Picking a boat

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Yeah, you have to go visit some boats and walk around a bit. Make sure you fit. That sounds kinda funny until you get on a 42 footer and have to stoop in the saloon because the ceiling is 6 foot and you are 6-2
 
Yeah, you have to go visit some boats and walk around a bit. Make sure you fit. That sounds kinda funny until you get on a 42 footer and have to stoop in the saloon because the ceiling is 6 foot and you are 6-2
lmao - I can assure you that I would not have to stoop under a 6' ceiling.
 
Cool beans baby, that opens up a lot more boats! And lack of length will serve you well in the engine room also - :)
 
Cool beans baby, that opens up a lot more boats! And lack of length will serve you well in the engine room also - :)
I'm thinking Albin 36. They seem to check almost all the boxes and I sincerely like the style, looks, layout. etc. They're kind of classic IMO and I love the classics.

Thank you to the survey guy (boatpoker) for the links of information. I have a very strong background in this kind of stuff (not boats) so I should be able to put all that information to good use when the time comes.

Just to add a little context. I'm not completely new to boats. I was in the Navy (shore duty though). I've owned boats before too. They were smaller, lake boats. I don't even remember exactly what they were other than motorboats, One was a tri-hull with an open bow and outboard Mercruiser. The one I like the best was an older Silverliner with a closed bow and an inboard Mercruiser. That one had a nice canopy top. My favorite time to take it out on the lake was on rainy days. I'd putt around the shoreline (not fishing) and just love every minute of it. That was a very long time ago. I kayak quite a bit - at least I did. It's been a couple of years now. I mostly (almost exclusively) cold weather kayak. The lakes freeze over where I live so my seasons are short, late fall, early spring. I love kayaking when there's snow on the shore, sometimes breaking through thin sheets of ice on the surface. I lived in Hawaii for a few years back in the 80's. I'm not a good swimmer but I used to snorkel and scuba dive. That was also a couple of lifetimes ago. My desire to live on a boat isn't something I just thought of. I've been thinking about if for years in the background. Now that the reality is getting near, I'm starting to actively think about it. I don't know anything about trawlers or boat life but I'm not completely unaware. Plus, I've seen the entire movie Titanic Spoiler alert, it didn't end well.
 
Last edited:
It seems as if a lot of the boats I like the most are located near the PNW, I simply don't want to purchase something that is going to double in cost because of relocating. I was stuck on the idea of a DeFever 49 for a while but I broke free of that notion. Based on my personal preferences and the advice of the people on this forum I'm now drawn more towards a much smaller vessel (38-40'). My favorite so far is the Ocean Alexander 40' Double Cabin but there are others I like almost as well or maybe more. It's nearly impossible to make a final decision without stepping foot on any of them. I'm also blessed with a personal relationship with God, who will help me make the final decision when the time comes. In the meantime I will just keep soaking in the advice given on this forum but acting as if it goes in one ear and straight out the other.
You mean the boats you like are more popular on the west coast, none are available like it on the east coast? What could be the reason for that?
 
My favorite so far is the Ocean Alexander 40' Double Cabin but there are others I like almost as well or maybe more.

Just a thought about DCs... and ACMYs (Aft Cabin Motor Yachts)...

They wouldn't work for us. We want a cockpit, with a transom door, with a swim platform... for easier entry from dinghy level. Maybe some DCs or ACMYs could work, but the very minimum for when we've been shopping is a CPMY (Cockpit Motor Yacht)... but we haven't ever found a CPMY that rings our chimes either.

Just a comment on a feature you might not yet have thought about.

-Chris
 
Looked at a nicer Albin 36 last week. I kind marked them off list after. Between the teak decks and leaking windows they are not what I hoped for.
 
I confess I am getting tired of this thread yet here I am posting.. no one to blame but me.

I have not read the last few pages but here is my suggestion:
Buy a boat now in a location where you can store it on the hard or a good marina. Don't wait until you retire. You can find someone to check on it and do a few regular items such as washing.

I have retired twice and back at work. I enjoy boating whether working or not. I also enjoy working especially a paycheck!.If a priority you will make the time for boating. Have owned boats for 40 years, working or not.

Start dipping your toe in the water now and spending a little less time working. Find a young person with desire and work ethic to take over the business over time. Start by taking a week off, then 2-3. Eventually if they are good you can sign it over. Set their pay plan up for profit sharing and a clear and fair path to ownership. Your payout could come as a percentage of gross revenue over a 3-5 year period. I have been on both sides of this type of transition and everone did well.

