Stability at anchor on 50+ ft trawlers

[Landshark]

So times have changed and I'm back in the market for a boat (soon). My eye has turned towards 50-60ft Nordhavn, Selene, KK, etc types. I want something with a long range and that can operate for weeks or even months off grid. (My background is a sailboat sailor and I've spent many years in the Caribe in far off places avoiding marinas and exploring quiet places.) I want to go far again but this time I'm wanting a trawler.

Now my question, coming from ignorance, is how comfortable are these trawlers at anchor? I know the smaller vessels often deploy flopper stoppers, however, I don't see this often on the bigger boats. I'm assuming that at some point the anchor stabilization system just gets too big and cumbersome? How do people in say a Selene 60 handle a rolly anchorage? Is the size and stability of the boat just "good"? Do they run a generator the whole time and keep stabilizers on?

Some background - Last boat was a 44ft long 25ft wide sailing catamaran. Most anchorages were comfortable and no problem on that platform. I'm worried going to a trawler will make my partner seas sick at anchor and we tend to spend MOST of our time on the boat in anchorages.

Curious to hear thoughts on this.

Picking a protected anchorage is more important than any mechanical solution to rolling at anchor.

 

[Symphony]

I wish an actual user of Humphree or Waveless or Quantum-eFin or CMC would chime in.

 

[socalrider]

These guys are pretty effective. Much better if you have something to pole them out like the Forespar system mvweebles suggests. Way way cheaper than any kind of gyro/fin setup. I've never been able to hear any noise from them.

FlopStopper.com

Certainly better to pick a good anchorage, but here in SoCal that's not always an option.

Here's another Tenant power cat FS in the PNW similar to DOMINO - accommodations are a bit spare but what a platform!

Malcolm Tennant 68 Power in Tacoma, WA, US — Catamaran For Sale By Broker – CatamaranSite

M/Y Awesome is a Tacoma, WA, US based 1993 Malcolm Tennant Awesome catamaran for sale by broker at a terrific price. View pricing, specifications, and photos. Contact catamaran broker.

www.catamaransite.com

 

[Captain DJ]

This couple designed and built a boat for extensive circumnavigation and anchoring most nights in remote Anchorages around the world. A radically new-ish concept of Long, Lean, Light, and Efficient: Maybe you will glean an idea or two. I really enjoyed the concept and build of the boat:

Archives | Möbius World

mobius.world

 

[Earrame]

Our solution to this problem has been to attach a"spring" to the anchor rode- tie a line to the rode ( preferably nylon for some elasticity but anything will do) and let out about half a boat length of rode. Then attach the inboard end of the line to a midship or aft cleat and by adjusting the tension on that you can "twist" the boat to face the swell. Your regular anchor snubber or bridle should not be affected. Have enough length on the "spring" to adjust from onboard as required. You do need to consider the extra load this puts on the anchor and I wouldn't try it in a gale. It probably won't work in every situation but it's easy to deploy, easy to retrieve, and free!

 

[JOHN CLAYMAN]

You are wise to raise the question of at anchor stabilization as you transition from a sailing cat to a trawler. Of course, multihulls enjoy excellent initial stability, while a proper trawler hull will roll, the roll period should be engineered for comfort as a snappy roll in say a hard chine boat can be exhausting or even dangerous to the crew. As an MIT trained Naval Architect, I would suggest carefully considering the characteristics of a particular trawler before making a committment.. Some of the most popular trawlers have a very high vertical center of gravity which induces roll and also pitching both at anchor and underway. Many trawler owners do not realize they could be enjoying a better experience aboard a more seakindly boat because they lack the esperience and constext to know differently. My observation also is that many trawler designers do not fully appreciate how the ditributuon of mass contributes to comfort.

There now are a number of zero speed solutions. I would be happy to chat with you privately about the pros & cons of your options for stablization and various trawlers on the market.

 

[AndreHuizing]

Live aboards on 62’ trawler. A real trawler will roll and is typically “tender”. Although the more modern ones like some Nordhavns have quite an extreme A/B ratio which calls for heavy ballasting and creating a “stiffer” boat…which typically is more uncomfortable.
If you choose your anchorage well the rolly part comes when the wind dies (in the evening). Our solution is a good stern anchor setup. Works good in most cases here in the Med.

 

[mvweebles]

Picking a protected anchorage is more important than any mechanical solution to rolling at anchor.

Any tips on finding protected 'non-rolly' anchorages on the Pacific Coast besides staying in marinas (of which some areas have none)?

Peter

 

[Mac2]

Any tips on finding protected 'non-rolly' anchorages on the Pacific Coast besides staying in marinas (of which some areas have none)?

Peter

Don’t forget about those that never anchor off a lee shore. Can we add those tips to your list?

 

[socalrider]

Any tips on finding protected 'non-rolly' anchorages on the Pacific Coast besides staying in marinas (of which some areas have none)?

Peter

Yes. Only anchor in SF Bay, San Diego Bay, Mission Bay, or Cat Harbor.

You're welcome!

 

[High Wire]

The OP should consider chartering a monohull of the size in consideration in the Bahamas before committing to a purchase. You will find out if your other half can tolerate the motion.

 

[capran]

IMHO it's not so much about comfort as it is about hull noise. My full time summers boating experience has been: Pearson 26- 7 yrs Bahamas, Newport 30- 7 years PNW, Catalina 34-5 yrs Bahamas, Catalina 34-17 years PNW, and Helmsman 38-3 years PNW. It's not the motion but the hull noise. The water slapping in the trawler even in very mild chop is surprisingly nosier than any of the sailboats. Motion is probably more pronounced in the sailboat. I do wish I would have rented a trawler for a few weeks before purchase.

