Rudder stuffing bolt mess

[Rays53hatt]

I bought a 42 foot Hatteras long range cruiser six months ago. The owner told me that the last time he tightened the starboard stuffing box outboard bolt he couldn’t get it to turn. So I squirted PB blaster on it and let it sit and then went after it. And found this. The nut in question is absolutely doing nothing at all. And is completely seized. My question is, do I need to get an emergency haul out? Is this safe?

I’m pretty certain I’m going to have to cut out part of the cabinetry in order to get a torch in, if weeks of soaking in pb blaster doesn’t free it.

Any other suggestions?
Safe?

 

[Rays53hatt]

oh, I forgot to add, in one of the pictures you can see a hole above the rudder post. My hand is reaching in through that hole to take the picture. It’s not possible to actually see the bolt and nut.

 

[Comodave]

Did you intend to post this in the boats for sale section? As to the bolt, it would certainly be a concern to me. Is it an emergency concern? Probably not a really urgent concern. But I would try to fix it ASAP. Have you tried heat to get the threaded rod out! Also regular tapping with a hammer may help get the PB worked into the threads. I would squirt, tap and heat it frequently for a couple of days and see if you can get it out.

If you can’t get it out you will probably have to haul and replace the shaft log. It sure doesn’t look like you will move the nut. So my goal would be to getthe threaded rod out and put in a new rod and nuts. BTW it looks like there is only one locking nut on each rod. All in my experience have had 2 regular nuts instead of the nylock nuts. Tighten the first nut and use the second one as a lock nut.

 

[Jaep]

The threaded rods should thread into the main part of the stuffing box assembly that is bolted into the hull. The piece they go through is a collar that presses down on the packing under the collar. Threaded rods should be bronze or stainless along with nuts and locking nuts. Should be able to unthread and replace if needed. Google stuffing box buck algonquin, and you will understand.

 

[Comodave]

The threaded rods should thread into the main part of the stuffing box assembly that is bolted into the hull. The piece they go through is a collar that presses down on the packing under the collar. Threaded rods should be bronze or stainless along with nuts and locking nuts. Should be able to unthread and replace if needed. Google stuffing box buck algonquin, and you will understand.

Key here is should be able to remove the rod. But it may be seized in. Anyway good luck.

 

[psneeld]

Agree with Jaep. Usually bronze on bronze or stainless rods in bronze may be seized but still usually can be coaxed into repair rather than destructive disassembly.

Now the trick is to get creative with how to better access the space or modify tools that can do the job.

 

[Comodave]

Getting to it can indeed take some creativity…

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. R. Congrats on the new mistress. You WILL have to get better access to that stuffing box either to get some heat and tools into that space OR to replace the stuffing box entirely. Either way, IMO, it will involve carpentry.

 

[psneeld]

When working on boats, always think outside the box before succumbing to the obvious.

My main shaft stuffing box was only one hand accessible through a tiny hatch under the aft head sink. After a year or two of massive frustration, I realized that if I popped off a piece of raised decking alongside the sink next to the toilet, I could get 2 hands down to the stuffing box with better light and visuals.

The new access allowed more leverage and different tool use which kept me from cutting a new hatch though the nice teak and holly planked deck or violating the watertight drain pan in the middle of the head.

Working on that stuffing box went from frustrating, pain inducing and time consuming to pretty routine.

 

[Duvie]

Looks like you may have a steel nut on the bronze all-thread. I am guessing the nut is where all the rust is coming from. You can see some bronze coloring on the all-thread. As others have mentioned increase your access if at all possible. If heat is needed, you might want to check out the induction bolt heaters that have been available for a while now. I have never used one, but they look neat. Just thought of this.... as a bonus the induction heater should only heat the steel nut and not the bronze all thread! That makes for a very safe way of heating that nut!

 

[Rays53hatt]

Did you intend to post this in the boats for sale section? As to the bolt, it would certainly be a concern to me. Is it an emergency concern? Probably not a really urgent concern. But I would try to fix it ASAP. Have you tried heat to get the threaded rod out! Also regular tapping with a hammer may help get the PB worked into the threads. I would squirt, tap and heat it frequently for a couple of days and see if you can get it out.