A year or two from now you can cut the cord and the boat will be ready for you. You could even finance some while you have income so you are able to cash flow the likely higher costs in the first year or two of ownership. If retirement brings a windfall pay it off then.

You will then know what you cannot yet know without owning and operating a boat. Perhaps you will change the boat or work part time. Plenty of boats under $100k that should fit your needs. Retirement is really a transition and not a cliff. Start now while you can.

Cannot afford a boat now? Then likely cannot do so after you stop working.

Why wait?
 
I confess I am getting tired of this thread yet here I am posting.. no one to blame but me.
However, one good thing about this thread is we can bookmark it and next time someone asks the question give the link. All the answers are here in this thread.
 
...

Start dipping your toe in the water now and spending a little less time working. Find a young person with desire and work ethic to take over the business over time. Start by taking a week off, then 2-3. Eventually if they are good you can sign it over. Set their pay plan up for profit sharing and a clear and fair path to ownership. Your payout could come as a percentage of gross revenue over a 3-5 year period. I have been on both sides of this type of transition and everone did well.

A year or two from now you can cut the cord and the boat will be ready for you. You could even finance some while you have income so you are able to cash flow the likely higher costs in the first year or two of ownership. If retirement brings a windfall pay it off then.
....

Why wait?

Snipped the above, as I'm in that 'boat' so to speak. Mid 50s with a small company, but wanting to transition to TrawlerLife. Thinking I can start with 2-3 weeks off this summer, but maybe a month or two next summer. We have a good staff and some really hard-working management types. I'm thinking I cut my salary way back, bonus the key managers, pay them like owners, and start pulling back a bit.

We had two family friends that passed VERY unexpectedly (also mid 50s) in the past few months, and nothing will get you pulling the trigger faster than seeing people pass away well before they are retirement age.
 
The Albin 36 is an older used boat that was very popular. Because it was popular, there are a lot of them out there, with most of them in poor or so so condition. Popular boat like the Albin 36 have examples of cherry condition boats that are way cheaper than the dollars that were put into them to get them to that condition. People who fix up older boats to that condition always loose their shirts when they sell. The price is dragged down by all the poor examples available. They will be cash deals but will not be money pits. . They also don't last too long on the market.
 
Ready above gives good advice. Buy any boat now and keep it wherever. Get some insurance on it too. Now you are on the books. Have fun with your "any boat" for a couple years and learn skills.

During that time you will be able to pick out your next boat and divest your self of the "trainer boat"
 
I mostly wanted to know if I was being misled about holding out for a full displacement hull. I wanted a boat that felt stable and was told a full displacement hull was the only way to go. I ran across the DeFever 49 and liked everything about it and felt as if that was the only boat for me. But then I started seeing other boats that I liked too. Those were mostly semi-displacement hulls though, so I started ruling them out. That didn't seem logical to me. There are more SD hull boats on the loop waters than there are FD hulls. That wouldn't be true if SD was unacceptable. That's the main reason I started this thread. It worked. I got the information about the SD/FD question I needed. The topic escalated and got more interesting and more informative. Now I know the importance of walk around decks, which ironically, I was naturally drawn to anyway. A lot of other useful information got brought up too - not even stuff I asked. I liked how one user talked about floor layouts, cabin positions, etc. In this thread I've gotten boat advice, lifestyle advice, business advice, route advice, seasonal advice, possibly some dating advice and even some psychology advice (which I'm sure I need). Maybe I'm wrong but I thought all this stuff is why these forums exist. I think the conversations are great. I'm sorry if some people find them entertaining or keep reading them against their will. It was never my intention to start something that anyone would enjoy. Hope to see you on the ICW someday....
 
Not that it matters, but I will guess semi displacement is the majority of the boats on this forum as they are all around usable.
 
Looked at a nicer Albin 36 last week. I kind marked them off list after. Between the teak decks and leaking windows they are not what I hoped for.
I find this post interesting for a couple of reasons that aren't specifically based on Albins.

1.) I have read and heard multiple comments about people being anti-teak decks. Is that because they require maintenance? I think they look awesome but I've seen a lot of listing with teak decks that clearly need refinishing. To me that doesn't seem like that big of a deal - unless refinishing them is required often, in which case they could be replaced with something else maybe? Most of the faded teak decks I've seen were on brands other than Albin (not that that matters).

2.) It just so happens that I was watching a YouTube video just a couple of days ago about some people doing the loop. I wasn't paying that much attention to it but I caught one part of it where they were re-caulking the bridge windows because they were leaking. They were on a Marine Trader. I'm not defending or condemning anything. I'm just observing that teak decks and leaking windows aren't exclusive to Albins. I have noticed Albins do tend to have a lower price tag than a lot of the other brands. PierreR gave a pretty good explanation on that subject - worth noting.
 
