Starlink cell service

[Bmarler]

I read that starlink has tested and will be rolling out cell phone service to android and iPhones soon. They are claiming global coverage with no special equipment. Haven’t heard how much they’ll be gouging, ahem, charging for it.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

T Mobile is allowing you to beta test, even if you are not a subscriber. Give it a shot and report!

 

[tiltrider1]

I am not up to date on this. I do know that about a year ago, starlink was performing cell to satellite tests. The tests were very successful. They were even successfully communicating from with in a parking garage.

The question on everyone’s mind was, were they going to try and compete directly with the big cell companies or were they going to compete for the cell tower business?

I haven’t heard anything official from starlink on which direction they are intending to go.

 

[Larry M]

It looks like you can only send and receive text messages. They say voice will be available as the technology develops.

Starlink Expands to iPhone and Android Users, but There's a Catch

Say goodbye to dead zones. Starlink's satellite network now lets you send texts on your iPhone or Android without cell service, but there are limits.

www.cnet.com

 

[twistedtree]

Is anyone using the Apple satellite service that is free and included in iPhone 14 and later phones? It uses a different satellite constellation, and I have done one test text to confirm it works, which it does.

 

[tiltrider1]

I see starlink is marketing the future release of Business Plans for direct cell to satellite communications. They leave a lot unsaid.

So, OP might be correct. We do know they are developing the technology. We just don’t know what their plan is.

 

[SteveK]

Currently WIFI calling, text and email works well thru Starlink. Does this new plan eliminate your need to have a starlink antenna and go direct to the satelittes. The latter I have trouble envisioning, mind you Gene Rodenbery did it back in the 70's with those communicators.

 

[tiltrider1]

Currently WIFI calling, text and email works well thru Starlink. Does this new plan eliminate your need to have a starlink antenna and go direct to the satelittes. The latter I have trouble envisioning, mind you Gene Rodenbery did it back in the 70's with those communicators.

Yes, starlink is pushing past the antenna WiFi for direct cell to satellite communications. I have a need for this. I often find myself on the back edge of ski resorts with no cell service. Cost will still be a determining factor.

 

[Larry M]

That’s the plan. What I don’t get, if you will be able to go phone to sat for texting, phone, browsing, etc. with no dish, what’s the final cost. They must be making money on the hardware now and they are going to give that up?

 

[Bmarler]

I looked at T-Mobile (who is my carrier already) and the satellite texting direct from my phone is available now if I sign up. If I don't sign up now, they will automatically add it to my existing plan in the near future. It looks like no added cost for the moment. I'm sure a data plan would be a different story, but we'll see. Also curious if my 5g home internet device will connect. Time will tell.

 

[mvweebles]

I too have T-Mobile. Here's a screenshot of the offer I received a month of so ago. Beta testing and no charge through July. Text only. No word on future price model. I'd be mildly curious about the terrestrial architecture. World is moving fast.....

Peter

 

[tpbrady]

It’s going to be a while before the service gets beyond the text only stage. SpaceX needs some more Direct to Cell satellites into space, needs their next generation satellites to potentially handle voice, and probably yet another generation to provide some limited data service. The data service for browsing will probably look like early 3g. Apple is planning a comparable text service using GlobalStar after they took a 20% equity position for a couple billion. SpaceX is using frequencies native to cell phones currently licensed to T-mobile. Apple/Globalstar are using what is called mobile satellite service (MSS) which is why it is limited to later model IPhones. The frequencies are comparable. The challenge they both have to overcome is establish a link between a cell phone and a tower 3-400 miles away.

Tom

 

[tiltrider1]

That’s the plan. What I don’t get, if you will be able to go phone to sat for texting, phone, browsing, etc. with no dish, what’s the final cost. They must be making money on the hardware now and they are going to give that up?

The profit in the hardware pales compared to the profits on the monthly subscription fees.

 

[rtn1]

I'm a T mobile subscriber with an iPhone 15 Pro. I used the Apple sat service last summer in areas around Catalina where there is no cell connection. Text only, quite slow, 500 characters maximum message size and you need to orient your phone to the satilite with a clear view of the sky. 2 weeks ago, after signing up for the Starlink Beta program I tried that in the same areas and had similar results, through I did receive one text while inside the boat.

I heard T mobile plans to begin charging for the service in July (2025) at an unknown rate.

