT for two reasons.

a) Let it run at WOT for long enough to make sure it's not overheating (cooler clogged, etc.) or tending to creep up and up in temp. This doesn't have to be a super long time, but long enough to find out.

b) To make sure the boat will make rated WOT (or what RPM it will make at WOT) for your particular engine. (Or if it won't, consider that in your negotiations.).
Click to expand...
@Frosty brings up a good point - many owners will not permit their boat to be run at WOT. I would want to know this ahead of time - it might be a disqualifying condition for me unless the boat's condition and valuation are advertised as old/fragile/you-get-what-you-get. That said, makes me nervous to think of my ancient Perkins run at WOT, but that's how the engine is designed and if she won't do it, there's an issue. As a tip, someone who is not the buyer should be running the boat. If anything happens, the owner/captain/seller's broker should be at the helm. You can ask for tight figure 8s or whatever, but it's up to the seller to demonstrate.....or not.

Sea trial is your one time to demonstrate everything. Buyers often give short-shrift to electronics. Make sure the autopilot works on all functions including NAV if so equipped. Make sure the radar works. Make sure the boat icon on the chart plotter is squarely pointed in the right direct, not cocked to one side or the other. Problems with electronics can be difficult to rectify and sometimes require very expensive technicians. Or you end up living with the fault forever. My AIS icon is cocked 90-degrees and I cannot figure it out and Simrad is no help. I know this is a pretty small boat and it may not have much aboard, but make sure everything that's aboard is checked. If there's a water heater, make sure it works on both AC as well as via engine heated circuit (if so equipped).

Here's a check-list for a sea trial HERE. By the time you check the anchor windlass, dinghy/OB (if presented), and electronics, I'd plan on at least 3-hours. This isn't a joy ride - no 'tourists.' Spouse and if you have a knowledgeable friend, great. But this isn't a joy ride. All systems and components should be demonstrated. I'm not saying everything is a negotiable item - that's a decision you'll have to make. But go into it eyes-wide-open so you know what's in store for you.

Good luck - a ton of very good experience on this forum. Good friendly contributions too - ask any/all questions.

Peter
 
SeaWoof said:
Nah, not that one. But that one sure is interesting! Will post photos once we get to the next stage of things here :)
Click to expand...
I was just curious because I am always looking at Nordic listings and don't often see any listed as the cricket model. Good luck!
 
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mvweebles said:
@Frosty brings up a good point - many owners will not permit their boat to be run at WOT. I would want to know this ahead of time - it might be a disqualifying condition for me unless the boat's condition and valuation are advertised as old/fragile/you-get-what-you-get. That said, makes me nervous to think of my ancient Perkins run at WOT, but that's how the engine is designed and if she won't do it, there's an issue. As a tip, someone who is not the buyer should be running the boat. If anything happens, the owner/captain/seller's broker should be at the helm. You can ask for tight figure 8s or whatever, but it's up to the seller to demonstrate.....or not.

Sea trial is your one time to demonstrate everything. Buyers often give short-shrift to electronics. Make sure the autopilot works on all functions including NAV if so equipped. Make sure the radar works. Make sure the boat icon on the chart plotter is squarely pointed in the right direct, not cocked to one side or the other. Problems with electronics can be difficult to rectify and sometimes require very expensive technicians. Or you end up living with the fault forever. My AIS icon is cocked 90-degrees and I cannot figure it out and Simrad is no help. I know this is a pretty small boat and it may not have much aboard, but make sure everything that's aboard is checked. If there's a water heater, make sure it works on both AC as well as via engine heated circuit (if so equipped).

Here's a check-list for a sea trial HERE. By the time you check the anchor windlass, dinghy/OB (if presented), and electronics, I'd plan on at least 3-hours. This isn't a joy ride - no 'tourists.' Spouse and if you have a knowledgeable friend, great. But this isn't a joy ride. All systems and components should be demonstrated. I'm not saying everything is a negotiable item - that's a decision you'll have to make. But go into it eyes-wide-open so you know what's in store for you.

Good luck - a ton of very good experience on this forum. Good friendly contributions too - ask any/all questions.

Peter
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed response Peter. Certainly a lot to take in for my first survey / sea trial experience!

The boat is pretty simple in systems, so that helps a little. No autopilot, no radar... just a GPS chart plotter and transducer that I will be replacing / upgrading in due time. Will be giving a good run through of everything else that can be thought of on it. That check list of yours will be a great help for myself (and for checking against what the surveyors detail).

There will be 4 of us aboard during the trial. The main surveyor, the marine mechanic (looking over engine etc), owner and myself. Oh and they will also be doing an oil sampling for good measure.

I'm looking to learn as much about the boats operations as possible during the time as well.

