Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

[Portuguese]

Greetings Gents

*

As the finance department is kind of weak, I am looking into the traditional Teleflex Heavy Duty Capilano Steering System to be installed in Rainha Jannota. The system is good for dual station and it looks strong enough to face harship.

Does any of you guys have anything to say about the choice?

Thank you in advance

Portuguese

 

[Phil Fill]

I would go with the three line hydraulic system as the third smaller line makes it easy to bleed the system.* Teleflex does make a 3 line system.*

http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/hydraulic-new/inboard-new/hynautic-new/

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

The Capilano system has proven dependable in yachts and work boats for years.You won't be disappointed.

 

[FF]

I much prefer the style where an engine driven pump provides the Hyd pressure and the wheel is really just a fancy valve .

The advantage is the autopilot only has to sire 1amp solenoids , a far cry from starting and stopping a heavy amp pump every few seconds.

As a belt and suspenders guy a great choice would be the old standard , a chain over a sprocket and cables over proper large radius sheves to a rudder quadrant.

Concept here is bulletproof reliability , and ease of repair. Look at Edison for sizes and routing drawings.

A huge advantage with this setup is a tiller $350 autopilot will work fine , again no maint , tiny cost and the ability to carry a spare entire AP system , with 5 second insatalation

 

[swampu]

FF wrote:
I much prefer the style where an engine driven pump provides the Hyd pressure and the wheel is really just a fancy valve .

The advantage is the autopilot only has to sire 1amp solenoids , a far cry from starting and stopping a heavy amp pump every few seconds.

As a belt and suspenders guy a great choice would be the old standard , a chain over a sprocket and cables over proper large radius sheves to a rudder quadrant.

Concept here is bulletproof reliability , and ease of repair. Look at Edison for sizes and routing drawings.

A huge advantage with this setup is a tiller $350 autopilot will work fine , again no maint , tiny cost and the ability to carry a spare entire AP system , with 5 second insatalation

Looks like FF and I are on the same page. *Like he said chains, gear boxes and long 1" shafts are my thing. *There are many advantages and many more disadvantages to different steering systems. *I actually spent a year trying to decide what to install. *FF and a few others made it fairly clear the simple and ease of*maintenance*always trumps*gizmo's*and gadgets. *My only issue with the engine driven steering was what engine to put it on and they all work "well" at low rpm but I would need it to work exceptionally "well" at low rpm. *That's when most of the rudder is needed. *Good luck and also what kind of steering is on the boat now?

 

[Peter B]

Fred I have chain and rod steering. I was looking one day to put a Raymarine Wheelpilot behind the wheel, a la yacht set-up, but you mention a tiller-pilot. Where would you connect one of those to a chain, rod, and quadrant system? To the quadrant I would guess, but that means it would not be taking advantage of the gearing in the system from the wheel..? Would a tiller-pilot cope with that...?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Rod and chain is nice but like any system it has its own drawbacks. u-joints and pillow blocks need maintanance and aren't free at construction. A Capalano manual hydraulic system can hardly be called "gizmos' and gadgets".
I have had both systems and wouldn't change out either for the other, however on a new build I'll go hydraulic any day.

 

[Codger2]

Sailor of Fortune wrote:
The Capilano system has proven dependable in yachts and work boats for years.You won't be disappointed.

*X2

 

[Phil Fill]

Buy the big helm pump, less turns.*I wish the Eagle helm*pump was bigger.* *I would not have a engine powered pump because if the engine quits, you lost your steering, especially if you are planning on installing a get home/auxiliary power.*Best to keep it simple and separate.***Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*

A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*

 

[Codger2]

Phil Fill wrote:
*Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*

A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*

* * * ** Good advice and I have both.

 

[Portuguese]

Gents

*

...Pardon my ignorance. In case of using a autopilot, does the autopilot pump replaces de steering system pump?

In other words, the autopilot pump receives the hoses from the valve in the steering wheels and then connects to the cilynder?

Is that it?

 

[markpierce]

Phil Fill wrote:
A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*

*I highly recommend a rudder indicator too.* I'd be "lost" without it.* On my panel, it is just above the gear-shift/throttle control.