It's not the actual teak decks that are the problem (if they are in decent shape), it's the core material sandwiched in the deck below them that rots when water migrates through the thousands of screw holes in the teak. Lots of threads and information about the joy of removing teak decks and dealing with rotten cores.
Having been there and done that (screwed) teak decks are a deal killer for me.
 
If you can find one with the decks already "done" it`s a plus. Yes, they get hotter, but they don`t leak. Big job, stripping teak, making good the often compromised deck core, laying 2 thicknesses of glass mat, refinishing, etc.
SD or FD, not sure it matters a lot. From memory, the Bayliner 4788 gets rounder as you go aft.
 
I mostly wanted to know if I was being misled about holding out for a full displacement hull. I wanted a boat that felt stable and was told a full displacement hull was the only way to go. I ran across the DeFever 49 and liked everything about it and felt as if that was the only boat for me. But then I started seeing other boats that I liked too. Those were mostly semi-displacement hulls though, so I started ruling them out. That didn't seem logical to me. There are more SD hull boats on the loop waters than there are FD hulls. That wouldn't be true if SD was unacceptable. That's the main reason I started this thread. It worked. I got the information about the SD/FD question I needed. The topic escalated and got more interesting and more informative. Now I know the importance of walk around decks, which ironically, I was naturally drawn to anyway. A lot of other useful information got brought up too - not even stuff I asked. I liked how one user talked about floor layouts, cabin positions, etc. In this thread I've gotten boat advice, lifestyle advice, business advice, route advice, seasonal advice, possibly some dating advice and even some psychology advice (which I'm sure I need). Maybe I'm wrong but I thought all this stuff is why these forums exist. I think the conversations are great. I'm sorry if some people find them entertaining or keep reading them against their will. It was never my intention to start something that anyone would enjoy. Hope to see you on the ICW someday....
When we were making the SD/FD decision, it came down to a few Y or N questions:

1. Would I use SD speeds often enough to make the upcharge in initial costs worth it?

2. Would the extra maintenance and potential system failures on a turbo diesel vs NA diesel be reasonable for the amount of times we cruise at SD speeds?

3. Were the engine choices for the boats we wanted for long-term cruising available?

These questions led us to a FD/DeFever with Lehman engines.
 
I still like your comment about going with the DeFever 49. I could easily see myself going with that or the almost completely opposite direction - like a Albin 36'. I saw a couple older Albin 36's online and they look like something I could see myself in while actually following the advice others have mentioned on this thread. I realize I rarely seem as if I'm considering taking any advice but I listen and think more than I appear to.
My Dad has an Albin 36 we are getting ready to sell. It is a 1983, engine rebuilt in 2018, very few hours since then. We are headed down to Florida next month to get it ready to sell. He did the Great Loop in that boat and spent his winters aboard for the last 7 years or so. Ping me if you want to know when we are ready to sell
 
Do all the research that you can stand and then pull the trigger on something. 1 in ten shot that you make the right call on the first boat. Save some budget to fix what you missed but the important thing is to get out there. Sometimes you make a mistake. That’s what yacht brokers and insurance are for.
 
I searched the forums a little bit and found some discussions that tip-toed around the question but without having any real knowledge whatsoever on the topic all the information was over my head Until I actually understand things, I think in the simplest possible terms being fully aware that some things are difficult to explain in the simplest terms, especially by someone who knows them well.

I'm at least a year from buying a boat. I currently believe it's what I want to do so I'm starting to look at boats and do some research. I'm a critical thinker, self-aware, logical, realistic. I'm not someone who would make a major purchase based on price, aesthetics, what some guy said, etc... I want to buy the right boat for the right reasons. The catch is that it doesn't do any good to quiz me on what I want or hope to get/accomplish because I don't know. I only sort of have some general ideas. I'm reasonably confident that I intend to stay on the loop. I currently don't have any desire or intentions of going out in the open ocean. I'm actually somewhat opposed to that. I currently don't have any intention or desire to go fast. I do have a desire, which is backed by life experience to NOT go into port any more often than necessary.

