Ptsd at sea

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good article from Power & Motoryacht.

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/blogs/ptsd-at-sea

 

[dannc]

A nit with the article, but what is now called PTSD, has been known about for thousands of years. The aftermath of critical incidents has been called PTSD, shell shock, battle fatigue and some other names I have forgotten. The Bible has discussions about the issue.

The last 20 years have built up an understanding that there are brain injuries due to concussions from explosions and such, aka, shell shock, vs changes in the brain due to a critical incident, i.e., PTSD, battle fatigue, etc. Before, it was all lumped under one phrase, and far too often, the problem was minimized.

There is good evidence/theory that Henry the VIII suffered a concussive brain injury in a joust which changed his personality for the worst.

Later,
Dan

 

[sbu22]

I'm sorry - having volunteered in a small way with several veterans' groups that assist GIs with PTSD over the years, I find the article a bit overblown. The author is out on his brand new OA, a squall line passes and she drags anchor. They have a middle of the night adventure with apparently no injuries and little or no damage to the boat. Then they're a little apprehensive the next time they anchor out. So they have PTSD.

This strikes me as false equivelancy. The guys we tried to help (Viet Nam and sandbox vets), in many cases, left body parts and dead comrades behind. They experienced events that is the stuff of nightmares for months at a time.

Let's save the powerful descriptors for significant conditions. A more suitable title would be "Apprehensive at Sea."

 

[psneeld]

I'm sorry - having volunteered in a small way with several veterans' groups that assist GIs with PTSD over the years, I find the article a bit overblown. The author is out on his brand new OA, a squall line passes and she drags anchor. They have a middle of the night adventure with apparently no injuries and little or no damage to the boat. Then they're a little apprehensive the next time they anchor out. So they have PTSD.

This strikes me as false equivelancy. The guys we tried to help (Viet Nam and sandbox vets), in many cases, left body parts and dead comrades behind. They experienced events that is the stuff of nightmares for months at a time.

Let's save the powerful descriptors for significant conditions. A more suitable title would be "Apprehensive at Sea."

It's like germaphobes and the rest of us.

Look at the overused word hero. Doesn't take much to see our society has lost the bubble.

A hangnail can create PTSD.... my mom has a fear of snakes that the word drives her to irrationality.

While I can see where some cases are pretty extreme, doesn't mean that a "pro" of the mind guy won't classify it as PTSD.

My cut is, just go out and see blood and gore on a regular basis and in between face death a couple dozen times and dragging anchor won't be such a big deal.

But career choices can influence that to a large degree.

I admit I have some form of PTSD...I cry at all the parts of movies everyone else is clapping for...why? Can't be sure but I know life in general affects me different now than it does most people.

So the guy writes an article to make money like most boating mag article writers...take it with a grain of salt...I wish everyone did. and figure out their own nightmares.

 

[hollywood8118]

So it appears our society has become way too sensitive. I feel bad for the people that have real PTSD from real trauma.
In the generation that I grew up in the folks that had a tough night and got a bit scared on their boat would not have claimed to suffer from PTSD.


We would of just called them pussies.


HOLLYWOOD

 

[phillippeterson]

It's not what you said, it's how you said it.

Now my sense of self is inflated and my feelings are bruised.

 

[Benthic2]

People don't know what they don't know. If you have never wondered whether you'd see another sunrise, what most see as disruptive might seem truly terrifying, if it is the worst thing you have ever experienced. Is that enough to cause PTSD ? I don't know....but I do know that people have gotten back injuries just putting on their shoes, while some guys can swing a sledge hammer all day. If spines can run the gamut from hardy to delicate, I suspect brains can too.

 

[ksanders]

So it appears our society has become way too sensitive. I feel bad for the people that have real PTSD from real trauma.
In the generation that I grew up in the folks that had a tough night and got a bit scared on their boat would not have claimed to suffer from PTSD.


We would of just called them pussies.


HOLLYWOOD

My feelings exactly!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Everyone has their demons.

 

[rslifkin]

Not al trauma is necessarily equal. Some people will require far worse events than others to suffer damage. And depending on the origin of PTSD it may be severe or not so severe. Ease of managing it and whether it goes away with time will vary as well. PTSD may not be the best term for the events in the article, but the effects are certainty in the same ballpark, even if they'd affect less people and be less severe than what we see in soldiers, etc.

 

[Montenido]

I had a similar incident to the one described. Sudden gale-force winds at 2:00am, anchor dragging to a lee shore. As a result, I now have a 105# Mantus for my boat, which will probably never drag. I don't think I Have PTSD, but I do consider myself "scarred" by the incident.

BTW, as a retired firefighter I have seen lots more than normal folks are wired to see. I have a number of calls that I will never forget that were truly horrifying. I don't think that I have PTSD, and you've probably all heard about our famous "graveyard" humor. It helps you to cope.

I certainly believe that there are many people who do have PTSD from experiences or accidents that their minds simply cannot get past. I don't discount their claims out of hand. Lastly, I do agree that the term Hero is useless nowadays from over use.