If you can’t get it out you will probably have to haul and replace the shaft log. It sure doesn’t look like you will move the nut. So my goal would be to getthe threaded rod out and put in a new rod and nuts. BTW it looks like there is only one locking nut on each rod. All in my experience have had 2 regular nuts instead of the nylock nuts. Tighten the first nut and use the second one as a lock nut.

Well, no, I did not intend to post it in boats for sale. Thank you for pointing that out. I’ll work on that in the future.
Thank you so much for the suggestion to have the goal of removing the threaded Rod. That makes perfect sense. But of course, I had not thought of that and I was still focused on the nut,

 

[Rays53hatt]

The threaded rods should thread into the main part of the stuffing box assembly that is bolted into the hull. The piece they go through is a collar that presses down on the packing under the collar. Threaded rods should be bronze or stainless along with nuts and locking nuts. Should be able to unthread and replace if needed. Google stuffing box buck algonquin, and you will understand.

Thank you so much. I absolutely will work on replacing the threaded rod.

 

[Rays53hatt]

Looks like you may have a steel nut on the bronze all-thread. I am guessing the nut is where all the rust is coming from. You can see some bronze coloring on the all-thread. As others have mentioned increase your access if at all possible. If heat is needed, you might want to check out the induction bolt heaters that have been available for a while now. I have never used one, but they look neat. Just thought of this.... as a bonus the induction heater should only heat the steel nut and not the bronze all thread! That makes for a very safe way of heating that nut!

I’m going to try the PB blaster and tapping it with a hammer and see how that goes. If I do need heat, I will absolutely research the induction heater. That is an excellent idea. If I get to that point, I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Comodave]

When working on boats, always think outside the box before succumbing to the obvious.

My main shaft stuffing box was only one hand accessible through a tiny hatch under the aft head sink. After a year or two of massive frustration, I realized that if I popped off a piece of raised decking alongside the sink next to the toilet, I could get 2 hands down to the stuffing box with better light and visuals.

The new access allowed more leverage and different tool use which kept me from cutting a new hatch though the nice teak and holly planked deck or violating the watertight drain pan in the middle of the head.

Working on that stuffing box went from frustrating, pain inducing and time consuming to pretty routine.

Yes, access can be everything. My boat had a small hatch through the engine room bulkhead to a cabinet in the aft cabin to access the raw water pump. But you couldn’t reach through except for one habd. Then you had to reach around to the aft side of the pump to remove the bolts. No way. I checked to see if I could enlarge the hatch. Ended up with a hatch much larger. The mechanic said it made it easy to change the pump.

 

[BruceK]

Well, no, I did not intend to post it in boats for sale. Thank you for pointing that out.

If you hit the "Report" "button" located foot/left of one of your posts it goes to a Mod who can move the thread somewhere better.

 

[av8r]

You might be able to get a nut splitter on the nut to remove it. If that works, try a thread chaser on the stud and reassemble with a double bronze nut and grease. McMaster sells bronze nuts, probably the tools also.

 

[Comodave]

I reported this thread so the mods will move it to the correct section. It should get more visibility that way.

 

[twistedtree]

Rather than a torch, consider getting a Bolt Buster. It's an indiction heater that fits right over the nut, will heat it to glowing red, and doesn't heat everything around it like a torch. It's one of the best tools that I have purchased in recent memory, and has saved my ass on multiple occasions.

HOME

Latest News Notable Industry Celebrities Who Love The Bolt Buster

boltbusterinc.com

 

[Crux]

How about leave stud and nut in place as is....then use a bushing long enough to slide down over nut to rest against gland clamp...and protrude a bit above nut.

Then put a flat washer on stud down against bushing....then a new nut down against flat washer to provide clamping pressure down against gland.

You're really just by passing old nut

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. C. What a novel idea. Ideal for a temporary/quick fix. Thanks.

 

[psneeld]

Thinking outside the box.... I like it....

Just have to imagine the downsides when considering... for a rudder post I don't see any without seeing more of the big picture.

But like most people, I would prefer the "more common fixes" until they became too costly of very hard to do.

 

[KnotYet]

I’m going to try the PB blaster and tapping it with a hammer and see how that goes. If I do need heat, I will absolutely research the induction heater. That is an excellent idea. If I get to that point, I will let you know how it goes.

