Sionyx

[FWT]

Nightwave

New product. Hard wired. The price is right.

 

[mcarthur]

40 degree field of view, if for a 35mm equivalent sensor, would be a 50mm lens (if they mean horizontal FOV vs vertical vs diagonal - which would be a 60mm lens). Pity it's not a zoom though. RRP seems to be US$1600 - hows that compare to IR-based systems?

 

[Comodave]

I have one of their handheld units. It hooks up wirelessly to my iPad. Works pretty good in low light, but it does need some light unlike IR ones. But it was way cheaper than IR.

 

[twistedtree]

I have one of their handheld units. It hooks up wirelessly to my iPad. Works pretty good in low light, but it does need some light unlike IR ones. But it was way cheaper than IR.

I think that's the difference. A low light camera can go a long way, but it's not the same as a thermal camera that shows heat images.

 

[FWT]

I think that's the difference. A low light camera can go a long way, but it's not the same as a thermal camera that shows heat images.

My best understanding, so correct me if I'm wrong:

IR works best in the first half of the night, when the thermal difference between water and other objects is highest, but degrades deeper into the night as the object's temperatures converge on the ambient temps of the water and air. This would not apply to a man overboard situation, just in a navigation assist need.

Low light technology needs SOME light. Cloudy / stormy conditions away from land (with its light polution near developed areas) are problematic.

Neither are great in fog or rain, but the low light perhaps a shade better.

Correct?

 

[Fletcher500]

Thanks for the Link.

I have a hand held Flir (640 I believe) and I have never been overly impressed with it. I was planning on a larger hard wired Flir to be mounted on the arch, but could not get past the price for the image resolution it provided, so I never pulled the trigger. This was based on my use of the handheld Flir unit, and from feedback from people on forums who have the larger (more $) hard wired Flir systems. Although, I have a feeling TT will say they are great if he has one.

After spending some time reading about these SiOnyx cameras, and watching a lot of videos that were posted by the company as well as actual users who are not being paid, the camera image provided at night appears to be better than a Flir. Do I have proof of that - no. I just got the camera yesterday and I am currently setting it up and plan on using it soon.

 

[Comodave]

I would love a fixed FLIR camera but it is just too much money. We used to go out at night all the time when we worked with the CG but since we retired we only go out on the 4th of July mostly. Can’t justify the cost for one night a year or so.

 

[FWT]

Thanks for the Link.

I have a hand held Flir (640 I believe) and I have never been overly impressed with it. I was planning on a larger hard wired Flir to be mounted on the arch, but could not get past the price for the image resolution it provided, so I never pulled the trigger. This was based on my use of the handheld Flir unit, and from feedback from people on forums who have the larger (more $) hard wired Flir systems. Although, I have a feeling TT will say they are great if he has one.

After spending some time reading about these SiOnyx cameras, and watching a lot of videos that were posted by the company as well as actual users who are not being paid, the camera image provided at night appears to be better than a Flir. Do I have proof of that - no. I just got the camera yesterday and I am currently setting it up and plan on using it soon.

I would really like to hear your opinions on this after you have given it a good field test.

I am leaning to going down your path.

 

[FWT]

For what its worth, I was talking with an electronics dealer today and this topic came up.

They are getting their hands on the first unit next week. They are impressed with what they have seen thus far. Installation is easy via an HDMI plug, and easier than most camera systems that require an interface box between the camera and MFD. Some limited image stablization that helps, but isn't as strong as the Flir units that cost $10k, but at the price this was said to be a deal.

Such a deal, with such easy installation, it was said to be easier to install than most simple backup cameras. The idea was floated to use this unit for that purpose too even though the night vision aspect isn't the goal for this purpose.

I take it more is about to come out quite soon.

 

[Helmsman]

I bought a SiOnyx Black hand held unit. It works extremely well with little ambient light. I will use with a tripod and suction cups for the very few times I am out at night.