Just my .02

Cheers, Bill

 

[Tkgc]

My feelings exactly!

X2

 

[ABfish]

Any stressful situation may leave a lasting imprint, but calling it PTSD is co-opting a term that obviously evolved from truly life-altering circumstances.

My wife's friend had a long, difficult night during Hurricane Florence, with a flooded yard, ruined vehicles and floating propane tank banging against the house. She jokingly says that she has PTSD, but what she really means is that she gets anxious anytime a hurricane is predicted to make landfall in coastal NC.

 

[Mac2]

I have PTSD. It was last call. There she was at the end of the bar......

 

[Hippocampus]

I’ve worked trauma, near drownings, burns, pathology/forensics and seen/been involved in multiple settings that could produce PTSD. I’ve treated patients with it. I’ve personally have lived through a storm and declared overdue in a boat with the floorboards floating and the sails blown out, several near drownings and several near death events. I do not have PTSD.
Here’s some of what’s known.
Prior experience and the setting has a major effect on whether PTSD will occur. The same person can live through a terrible experience and have no issues one time and even in response to a less serious event be left with PTSD.
There is no correlation with how macho you are and whether you are at risk for PTSD. It not about being a wimp.
If the people around you escalate and reinforce a sense of lack of control or ability to survive it may have negative impact.
The sooner (hours not weeks later) the psychological impact of the event is addressed the lower the incidence and more benign the course (should PTSD occur).
Pharmaceutical inventions may have benefit. This is still under active research but meds you wouldn’t think would be applicable such as beta blockers with cns penetration or ketamine may decrease incidence of persistent PTSD.
Take homes are
No shame in having PTSD
Early intervention is important. Military has taken to prophylactic intervention as soon as possible after the event.
Pharmacy has its place as well as talk therapy.

Personally believe as with ADHD, chronic Lyme as so many others things it’s unfortunate this label is sometimes applied inappropriately. However, PTSD is real and has been present since the start of recorded history. Delighted the neurobiology of it is being unraveled with significant improvement in medical management. Think given the right setting and individuals involved how the event described in the article could produce a form fruste or mild case. Think it’s demeaning and totally unhelpful to judge the worth of a patient by the severity of their complaints or cause thereof.

 

[sbu22]

Lastly, I do agree that the term Hero is useless nowadays from over use./QUOTE]

What he said.

 

[OldDan1943]

I
My cut is, just go out and see blood and gore on a regular basis and in between face death a couple dozen times and dragging anchor won't be such a big deal.
I admit I have some form of PTSD...I cry at all the parts of movies everyone else is clapping for...why? Can't be sure but I know life in general affects me different now than it does most people.

As a veteran, I tear up on Veteran's Day and Memorial Day parades when the US flag passes. I remember all the servicemen who have died and those who are now disabled, limbs missing or paralyzed. Yup, my brain was screwed up when I first got out but everyday, things get better.
I was not a 'ground pounder'. I was on nuc/FBM subs. Our lives would not be worth spit after we fired the first missile.
Guess I am lucky.

 

[sbu22]

I was on nuc/FB subs. Our lives would not be worth spit after we fired the first missile.

Off subject - Me too, Dan. The "word" was we had 20 minutes max after first launch.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I don't get it either.

So you dragged anchor and...

But now you are worried about drag anchor, hit bottom, hole hull, sink and die?

Yeah, people worry too much.

 

[Highland Mist]

PTSD is so over-used by those that are not qualified to diagnose. Made it into and out of the desert, brought all of my guys and gals home. Still wake up my wife now and then. Know cops, and I know there are firefighters, that have had experiences that, while I'm not a clinician, I would be surprised if they didn't rank a PTSD diagnosis. A bad or stressful experience, however, is not PTSD. It's a bad day.

 

[BruceK]

PTSD is so over-used by those that are not qualified to diagnose. Made it into and out of the desert, brought all of my guys and gals home. Still wake up my wife now and then. Know cops, and I know there are firefighters, that have had experiences that, while I'm not a clinician, I would be surprised if they didn't rank a PTSD diagnosis. A bad or stressful experience, however, is not PTSD. It's a bad day.

A fair assessment.
PTSD features in the DSM(Diagnostic & Statistical Manual),the diagnostic "bible" for psychs.There are precise requirements for a diagnosis.

It demeans the true sufferers and misunderstands the condition to claim, without more, a bad day on the water causes PTSD.

Interestingly, the "tough" one might think would cope with PTSD potential stressors are as susceptible as anyone.

 

[Benthic2]

PTSD is so over-used by those that are not qualified to diagnose. ....... while I'm not a clinician, I would be surprised if they didn't rank a PTSD diagnosis.

oh the irony.......

 

[Miz Trom]

Whether you're drowning in 10 inches of water or 100 feet of water, you're still drowning.


