Running light lens replacement

[RedRascal]

I am trying to help find a replacement lens option for my buddy's CHB 34 port and starboard running lights. The housing is solid but the lens is not. Does a replacement exist? Perko makes a replacement lens but I am not sure that it would fit.

 

[koliver]

I am trying to help find a replacement lens option for my buddy's CHB 34 port and starboard running lights. The housing is solid but the lens is not. Does a replacement exist? Perko makes a replacement lens but I am not sure that it would fit.

I have done the headlight restoration on a car plastic headlight cover. That lens is made from a similar plastic, so the principals should apply equally well (or poorly, as it is still no substitute for the clarity of a new lens).
Using wet &dry paper, work your way up to 2000 or finer, then use a cut polish. You should get several years out of that restoration. It will at least give you time while you try to find a replacement.

 

[RedRascal]

One issue we're facing is only about 75% of the port lens remains. But your idea is worth a try on the white lights to clear those up, good one.

 

[koliver]

One issue we're facing is only about 75% of the port lens remains. But your idea is worth a try on the white lights to clear those up, good one.

AquaSignal sell replacement lights about the size you need.
https://www.aquasignal.com.au/product-category/port-starboard-classic/

 

[RedRascal]

We've looked at a few options and AquaSignal bubbled up to the top of the list. The AquaSignal 20 in black is the front runner right now for a replacement unless we can source new lenses. Thanks for chiming in and agree they "fit" size and style wise.

 

[Comodave]

I would just replace the whole light with an LED one. They use less power and are brighter. And once you replace it you will most likely never have another problem with it, no more burned out bulbs and corroded connections.

 

[koliver]

I would just replace the whole light with an LED one. They use less power and are brighter. And once you replace it you will most likely never have another problem with it, no more burned out bulbs and corroded connections.

I many years of safety checks, one of the more frequent issues is the fading/crazing/dulling of nav light lenses, often to the point that they are hardly visible. A few bulb failures too, but folks tend to notice that and fix it right away. The lens issues persist until the Safety Checker motivates the fix.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, indeed. And the old plastic doesn’t transmit the light nearly as well. When I am out at night I darn sure want the other boats to see me really well.

 

[Socal_Cecil]

Check out these guys catalog.

JM Reineck & Son

Expensive but all I've found so far. The spare parts are listed directly under the listing for the remanufactured lights. If you try them report back on the fit.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Might this lens be a candidate for 3D printing?

 

[Socal_Cecil]

Greetings,
Might this lens be a candidate for 3D printing?

I don't think so. Most of the filaments I've used aren't optically clear enough. The texture isn't great for transmitting light uniformly either.

 

[Nepidae]

With the important NEED of being seen at night, it might be prudent to buy new lights, especially IF you plan to run a lot at night.

Might also investigate all the other running & anchor light and see if they are visible and replace as necessary.

In the least you may want to switch the bulbs to LED.

 

[Comodave]

Running lights are certified with one bulb, changing to an LED may not meet the certification. I would just replace the whole running light, not that expensive.

 

[Socal_Cecil]

I was under the impression pre 1998 was grandfathered with lighting. As long as it meets location, direction, and candelas your fine.

 

[kthoennes]

This thread is a reassurance to me that I'm not the only boat owner who gets preoccupied or obsessive about single maintenance or replacement items, instead of throwing the old one overboard and making do with new. I cringe when I think about how much I paid to have the rusty wire shelf racks sandblasted and powder coated in the Norcold refrigerator that never worked well despite all my efforts, when I should have just tipped it off the aft deck into the ocean and been done with it.

Come to think of it, this also reminds me of a dock neighbor with a similar affliction. His wife laments that even if they won the Powerball and bought a superyacht, she's still stuck using a toaster from 1978 because he keeps fixing it and making it work. Someday I might see that toaster fly out their houseboat window and make a little splash.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. k. We're kindred spirits. I absolutely HATE to throw something out that works even if it doesn't work it's best or as well as a new one. Running lights, on the other hand are a very important safety item. A new unit(s) should last years.