I have ordered an IR flashlight which will be used in extremely low light. The batteries on the SiOnyx black last two hours, and it comes with two of them. The video rendered on the tablet is much better than any of the replicated views in a video on line.

I communicated with Sionyx about the hard wired marine camera. They wouldn’t provide info on the differences in the video quality between it and the hand held unit. They did say it was different but said they had no comparable specifications, which I thought was odd.

If the hard wired camera is as good or better, then with a good IR flashlight it should work very well.

I plan to use the Sionyx black initially, and then, if I find it effective and the reviews of the Sionyx hard wired cameras as good as I think they will be, switching to one of those a little later.

 

[FWT]

I bought a SiOnyx Black hand held unit. It works extremely well with little ambient light. I will use with a tripod and suction cups for the very few times I am out at night.

I have ordered an IR flashlight which will be used in extremely low light. The batteries on the SiOnyx black last two hours, and it comes with two of them. The video rendered on the tablet is much better than any of the replicated views in a video on line.

I communicated with Sionyx about the hard wired marine camera. They wouldn’t provide info on the differences in the video quality between it and the hand held unit. They did say it was different but said they had no comparable specifications, which I thought was odd.

If the hard wired camera is as good or better, then with a good IR flashlight it should work very well.

I plan to use the Sionyx black initially, and then, if I find it effective and the reviews of the Sionyx hard wired cameras as good as I think they will be, switching to one of those a little later.

Thanks for that thumbs up on the handheld unit. Your plan has been my plan. But since I am a year behind you I may have a shot of installing the fixed unit with the comfort of seeing some field test reports.

Since the fixed units are hitting the dealers this week, at least a demo unit, we should be seeing more on this pretty soon.

 

[Helmsman]

Thanks for that thumbs up on the handheld unit. Your plan has been my plan. But since I am a year behind you I may have a shot of installing the fixed unit with the comfort of seeing some field test reports.

Since the fixed units are hitting the dealers this week, at least a demo unit, we should be seeing more on this pretty soon.

Yes, and if I had a year to see how others liked it, I might have done a permanent install with one initially.

 

[FWT]

Has anyone figured out good mounts for the handheld units?

I am about to pull the trigger on one, and would like to get the mounts figured out.

I'm thinking a small tripod for the helm dash / map table, tall enough to rise up to peak through the glass. And / or rail mount for the rail outside the helm station.

Thoughts and experiences welcomed.

 

[Fletcher500]

I used the Sionyx Pro for the last 7 months and that included quite a few early morning passages in and out marinas when it was still dark. It is currently mounted inside the pilot house on a Ram mount. My plan was to eventually upgrade to the hard wired system if it worked out, but I won’t be doing that.

Pros:
-It can see through glass with no issues. A Flir can not.
-For a night vision camera it is very reasonably priced at less than $1,000 depending on the model.
-Small, light weight, easily mounted inside or outside the boat on the railing.
-Works very well with any ambient light and that includes even partial moon and starlight.
-Helps to spot bouys at night, debris, and lobster pots which I started dodging in early October when the carpet bombing commenced.

Cons:
-The wifi is B minus at best and even if its 3 fto 4 ft away from the Ipad it can loose connection at times. Not often, but it does happen and of course at the worst time.
-As noted, there has to be some form of ambient light. I knew this upfront and the company says this as well. I had one instance when I was leaving port where it was foggy and there was absolutely no ambient light. No joy, and the system could not see. That was the nail in the coffin for me.
-I have used my Flir hand held often, and I have spoken to many people who have the much more expensive FLIR hard wired systems and just don't think either are worth the money, at least in this point in the technology cycle. I am sure people on here will have a different opion, but that is mine.

I run the boat solo a lot and I can’t take the chance of having it loose connection on a night run in or out of a marina (the screen freezes, so you may not even realize it for a few minutes). And, on the rare occasion when there is absolutely no ambient light it won’t work. If you had a second person who could monitor it, then it may be more beneficial.