Glad to see this technology developing but right now getting and maintaining the connection is inconvenient since to get an incoming text you have to know it's coming and make sure your phone is connected to the sat.

Roger

 

[dqking]

It’s going to be a while before the service gets beyond the text only stage. SpaceX needs some more Direct to Cell satellites into space, needs their next generation satellites to potentially handle voice, and probably yet another generation to provide some limited data service. The data service for browsing will probably look like early 3g. Apple is planning a comparable text service using GlobalStar after they took a 20% equity position for a couple billion. SpaceX is using frequencies native to cell phones currently licensed to T-mobile. Apple/Globalstar are using what is called mobile satellite service (MSS) which is why it is limited to later model IPhones. The frequencies are comparable. The challenge they both have to overcome is establish a link between a cell phone and a tower 3-400 miles away.

Tom

I can add a little bit. having worked on Starlink propulsion for six years. The guy who took the leadership role over direct to cell (and propulsion) was a principal from Swarm Satellites, which SpaceX bought. The limitations come from the fact that each satellite can paint a given area which means for 1 user you've got many gigabits of available bandwidth. For a dense area like a city, if we were to envision all T-Mobile users were all satellite, data rate per user would be terrible. But the number of satellites with direct to cell capability is growing every week so bandwidth per potential user is growing. What are the specifics? I don't know, I'm the retired propulsion guy, not the radio guy. I'm signed up for the beta test and I'll know more once they turn it on for my type of android phone. Stay tuned.

 

[tpbrady]

Without getting too technical, the radio channel used in the Starlink direct to cell is 5 MHz wide. That can’t provide many bits per second. The problem is one of energy per bit. You have to have enough energy in the transmission from the satellite for the phone’s receiver to use it. The satellites are using phased array antennas that are 9x8 feet, the size driven by the lower frequency and the need for as much energy per bit so the phone can receive it and so the bits from the phone can be received by the satellite. This is a very difficult engineering challenge.

The preliminary results are just about what you would expect. Anyone who has used an Iridium phone, InReach, or Spot knows the idiosyncrasies of using them, and they were designed to work only with satellites. Cell phones and their antennas have to cover from around 700 MHz up to 3 GHz and beyond. Building the electronics, battery, display, and antenna into a handheld device is way above my pay grade. If it gets beyond text messages anytime soon, I would be surprised. For boats, cell amplifiers with good antennas may come back into play as this service develops.

Tom

 

[Fvanzanden]

I read that starlink has tested and will be rolling out cell phone service to android and iPhones soon. They are claiming global coverage with no special equipment. Haven’t heard how much they’ll be gouging, ahem, charging for it.

This is an offer between T mobile and starlink, they are in the beta testing. I remember seeing something that they plan to add this feature for about an extra $15 per month. I'm sure you can find more info on the T-Mobile site

 

[folivier]

Got an email from Tmobile yesterday, if I change my cell plan to Tmobile from ATT they'll give me free satelite text for a year. No other details since I won't change.

 

[tpbrady]

What’s T-Mobile from ATT?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Anyone have real world experience with direct to satellite signal penetration through buildings or vehicles? Is that a stand outside technology, or a potential replacement for cellular?

 

[tpbrady]

For the most part it’s going to be stand outside. The early generation satellite phones and text devices were stand outside, although I had some success while sitting in tents in the rain. They have gotten better over time but you still need to be outside to insure service. The best indicator of how well the services will work inside, is if the GPS in the phone works. Over time the sensitivity of GPS receivers has improved substantially as has antenna performance. However in the case of direct to cell services, this improvement may be cancelled by shared use of the frequencies being used. There is a lot wrangling in front of the FCC on this issue.

Tom

 

[folivier]

I currently have ATT service. Tmobile offered this if I change to their service.
I've seen reports of Starlink mini working through skylights, windshields, inside of a Pelican case, inside of a Jeep with fiberglass roof. So it will be interesting to see how well cell phones work using Starlink direct service. Inside if you're near a window? Maybe.

 

[tpbrady]

Maybe is the right term. Depends on the coating on the glass. Some attenuate radio signals quite a bit.

 

[tiltrider1]

Several years ago Musk threatened to introduce a Tesla Phone. I am surprised that he is offering to work with TMobile. He has quite an advantage with Starlink.