 

[Comodave]

I was under the impression pre 1998 was grandfathered with lighting. As long as it meets location, direction, and candelas your fine.

Have not heard anything like that. There are so many things to consider about nav lights. The certification process takes them int account. I personally would not want to be involved in a collision after dark with unapproved nav lights. LEDs do not have a single element that the light is emitted from like incandescent lights do so the angle of light showing may be different ( direction). A good accident investigator will find the unapproved bulb and it may increase your liability.

 

[Socal_Cecil]

Have not heard anything like that. There are so many things to consider about nav lights. The certification process takes them int account. I personally would not want to be involved in a collision after dark with unapproved nav lights. LEDs do not have a single element that the light is emitted from like incandescent lights do so the angle of light showing may be different ( direction). A good accident investigator will find the unapproved bulb and it may increase your liability.

If it did apply every boat with original lights would be considered out of compliance. It's hard to keep track too when they have standards listed in 3 different places. Its long so I didn't paste everything but it is linked.

§ 25.10-1 Applicability.
This subpart applies to vessel manufacturers, distributors, and dealers installing navigation lights on all uninspected commercial vessels, except those completed before November 7, 2002.

§ 83.38 Exemptions (Rule 38).
Any vessel or class of vessels, the keel of which was laid or which was at a corresponding stage of construction before December 24, 1980, provided that she complies with the requirements of -

 

[kthoennes]

Oh great, now this discussion is prompting me to replace my cloudy, U/V damaged steaming light lenses, like these.

https://www.perko.com/catalog/spare_parts/613/225°_lenses_for_masthead_lights/

 

[RedRascal]

Okay here is how this played out. My buddy decided on the Aqua Signal Series 20 lights and I installed them. They "look" good to me but I would not recommend them. I'd go with a bigger light and they are fiddly to install. The issue I had was on the back of the light there are 2 pins that stick out and require drilling a couple holes in the mounting blocks. The tricky part is getting the lights parallel to the water, there isn't a flat surface on the light to use a level on so you kinda have to eyeball where you think level is.

As for the old lights I think it may be possible to use SeaDog replacement lenses however I never measured the SeaDog lenses.
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sea-dog-line-flush-mount-side-light-lense/400181-1
The lenses in the old lights were about 1 5/8" tall and 1 5/8" wide. The old lights could have been rebuilt but we didn't want to take the time to do that. It's a shame because the old lights were built to last and could keep going a long time with a rebuild.

Here are some pictures and I put red circles around the pins that stuck out on the back of the lights. The lights are held in place with double stick tape.

 

[jgwinks]

Have not heard anything like that. There are so many things to consider about nav lights. The certification process takes them int account. I personally would not want to be involved in a collision after dark with unapproved nav lights. LEDs do not have a single element that the light is emitted from like incandescent lights do so the angle of light showing may be different ( direction). A good accident investigator will find the unapproved bulb and it may increase your liability.

There's no "law" that says you can't do it, AYBC standards are voluntary. You can do whatever you want on your own boat. BUT, as Dave says if you have a collision and the other guy's lawyer sees that you altered the lights, you're going to lose. Even if your modified lights are much brighter and "better" than original (which they probably would be). Just get new LED fixtures.

 

[Portage_Bay]

There's no "law" that says you can't do it, AYBC standards are voluntary. You can do whatever you want on your own boat....

No, you can't do whatever you want on your own boat. There is law that defines nav light specifications. Colregs Part C Lights and Shapes and Annex 1 Positioning and Technical Detals of Lights and Shapes



Sent from my SM-T500 using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[jgwinks]

No, you can't do whatever you want on your own boat. There is law that defines nav light specifications. Colregs Part C Lights and Shapes and Annex 1 Positioning and Technical Detals of Lights and Shapes



Sent from my SM-T500 using Trawler Forum mobile app

Whatever you want within the parameters of Annex I. Putting LED bulbs in an old fixture would probably still meet Annex I and be brighter as well. But still not AYBC approved.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Whatever you want within the parameters of Annex I. Putting LED bulbs in an old fixture would probably still meet Annex I and be brighter as well. But still not AYBC approved.

