rudders hard to turn

[pbsurf]

I was away from my boat for 2 months. When I returned, I found the wheel so resistant to turning that I thought it something has jammed against the upper helm or cable linkage or rudder posts in the lazarette. Looked and saw a bracket located starboard aft lazarette that rusted so thoroughly that pulleys won't turn. It may be the issue or not. A few years ago, I saw it, greased it, and forgot about it as I could steer with one hand. 2 months ago steering hadn't changed, but 2 days ago it had become two hands necessary. So removing the bracket will require disconnecting the cables at the quadrant. Then restore or replace bracket. But what if is issue is the rudder post has a lack of packing gland grease? A year ago, I tightened the packing gland nut on both rudders to stop a saltwater drip. It stopped. 41 hours of run time on the engines since then, many outings with no steering issue till now. Yesterday working the rudder back and forth the drip has returned. My son and I worked the wheel and emergency tiller in tandem and had no change in resistance. I've started to disconnect the tie bar between the rudders to isolate one to see if I can manually move the rudder. Kind of stuck in the slip till this gets solved. Ideally both pulley and packing gland projects would be thoroughly addressed. Of course, it is likely neither has ever been maintained/replaced before. I think the issue is the rudders more than the pulleys, want to weigh in? Open to ideas on how to proceed.

 

[CharlieO.]

Disconnect cables, then use tiller to see if it turns easier.

 

[kapnd]

Disconnect cables, then use tiller to see if it turns easier.

Pictures would help here, almost sounds like you have a pulley/cable setup?
Whatever it is, you’ll have to disconnect components starting at the tiller arm and working your way back to the helm to find where it’s binding.
The 41 hours in a year may have significant impact, mechanical things on a boat need excercise and maintenance.

 

[pbsurf]

Actually it was a 3 month absence from the boat while I was recovering from total knee joint replacement and infection. Infection washout is no walk in the park. 3 months is the longest time away I've had from being aboard so perhaps that was a major reason for the steering change. Disconnected the cables from the quadrant and found emergency tiller not significantly moving the rudder. Removed and reconditioned the two rusted pulley brackets. After I get to reinstalling the cables, I've been advised to consider the tie bar between the rudders as the source of friction. There isn't a grease fitting at the ends of the tie bar. Anyway I'll attempt to lube the tie bar connection points again. I had no progress in separating the tie bar from the rudder arm. Used a flat head screwdriver to pry apart 1/8". In the photo, a washer is under the nut. I had removed it, filled the top of the tie bar/threaded bar with penetrant, let it sit overnight and it didn't wick into the joint at all.

On the quadrant side no separation

 

[kapnd]

Is there a bolt head under the tiller?
A closed end wrench and a hammer might loosen it up.
Soak it with your favorite penetrating sauce for a week or so, also apply heat. A plumbing torch with Mapp gas is quite effective.

 

[Comodave]

Sorry to hear about the medical issues. My wife experienced similar issues. She had a shoulder replacement, multiple times, and got an infection in the bone to rod joint. They removed her shoulder and put in a block of cement infused with antibiotics. For about 5 months. 3 months of daily antibiotic infusions. Then the 5th surgery and all was good. Good luck with yours.

 

[pbsurf]

Happy for your wife's present good health. Fortunately, my new knee is now stronger.
Slow progress is better than none.
Loosening the nut at the back of the tiller arm allowed it to move down the rudder post and hence separate from the tie rod. The quadrant was unbolted from the rudder post then lifted out while connected to the tie rod. Then the quadrant was unscrewed from the tie bar. Found the port rudder turned but stbd did not. Next removed rusted bolts from the steering support tower cover plate in order to access rudder post thru bolt. Used heat and penetrating oil, back and forth, and heads still twisted off.
Now at removing rudder post thru bolt at the donut washer. Fastened hose clamps around the rudder post just above the packing gland to keep rudder from dropping out the bottom. Would like to get a bit of up and down travel to take the weight of the rudder off the thru bolt. Will try a hacksaw to remove rust under the bronze donut. Will sister cut frame once on the other side of taking it all apart. Too bad I had to cut the frame in order to access the packing gland.

 

[SIBERNUT]

On the quadrant, you need a "pickle fork". What mechanics use to separate joints like that. Bring a box of donuts to a garage & ask to borrow one. Or, Advance Auto loans out tools

 

[pbsurf]

Found what I thought to be rust under the donut was a bronze washer with grease channels. Hole front and center on the donut is threaded for a zerk fitting. Looks like the place that is making rudder hard to turn. About a 1/2" of bronze washer/rudder shaft contact there. Acetone/trans fluid has not seeped thru to underside.