 

[markpierce]

Phil Fill wrote:
*

...**Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*

.

*I'm not sure how a manual tiller would be attached here.

 

[RickB]

Don't worry, when that hose clamp holding the RAI arm breaks you will have plenty of room to fit a tiller.

Just pull the pin that connects the steering cylinder to the rudder arm first.

 

[Phil Fill]

Portuguese wrote:
Gents

*

...Pardon my ignorance. In case of using a autopilot, does the autopilot pump replaces de steering system pump?

In other words, the autopilot pump receives the hoses from the valve in the steering wheels and then connects to the cilynder?

Is that it?

*

The auto pilot pump is an addition to the helm pump.* When out and about the auto pilot steers the boat, and I make course correct with the auto pilot as the helm and auto pilot tend to work against each other. So*I do not touch the helm until the auto pilot is turned off.* So you could steer with the helm*or the auto pilot.

Basically Yes.*I think its T into the line?*

I had a new improved specially made tiller and modified added to the rudder post as the original tiller was*not*stout and to funky.* Since we can not see from the stern deck, the tiller would be tied down and we would steer with the bow thruster.*

So we can steer with the helm, auto pilot, emergency tiller and/or the bowthruster.* What ever gets*us back the DOCK.*Back up for the back up.*

*

 

[Portuguese]

...Back up for the back up....I like the sound of that!

 

[Codger2]

markpierce wrote: I'm not sure how a manual tiller would be attached here.

*Mine is a bent pipe (90 degrees) that serves as the tiller, and has a welded socket on the end. It is stowed in the lazarette, close to the rudder post.


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Friday 2nd of March 2012 03:28:28 PM

 

[FF]

" Mine is a bent pipe (90 degrees) that serves as the tiller, and has a welded socket on the end. It is stowed in the lazarette, close to the rudder post."

Good thinking esp if there is a removable deck plate over the rudder post , so the emergency tiller is above deck level.

Far easier to operate or at least tie off till back in port.

 

[FF]

"To the quadrant I would guess, but that means it would not be taking advantage of the gearing in the system from the wheel..? Would a tiller-pilot cope with that...?"

*

Too much friction and mass back thru the mechanical systems ,the wheel is the attach spot.

A tiller pilot MUST have the wheel return to the same spot with the rudder.

This is why no usual hydraulic setup (the wheel IS the pump) works for long, internal leakage and eventually "centered' isnt centered.

The mechanical setups do not have this disadvantage, although the suffer the increased power required to operate the chain , gears and rods.

Since the engine is on ,,hardly a problem.

To figgure if you can simply add a tillerpilot to your wheel , steer and see if 4 inches of movement either way when on course will hold course.

If it does the tiller pilot will work , but remenber these are portible units , so you might be able to borrow one from a local rag bagger and see it work.

If more distance than 4* (L&R)inches is required to stay on course there are wheel steering setups for sail, boats that mount usually behind the wheel and drive a belt longer distances.

*


-- Edited by FF on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 06:23:24 AM

 

[Steve]

Capilano on present and previous boats no problems at all, knocking on wood asi I type.
Steve W


-- Edited by Steve on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 09:19:53 AM

 

[Portuguese]

Guys

Thank for your help

Regards, Portuguese

 

[swampu]

This*Capilano*steering (I googled it) is what I have in my*Hydrasport.*Seastaris the brand but it is a very nice unit. When I was shopping steering unit the one I almost purchased was independent of the motors, and had a 5hp ac motor pumping the*hydraulics*and a 20 or 30 gallon*reservoir. It required tubing to be installed schedule 70 pipe and was about 11,000 dollars. Thus I went with what I have, when I mentioned the*gizmo's*and gadgets I wasreferring*to the system I was looking at. This*Capilano*is a very good system and simple if it will work for your boat. Something like that was not an option for my lugger. *When I looked for steering system there are formulas you need to go through to make sure the steering will work. You need to know the size of the rudder, wheel and torque at the wheel. Don't*under size*your unit and if you have a single screw you might be*always*compensating for thrust.