My main point in my first response to you is that there is law that defines the specifications for nav lights. Regardless of what ABYC standards say about nav lights I will ensure my nav lights comply with the colregs. It's too important to ignore.

Putting LED bulbs in nav lights certified to meet colregs with incandescent bulbs will nullify that certification. Comodave in posts #13 and #17 is spot on.

Sent from my SM-T500 using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[Comodave]

Whatever you want within the parameters of Annex I. Putting LED bulbs in an old fixture would probably still meet Annex I and be brighter as well. But still not AYBC approved.

They aren’t ABYC approved. The Col Regs specify what color and visibility are required for nav lights. Places like UL certify that a particular light meets the Col regs. But if you replace the bulb that was tested during the certification process with a different type of bulb your lights are no longer certified. And insurance companies don’t want to pay out big claims so they hire investigators who will find the inappropriate bulb and then your liability will rise, how much? Who knows that is for the court and juries to decide. Much better to just buy a certified LED light, put it on and be done with it.

 

[koliver]

There's no "law" that says you can't do it, AYBC standards are voluntary. You can do whatever you want on your own boat. BUT, as Dave says if you have a collision and the other guy's lawyer sees that you altered the lights, you're going to lose. Even if your modified lights are much brighter and "better" than original (which they probably would be). Just get new LED fixtures.

Wait a minute there. You don't lose when your lights are simply changed out to LED. You lose if, for example, your lights don't work as well as the regulations require, and that lack has been proven to have contributed to the collision. Then, and only then, the contribution will be assessed, to see how much it will affect any apportionment of liability.

So before buying a replacement light, find out whether it is suitable for the application.

 

[Comodave]

But by the physical nature of incandescent bulbs vs LED bulbs the nav lights can’t perform as required. Incandescent bulbs emit light from one wire, LEDs emit light from an array. So if the light isn’t designed for an LED then the angle of display will be wrong. And don’t you think the other lawyer will say that was the cause of the collision? Why not just put the correct incandescent bulb in the light or buy new LED nav lights that are correct for the size of the boat? There are other reasons that they don’t meet the requirements but I would have to research them again, I don’t want to quote things that I am not sure of. I have done some research in the past but don’t have time to do it now since we are getting ready to go on a cruise, woopie!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Slight diversion but one wonders if THESE can be sold. I doubt the Col Regs cover this. Script attached to sales site says "...meet wildlife and fisheries regulations."

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5163424613694087/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A70e0cefe-c08b-4987-b6c4-a952cb40a813

 

[Comodave]

Greetings,
Slight diversion but one wonders if THESE can be sold. I doubt the Col Regs cover this. Says "...meet wildlife and fisheries regulations."

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5163424613694087/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A70e0cefe-c08b-4987-b6c4-a952cb40a813

How can they claim they meet any regs? Their photo show illegal lights in their ad. The red and green should not be visible from the opposite side of the boat. They should both only be visible from directly head on. The photo certainly isn’t directly head on.

 

[Comodave]

Found this excerpt on cruisingworld.com. It was written by a member of the ABYC board that works with lighting.


An LED array with the base of a bulb designed for retrofit into an existing light fixture has filtrated the automotive and marine industries. The bottom line is the optics in the existing lamp assembly were not intended for the LED’s unique light pattern. Even if the retrofitted LED physically fits and illuminates, it may put too much light (or not enough light) where it is needed for a navigation light to work properly. Or create blotchy light pattern that may appear have a flashing effect at distance as the boat rotates relative to the viewer. The retrofitted LED and existing lamp assembly were not color tested together, something that is specified in detail in ABYC Standard A16. Nor were they heat tested, which is concern for LEDs as their light output and life decrease with heat. The retrofitted LED into a incandescent housing has more points of failure than the simple bulb or a properly designed LED system.”
You get the idea here. In spite of the overwhelming benefits of using LED’s, low current draw and long life, they MUST be purchased as a light assembly that has been tested as a unit. That means replacing the whole fixture, not just the bulb.


There are a variety of reason not to put a LED bulb into an existing light fixture. These are some of them that I found in about 10 seconds using The Google.