Mrs. Trombley

 

[Hippocampus]

Agree the DSM should be used as the guideline. Would further note there’s biological changes that occur. Functional MRI and other neurobiological investigations have given us insights into the biochemistry of the disorder. To argue “a bad day” is the same as the life disruption that occurs with PTSD is not reality based. But not accepting to the unsophisticated eye there maybe a disconnect from the severity of the proximal (apparent) precipitating event and production of PTSD is also not realistic. Although “burn out” (MDs,RNs, EMTs, SAR, LEs, military ) isn’t PTSD. Not infrequently you will see an event those folks have dealt with innumerable times tip them over the edge. Similarly in the milieu of chronic internal stressors the threshold maybe lowered.

What I object to here and in so many aspects of social networking is the judgmental attitude of some. The casing of the first stone is rarely productive. Be it in accident reviews, interpretation of colregs, or other threads. Rather would want to understand what happened and why. What is motivating the language used. How to mitigate or avoid risk and adverse outcomes.
In the past you slowly gained knowledge, expertise and experience via two footitis. You slowly expanded your horizons. Small boats, protected waters, benign days. Then worked your way up to more demanding conditions. You did this as crew for others and captaining s your own progressive larger and more complex vessels. You learned from yourself but also from your crew when captain or captain when crew. I think that evolution occurs less and less. Think the OP article maybe representative of that.

 

[psneeld]

Agree the DSM should be used as the guideline. Would further note there’s biological changes that occur. Functional MRI and other neurobiological investigations have given us insights into the biochemistry of the disorder. To argue “a bad day” is the same as the life disruption that occurs with PTSD is not reality based. But not accepting to the unsophisticated eye there maybe a disconnect from the severity of the proximal (apparent) precipitating event and production of PTSD is also not realistic. Although “burn out” (MDs,RNs, EMTs, SAR, LEs, military ) isn’t PTSD. Not infrequently you will see an event those folks have dealt with innumerable times tip them over the edge. Similarly in the milieu of chronic internal stressors the threshold maybe lowered.

What I object to here and in so many aspects of social networking is the judgmental attitude of some. The casing of the first stone is rarely productive. Be it in accident reviews, interpretation of colregs, or other threads. Rather would want to understand what happened and why. What is motivating the language used. How to mitigate or avoid risk and adverse outcomes.
In the past you slowly gained knowledge, expertise and experience via two footitis. You slowly expanded your horizons. Small boats, protected waters, benign days. Then worked your way up to more demanding conditions. You did this as crew for others and captaining s your own progressive larger and more complex vessels. You learned from yourself but also from your crew when captain or captain when crew. I think that evolution occurs less and less. Think the OP article maybe representative of that.

In red my sentiments exactly.

The article/book writers, you tubers, etc that start boating/cruising late in life and gain a huge amount of hours/miles may or may not be an accurate way of measuring experience.

You can cross the Atlantic a dozen times and never repair a sinking boat, put out a major fire, handle a severe medical emergency.... yet throngs of people with little or no experience follow these public figures with great earnest and bow to their "experise".

While certainly experienced in certain ways, when they venture into "repeating" common knowledge that they have only read and not personally experienced.... even from an "on scene" perspective....it sticks out like a sore thumb to those that have.

So often they and their minions think they are all prepared for the worst.... it is just not so......

 

[Benthic2]

I think it takes an acknowledgement that you can always learn more. A few guys I used to boat with had been boating for 10+ years, but stopped learning 9 years ago. They never sought to expand their experience or skill set.
There is a huge difference between having many different boating experiences, and having a few experiences repeated over and over.
Getting better at something takes humility and conscious effort.

 

[psneeld]

I think it takes an acknowledgement that you can always learn more. A few guys I used to boat with had been boating for 10+ years, but stopped learning 9 years ago. They never sought to expand their experience or skill set.
There is a huge difference between having many different boating experiences, and having a few experiences repeated over and over.
Getting better at something takes humility and conscious effort.

Sit through a USCG licensing course full of guys boating their whole lives and now required to spend days memorizing the complete set of rules of the road, hours on just ATON light characteristics and chart symbols..... it is funny, scary, almost sad in many respects but fulfilling when they finally complete and pass. Then it's scary again when you talk to them years later and realize how much they have forgotten already.

Some accept their extremely limited knowledge of the technical side of boating gracefully, others not so much. The course can be a real attitude changer at least for its duration.

 

[Retriever]

Sit through a USCG licensing course full of guys boating their whole lives and now required to spend days memorizing the complete set of rules of the road, hours on just ATON light characteristics and chart symbols..... it is funny, scary, almost sad in many respects but fulfilling when they finally complete and pass. Then it's scary again when you talk to them years later and realize how much they have forgotten already.

Some accept their extremely limited knowledge of the technical side of boating gracefully, others not so much. The course can be a real attitude changer at least for its duration.

I was blown away at the low level of math ability among the students in the course I took. Questions like, “You’ve been traveling for 47 minutes at 7.2 knots, how far have you traveled?” proved baffling to many.

 

[Hippocampus]

When you stop learning they have better thrown dirt in your face.


Or they soon will.