I am still using it and actually have it running often during the day in busy areas so I can monitor a blind spot on the starboard side helm window.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Cons:
-The wifi is B minus at best and even if its 3 fto 4 ft away from the Ipad it can loose connection at times.

Too bad there is no hardwire option for video output.

 

[FWT]

Fletcher:

Yes, I do understand it (and infrared Flir) has limitations. I hear a variety of opinions, such as it being helpful often enough to make it worth a go, to it being of no help often enough to make it not worthwhile. Eyes wide open about there being no magic here.

Which is one reason I'm going handheld, and not spending the bucks and drilling the holes for hard wired units. That of course with Flir quickly run up into a significant investment.

And I'm doing this despite not wanting to be reliant on a tablet for apps. But "going there" seems to be the least of evils.

I do like the handrail at the opening to the companionway to the master cabin. Did you install it, or was that added during your build?

 

[Fletcher500]

Agree, for the money and what they can do it’s not a bad thing to have around. I would estimate that at least 90 plus percent of any given evenings there is enough ambient light available and the image is very good.

At night I was also having information overload trying to keep track of the IPad image (and whether it was connected), looking at the radar, and navigating. If you had a second person to just monitor the IPad display and they could figure out quickly if it did loose connection and then re connect, it could be helpful for sure.

I am not aware of a hard wire connections to an IPad. If one comes out, you can go to the power outlet on the IPad because the battery will provide a good 2 hours. I found that to be enough for my use case of transiting in and out of harbors. When at sea, I rarely needed it and always had a charged battery ready to go.

Looking directly through the camera lense was not a viable option for me. I found the image to be too small. The FLIR handheld is better in that regard.

That stainless rail it’s mounted to is for the middle window power actuator.

 

[Helmsman]

I used the Sionyx Pro for the last 7 months and that included quite a few early morning passages in and out marinas when it was still dark. It is currently mounted inside the pilot house on a Ram mount. My plan was to eventually upgrade to the hard wired system if it worked out, but I won’t be doing that.

Pros:
-It can see through glass with no issues. A Flir can not.
-For a night vision camera it is very reasonably priced at less than $1,000 depending on the model.
-Small, light weight, easily mounted inside or outside the boat on the railing.
-Works very well with any ambient light and that includes even partial moon and starlight.
-Helps to spot bouys at night, debris, and lobster pots which I started dodging in early October when the carpet bombing commenced.

Cons:
-The wifi is B minus at best and even if its 3 fto 4 ft away from the Ipad it can loose connection at times. Not often, but it does happen and of course at the worst time.
-As noted, there has to be some form of ambient light. I knew this upfront and the company says this as well. I had one instance when I was leaving port where it was foggy and there was absolutely no ambient light. No joy, and the system could not see. That was the nail in the coffin for me.
-I have used my Flir hand held often, and I have spoken to many people who have the much more expensive FLIR hard wired systems and just don't think either are worth the money, at least in this point in the technology cycle. I am sure people on here will have a different opion, but that is mine.

I run the boat solo a lot and I can’t take the chance of having it loose connection on a night run in or out of a marina (the screen freezes, so you may not even realize it for a few minutes). And, on the rare occasion when there is absolutely no ambient light it won’t work. If you had a second person who could monitor it, then it may be more beneficial.

I am still using it and actually have it running often during the day in busy areas so I can monitor a blind spot on the starboard side helm window.

Bill,

Thanks for the great review. It is encouraging that it can "see" through the window. The intermittent connection is an issue with an IPad. I noticed that when I was showing it to @Helmsman 43.

I did not notice that as an issue with my Sailproof tablet. I have been meaning to go back and test with the Sailproof to see if the issue is with the IPad. I suspect it is, because the IPad is set to look for a WIFi network connected to the internet. Since the Sionyx isnt connected to the internet, the IPad looks for a different one. That search feature on the IPad might be able to be changed, I don't know.

The best answer for that is for Sionyx to set the camera up to log into a network as opposed to creating its own. That would it make it a much more useful tool.