 

[Mac2]

IMHO it's not so much about comfort as it is about hull noise. My full time summers boating experience has been: Pearson 26- 7 yrs Bahamas, Newport 30- 7 years PNW, Catalina 34-5 yrs Bahamas, Catalina 34-17 years PNW, and Helmsman 38-3 years PNW. It's not the motion but the hull noise. The water slapping in the trawler even in very mild chop is surprisingly nosier than any of the sailboats. Motion is probably more pronounced in the sailboat. I do wish I would have rented a trawler for a few weeks before purchase.

Maybe your Helmsman is built to well? Remove the sound deading insulation in the engine room and that should reduce hearing the hull slap

 

[Mambo42]

I wish an actual user of Humphree or Waveless or Quantum-eFin or CMC would chime in.

I have waveless stab 25 and we are fully stabilized at anchor. Waveless is part of CMC and they were the first with electric fins. Since they only use electricity when in use (and even then the usage is minimal) there is no need to switch them off.
As a result we happily anchor in places where others don't want to anchor. In fact we don't even take the conditions into consideration, as long as we are not in 4 to 5+ feet waves head on (which causes uncomfortable pitching) we will be fine.
We are also stabilized in port, the fins will work there as well and of course underway they also function. So to put it simple, we are always fully stabilized and that has increased the use of our boat drastically. Where we normally had to take shelter we can now stay out. We don't need to worry about a sudden change of the weather, it is not going to affect us.
The admiral and our dogs would get sea sick in bad weather..............those days are over, none of them gets sea sick anymore and a healthy crew is a happy ship (yacht in this case).
So yes, I can say that CMC / waveless does deliver what they promise to deliver.
The only thing I am not so happy about is the idea they have that maintenance should cost an arm and a leg. They keep the process (which is extremely simple) a well guarded secret, but once I can put it on video it will be out there and the days of squeezing users for simple maintenance are over. There is no need to have to pay 15.000 USD to change 2 seals.

 

[BVrolyk]

I don't know if I suck at picking anchorages, just sail in places where it is tough, or maybe I'm more sensitive than most of you. I have over 1000 nights at anchor (from 10 years of liveaboard cruising), in both a monohull and a catamaran. My memories of the monohull include often getting waked, getting rocked in bad weather even in protected waters, and some really bad times with swell that wraps around a headland.

The catamaran made life a lot more comfortable from that perspective. A huge wake from a passing boat no longer woke us up or knocked things off counters. Swell could be bad but wasn't that bad.

Maybe my memories are inaccurate or maybe I just wasn't as experienced back then. I just don't want to spend a million bucks on a boat and then decide it sucks at anchor compared to our much cheaper sailing catamaran.

I'm not opposed to installing a flopper stopper, I just don't know how troublesome it is when you're talking a 60ft boat or if it is worth it.

We put flopper stoppers on either side of our 68,000 pound schooner. On a mooring at Catalina they only lasted about 2 hours before they were destroyed by the loads. I'd stay away from them on heavy boats.

 

[rslifkin]

We put flopper stoppers on either side of our 68,000 pound schooner. On a mooring at Catalina they only lasted about 2 hours before they were destroyed by the loads. I'd stay away from them on heavy boats.

That just means the system you were using was under-designed for your boat. There's no reason an adequate setup couldn't be built.

 

[guy with a boat]

That just means the system you were using was under-designed for your boat. There's no reason an adequate setup couldn't be built.

Agreed. The system just has to be sized to the boat.

 

[bkcorwin]

On our Nordhavn 62 we deploy our vaned flopper stoppers a lot even in calm anchorages. We've found while the boat still rolls with them deployed it dramatically reduces the amount of motion. Even in a calm anchorage in AK or the San Juans we've deployed them because a cruise ship or tug going by can throw up a pretty good wake. The perk of our boat is the poles are permanently mounted and the system is really easy and fast to deploy.

Then, moving down the pacific coast and into Mexico again we've tended to use them at most spots because of afternoon/evening winds that can come up suddenly and cause rolling. Sea of Cortez can get some serious winds blowing through even the "protected" anchorages down there. We ran them in Mag Bay just because the bay has so much fetch.

Do we need them to not get sick or uncomfortable? No, but why not put them out if you've got em.

Without them the boats can and do move but it depends on mass and hull shape how it feels. An example is our 62 (have 10knm on) rolls differently than a N68 (have about 1000nm on). Not less or more, but different.

In either case, I'm really glad I have my flopper stoppers.

 

[Greg QS]

I cannot speak for the full displacement . I have a 61 semi displacement. Really no issues with protected anchorages . 70,0000 lbs. Takes something to get it going. I have more an issue with sailing on the hook in high wind conditions. I have just completed installing a Gyro. Still waiting on the commissioning phase. This opens up pretty much anchoring anywhere. I have found that with the size of the boat I am more restricted in protected anchorages and forced to anchor in non protected anchorages.

 

[sunchaser]

Very impressive, where can I find more details on your boat or others like it?

Yes, many power cats are indeed long range. A little research will find a few New Zealand builders of long range power cats. This said, my first consideration has always been Nordhavn as there are many built, lots of owner experience and fabulous product support even on 25 year old vessels.

If your focus is stability at anchor Nordhavn has good build experience on zero speed and other at rest systems. Have you looked at Elling mono hulls? There are so many good choices if one has liquid and disposable funds.