If all else fails, you could probably reach that nut with a Dremel and a carbide burr.
I have a small Makita die grinder that is like a Dremel on steroids for these situations.
Once you open a channel in that nut it will probably release its hold on the threads.

 

[psneeld]

If all else fails, you could probably reach that nut with a Dremel and a carbide burr.
I have a small Makita die grinder that is like a Dremel on steroids for these situations.

Another good approach that I would have tried right away as I always had one on hand. Then chase the threads with a die, and replace with a new bronze nut and washer.

A nut should be easy to find for a Hatteras, unlike a Taiwan Trawler with its British Standard Whitworth thread (think mine were that). Insidious as a US thread would start but then jam after a few turns.

 

[Antares]

If you can get room to work a nut splitter can be your friend. It will leave the male threads iintact.

 

[C lectric]

I have used nut splitters with good success in years past when all the sprays failed.
Your application is likely worse than mine.

Someone beat me to the suggestion of a Dremel or similar cutting by grinding tool. Even an oscillating tool with the appropriate blade should work out well.

IF there is room even a small hack saw or a saber saw may do the job.
You should not have to cut deeply enough to damage the rod thread.
Don't go to deep though. Stop cutting just as you start to hit the bolt/rod.
Use a chisel, large screwdriver to spread and loosen the cut nuts.
Then clean it up with wire brushes and a suitable size threading die.

Cut if accessible on both sides as the nuts may then split.

But get rid of those steel nuts, They should have been Silicon Bronze THe threaded rod looks like silicon bronze. Steel/iron should never be used in this application as you can now unfortunately see. To me not even SS should have been used.

Just in case, I being a Chicken, would likely arrange a haul out just in case the P.O. did another foolish "repair". Once he got to what he was doing he should have changed the nuts.

As a last suggestion if a torch is needed be aware you need to have a holding base to put the torch into so it is stable and a fire extinguisher close at hand just in case something goes haywire.
I made my torch base of about 4 or 5 pieces of 3/4" ply with some used, beat up old shaft zincs screwed to it so the torch cannot tip it.

 

[C lectric]

Wow, never heard of the Bolt Buster. Looks like a great tool. To bad I don't need one right now . I wish I did, a new toy, but I will bear it in mind if some rust or stuck problem shows up..

Thank You T.T.


Just a last??? comment. For a torch you might try some of the tiny torches available for rope/line work to seal the ends. They will burn you and anything else they contact but they are far more adaptable to confined places.
But still be carefull as torches, no matter the size, can be trouble if mishandled.

I realize I likely am warning someone likely already aware of the dangers but better safe than sorry.

 

[kapnd]

In addition to the rusty stud/ nut, the packing has likely been neglected for some time, as shown by the overall decrepit condition of the gland.
I’d be looking to haulout soon, take the whole gland out for a cleanup and polish the shaft, replace the rubber tube and clamps, and of course replace packing.
You’ll be happy with GFO packing, installed with a liberal slathering of Teflon grease.

 

[Dale Barwick]

oh, I forgot to add, in one of the pictures you can see a hole above the rudder post. My hand is reaching in through that hole to take the picture. It’s not possible to actually see the bolt and nut.

Just one way if it will come out at all is to put more of your rust loose neat spray on and then heat the base where the nut screws in with a torch and instead of using a wrench using impact and impact will tend to break things loose a lot better than using a wrench with constant pressure. Run the impact reversed and run it forward for a few hammers then run reverse do that several times and sometimes the boats will come out especially with some heat down on the bottom end where you put the spray on

 

[C lectric]

Forgot to mention this. For my large propane torch I made a weighted stand of 3 pcs of 3/4" plywood, screwed together, about 8" square. Each corner has a 2" diam shaft 1/2 zinc screwed to it so the stand is stable.

 

[Rays53hatt]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all of your support and suggestions. I tried coaxing with tapping and PB blaster. I was unable to get heat on it. The top of the threaded rod is too close to the screw that holds the top of the assembly down so they’re opposing and there’s not space to get anything in between and slide down over, like the nut heater.. I cut this access because I was completely at a loss as how to make any progress. The boats coming out of the water and I’m going to drop the rudder to get access. My concern is, have I made a structural weakness that needs to be remedied with my cut?

Oh, how hard is it to drop the rudder?