Now time to get some rest - big day tomorrow!
 
"...they will also be doing an oil sampling for good measure."

For clarification, this is not for good measure - this is an essential part of the engine survey. Make sure samples are also take of the transmission and the generator. If there are previous oil analysis records, be sure to have surveyor compare them.
 
Judy at JWY said:
"...they will also be doing an oil sampling for good measure."

For clarification, this is not for good measure - this is an essential part of the engine survey. Make sure samples are also take of the transmission and the generator. If there are previous oil analysis records, be sure to have surveyor compare them.
Click to expand...
Thanks Judy. I will instruct that they do so!
 
mvweebles said:
@Frosty brings up a good point - many owners will not permit their boat to be run at WOT. I would want to know this ahead of time - it might be a disqualifying condition for me unless the boat's condition and valuation are advertised as old/fragile/you-get-what-you-get.
Click to expand...
Interestingly in the case I described, it was the broker running the boat for the sea trial, and he said something to the effect of "we never run up to WOT on sea trials." I was agape. Seemed unprofessional to me. But so in that case it didn't seem like it was a specific request by the seller.

Until then, it wasn't something I would have asked about ahead of time. I would have assumed it was obvious that it's part of any thorough sea trial.
 
Frosty said:
Interestingly in the case I described, it was the broker running the boat for the sea trial, and he said something to the effect of "we never run up to WOT on sea trials." I was agape. Seemed unprofessional to me. But so in that case it didn't seem like it was a specific request by the seller.

Until then, it wasn't something I would have asked about ahead of time. I would have assumed it was obvious that it's part of any thorough sea trial.
Click to expand...
Topic comes up on TF from time to time. There are a very vocal set of owners who would not permit a WOT run on their boat ("Over my dead body you will!! It's an old boat and an old engine - you get what you get!") Enough of them that I would definitely ask ahead of time to possibly spare the expense of a surveyor and mechanic.

Peter
 
mvweebles said:
Topic comes up on TF from time to time. There are a very vocal set of owners who would not permit a WOT run

Peter
Click to expand...
In this case it was the policy of an entire large brokerage (whose agents run their listed boats at sea trial). Apparently nothing to do with an owner request. After that experience, I would always ask ahead of time. To me, if an engine is too fragile to withstand a couple minutes of WOT, that's a definite negotiating (or eliminating) factor in buying a boat.
 
Frosty said:
In this case it was the policy of an entire large brokerage (whose agents run their listed boats at sea trial). Apparently nothing to do with an owner request. After that experience, I would always ask ahead of time. To me, if an engine is too fragile to withstand a couple minutes of WOT, that's a definite negotiating (or eliminating) factor in buying a boat.
Click to expand...
Unless the owner is present and consents to WOT, no other person should run at WOT unless you are a lawyer and it does not cost to defend yourself.
Topic comes up on TF from time to time. There are a very vocal set of owners who would not permit a WOT run on their boat ("Over my dead body you will!! It's an old boat and an old engine - you get what you get!") Enough of them that I would definitely ask ahead of time to possibly spare the expense of a surveyor and mechanic.
Click to expand...
Also many that only run 50% of expected WOT RPM so the engine does not break.
 
@SteveK
Unless the owner is present and consents to WOT, no other person should run at WOT unless you are a lawyer and it does not cost to defend yourself.

I had never found that to be the case with any other sea trial. Whether or not the owner was present. The broker has obviously been given consent to show/run the boat.

Now if a particular owner says "OMG no, don't run the engine at WOT!" then of course that needs to be honored. (Though of course that shows that either the engine may be weak, the heat exchanger clogged, or the owner doesn't understand diesels, none of which are good signs.)

But typically the owner trusts that the captain/broker know what they are doing (again, unless they know that something is particularly fragile or broken).

Why would you need to have a lawyer to run an engine at WOT? It's not unusual to do. What next, "don't turn the refrigerator temp down too low!" "You can try the shower, but don't make it too hot!" A diesel engine is perfectly capable of running at WOT for some period of time. It's not a china cup.

If they can never run it at WOT, then how did they ascertain the prop was the correct one?

Seriously, it's normal on a sea trial to run the engine at WOT. It's weird not to. May mean something, may not, but it's not a great sign.
 
@Frosty you manage to misread my words often.
The agent or myself will not run at WOT for fear of the engine blowing up without the owner present consenting. You are American and suing is in your blood.
 
I agree. During my survey the broker advised me to run WOT and make sharp turns lock to lock, the wakes and froth were amazing! But yeah, so was the noise.

It did make spec 2800 rpm, so all was good. I don't run there often but good to know if strong opposing current.

And I agree again. If the owner will not allow this, test over, back to dock, no sale.
 
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