 

[Greg QS]

I have a Night Track Camera black and white. Low light. Works phenomenal. I can see everything with any ambient light. If no light throw on the spot and you can see. Has an ir blaster to pop any reflector up to a mile away. listing now for $4500. Considerably less than the flair (cheap unit 8k) At 1500 in color. I don't think you can go wrong. Even if it works 1/2 as good as mine you should do it.

 

[Helmsman]

I was looking through some reviews for SiOnyx for the WiFi issue. The answer from the company is below. Apparently they state to put the IPad in airplane mode

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for taking the time to leave us a review. We're sorry about your current Aurora experience, but we are here to help!

Our IR kit includes a mount that allows you to directly attach the Aurora to the IR illuminator.

For app connections, please reach out to our support page via ticket or phone call and we can get you connected -https://support.sionyx.com/support/tickets/new
Support

If you are on an iOS device, we recommend putting airplane mode on to prevent any connection disruptions.

Please don't hesitate to reach out. You supported us and it's our turn to support you!

Best regards,
Justin
SIONYX Team

 

[Helmsman]

Here is a link to a video on the SiOnyx site with how to improve the WiFi

WIFI IMPROVEMENT & SAFETY UPDATE

 

[boomsurf]

I've got the discontinued Aurora Sport. I use it with a suction cup camera mount on the bridge and view on an iPad. I find that it works incredibly well. Even with just a tiny bit of moonlight its great. Especially nice when coming into a mooring field at night w zero viz and being able to clearly see everything.

 

[FWT]

Helmsman, thanks for that info.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The new Nightwave product you began this thread with has a hardwired connection to a monitor, FWT. Very slick.

Nightwave

 

[Fletcher500]

I was looking through some reviews for SiOnyx for the WiFi issue. The answer from the company is below. Apparently they state to put the IPad in airplane mode

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for taking the time to leave us a review. We're sorry about your current Aurora experience, but we are here to help!

Our IR kit includes a mount that allows you to directly attach the Aurora to the IR illuminator.

For app connections, please reach out to our support page via ticket or phone call and we can get you connected -https://support.sionyx.com/support/tickets/new
Support

If you are on an iOS device, we recommend putting airplane mode on to prevent any connection disruptions.

Please don't hesitate to reach out. You supported us and it's our turn to support you!

Best regards,
Justin
SIONYX Team

Nate, thanks for this. I actually sent Sionyx Tech Support an email this morning asking about this before I read your post. If airplane mode does not work, I found an old Samsung tablet that I will also try in case the Ipad continues to give me connection issues.

 

[Fletcher500]

I've got the discontinued Aurora Sport. I use it with a suction cup camera mount on the bridge and view on an iPad. I find that it works incredibly well. Even with just a tiny bit of moonlight its great. Especially nice when coming into a mooring field at night w zero viz and being able to clearly see everything.

Agree, the image is amazing and better than I had expected for the price. As I noted, there is often some ambient light available for it to work, but you will eventually run in to a situation where there is not. I did during a heavy marine layer/fog and both the star light and moonlight was blocked and the camera was not able to "see" anymore. Just noting that for others who are considering purchasing.

 

[Helmsman]

Nate, thanks for this. I actually sent Sionyx Tech Support an email this morning asking about this before I read your post. If airplane mode does not work, I found an old Samsung tablet that I will also try in case the Ipad continues to give me connection issues.

You're welcome. After you hit Airplane mode, then you have to hit the WiFi button right afterwards for it to work.

 

[FWT]

The new Nightwave product you began this thread with has a hardwired connection to a monitor, FWT. Very slick.

Nightwave

Yep. But too new to have any real world use reviews out there yet. Such as, does it prove to be water tight, including good weather sealing at electric connections?

So starting with the handheld unit until I prove to myself its all worth it. And can also just use it hand held to look at anything outside of the field of view of the fixed unit, such as at anchorage.

I have other non boating uses for it, so if I end up with an upgrade to the fixed unit its not money wasted.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Excellent points.