 

[pbsurf]

The rudder post doesn't want to slide down, the packing gland is loose so that it can be turned easily with the pipe wrench, but maybe that is not loose enough. Limited space to use hammer, about 8" of swing space. A few dozen hits with a 6 lb sledge hammer on a piece of hardwood taped to top of rudder post and it has only moved 3/8". Plan to get gland further from the locking nut (looser) to see if that helps. Any opinions as to easing rudder post down? Started on port side and now working on getting that donut to slide up.

 

[lwarden]

Mine were stuck in really solid during the last haul out. I ended up using a jack to push them out after putting a board above it to spread out the load on the deck. Once they were out I found some calcification around the shaft and in the bore. The shaft was easy to clean out, but I had to use a brake hone to clean out the bore with some WD-40. Then I put it back with some red Lucas grease and it's been great ever since.

 

[SteveK]

Mine were stuck in really solid during the last haul out. I ended up using a jack to push them out after putting a board above it to spread out the load on the deck. Once they were out I found some calcification around the shaft and in the bore. The shaft was easy to clean out, but I had to use a brake hone to clean out the bore with some WD-40. Then I put it back with some red Lucas grease and it's been great ever since.

I wonder if white vinegar added at top would draw down and loosing that up.

 

[paulpoz]

I had bound up rudders do to the boat sitting out of water for years (I bought it like this). I had to clamp two four foot 2x4s to the rudders and use the boards as a lever to keep turning it back and forth until I could drop them completely. Lots of back and forths and lots of hammer taps. I then ran a brake hone up the tube to clean the salt and corrosion out. After it was clean, I drilled and tapped a NPT hole and attached a zerk fitting so that I can hit with a grease gun every year. Worked like a champ. Good luck with yours.

 

[rgano]

Long ago, I noted a groan emanating from the open lazarette as I turned the helm while sitting in my slip with engines stopped - boat was a 1972 wooden Grand Banks 42 with twin, heavy bronze rudders. I can't say that I had noted any great difficulty with the steering up to this point. I had owned the boat for 19 years at this point. I unshackled the cables from the quadrants and removed the tie bar to find that I was barely able to turn the stbd rudder with a six-foot-long 2X4 as a pry bar. The "greased-for-life" bearing on top of the ruder table turned out to be the culprit. Since the galvanized steel table itself was in poor condition, I had it replaced with stainless at the same time as two big stainless ball bearings with grease nipples replaced the originals. Luckily there was no issue with the post or the tube, and after I went through the entire system pulling and greasing every sheave and shaft, a flip of the wrist at either helm would see the wheels fly from stop to stop. I ended up replacing the port rudder table thirteen years later. Now I deal with a hydraulic steering system and really miss that smoooooth cable system.

 

[pbsurf]

Stbd rudder took 2 1/2 days, many PB Blaster sprays and heating with a map gas torch, lots of pounding with 6lb sledge while rudder was twisted back and forth

 

[pbsurf]

A month has passed since the steering has been made whole. Dropping the rudders was more difficult than expected. Port rudder was stuck harder. After penetrant and heat, tried muriatic acid, tapping and turning. Next a hydraulic button was placed between top of rudder and backing plate for the port. The backing plate, 5" square x 3/16" thick bronze, cracked. A custom fabrication was required. Next, tried a come along from a boom above to the steering tower, no movement. The tower was cut in 2 places, then the bronze washer split to release it from the post. Rudder still stuck in port. More heat and penetrant. 3 days and the rudder had dropped 3,". Next tried a softer touch, I stood on the post while my son slowly turned the rudder back and forth. 1/8" at a time rudder came down. Interesting that heavy force wouldn't move what light force would. The day being Xmas eve, I rushed to launch, only packing glands and hose clamps on rudder posts. Motored 1000' to slip, opened hatch, saw a foot of water and noted one missing rudder. Bunged hole and bilge pumps did their thing. First diver covered half the distance said he had a visibility of about 3'. After waiting for a weather window, my boat bottom diver, Chisley, became my hero. Starting at the lift, and going toward the slip we were 50' from where the other search ended when he saw the bottom half of the rudder sticking up thru the mud. The hour that he had worked had used up his air so he free dove a couple times 23' to tie it off. Pulled it close to the dinghy then motored to the dock for the final lift. Chisley is bona fide awesome. In the 5 years he has worked for me he hasn't raised his fee. Any of you in the San Diego area needing a boat bottom service, go to Lima Diving Service