Based on what little bit I think I know, I have myself convinced that I want a trawler - a full displacement passagemaker. I have myself convinced that I want a DeFever 49. That conviction is not based on any ACTUAL knowledge though. I don't truly know what those things actually mean. I just think I do (in their simplest forms). By "passagemaker" I think - the ability to make long journeys without having to stop (basically). They can carry a lot of fuel and run non-stop for a long time. The more complicated part is the displacement part. What I think I understand about full displacement is that the hull shape absorbs a lot of the movement of the water so the boat feels more stable and the hull design is more efficient at low speeds so they burn less fuel at 6-8 knots. Both of those things sound great, almost necessary... oddly - the stability part of that is the most appealing part to me. Of course I want fuel efficiency but I want to feel stable. With these things in mind, I've been looking almost exclusively at DeFever. It appears that I could get a fairly decent 49' Pilothouse (late 80's model) for around $200K, which is close to my high-end.

But - I've seen other boats that I seemed to like a lot too that in some ways seem nicer than the DeFever and in many cases for a lot less money. Grand Banks, Ocean Alexander, Marine Trader, just to name a few. It is my understanding that none of those are full displacement hull boats though. I also seem to think I want a 49'er or close to it. Part of that is also based on life experiences of buying or building something and then wishing I would have went bigger after it's too late. So I started watching some YouTube videos about people boating on the loop. I found some good ones. Most of them were in semi-displacement boats (which I'm unclear if they can technically be called a trawler). None of them seemed to have any trouble handling the water. I even saw a couple do the loop on a 34'er, which seems ridiculous to me - but they didn't seem to have any trouble.

So I guess it's time for some questions.

1.) Am I putting too much emphasis on displacement? (stability/diesel burn rate)
2.) If it's just me or maybe one other person is 49' too much? I honestly don't think so but I'm curious what other people think - especially because I don't plan on upgrading later. I plan on a one-time purchase that I will keep until I'm done.

I'm sure all said and done it boils down to - almost any loop capable boat is fine as long as it's in good working condition and I don't dislike it, how much boat can I handle and stuff like that. I'm just curious what real boaters will say vs what all the brokers want you to hear.
Buying the boat is the easy part because it’s predictable. It’s all the deferred maintenance, ongoing expenses, and upgrades that can sink your budget. So as a lifelong boater my philosophy has been to buy the smallest boat that can accomplish the mission and keep the systems as simple as possible. Also make the particular boat work for 80% of what you want to do and compromise on the 20% of things you may think you want to do or just do 20% of the time.
Every additional foot of boat cost more for everything!
 
We thought we wanted a trawler but when push came to shove, the budget came into play, along with the very real fear of how to replace aging fuel tanks in boats that either had to have the engines removed or the tanks cut out in place, or removed through the side of the hull. Walk around decks were important just for ease of docking with two of us. The miserable selection of overpriced aging trawlers with leaking windows, rotten stringers and old fuel tanks had us change direction and we bought a 370 Carver voyager with V8 gas engines. She gets up and goes fast when we need to get somewhere but putts around more economically at 8kts the rest of the time The fuel tank access is superb so no worries on this 30 year old boat. We just had to add a bimini and sunshades for the back deck, because the sun beating on those sliding glass salon doors made the place a greenhouse. As sailboat owners before, the need for 2 a/c units on a boat with lots of windows was not something we were familiar with. Keep your options open, don't disregard a smaller boat in great condition, and remember that every extra foot costs more to buy and maintain.
 
Lot's already said, kind of feels like this thread has run it's course, but one thing I'll add is don't get too caught up on a particular make and model. Go to trawlerfest, or other boat shows. Get on as many boats as you can. Crawl around as many spaces as they'll let you. It's easy to sit on the computer and speculate on which boat has all the right ingredients, but if you are serious, you have to try them on for size. And when you go on them, envision your AC drains are leaking and clogged. Can you fit where you'll need to go to fix them? Can you see what you need to see to dock from the flybridge? From the pilot house? You say you'll do your own maintenance and repairs. I'd take a long look at the engine room and make sure I could get around everything without having to hire a skinny kid.
 
Buying the boat is the easy part because it’s predictable. It’s all the deferred maintenance, ongoing expenses, and upgrades that can sink your budget. So as a lifelong boater my philosophy has been to buy the smallest boat that can accomplish the mission and keep the systems as simple as possible. Also make the particular boat work for 80% of what you want to do and compromise on the 20% of things you may think you want to do or just do 20% of the time.
Every additional foot of boat cost more for everything!
But But, the smallest boat to do the job kept getting bigger over the last 50 years.
 
I searched the forums a little bit and found some discussions that tip-toed around the question but without having any real knowledge whatsoever on the topic all the information was over my head Until I actually understand things, I think in the simplest possible terms being fully aware that some things are difficult to explain in the simplest terms, especially by someone who knows them well.

I'm at least a year from buying a boat. I currently believe it's what I want to do so I'm starting to look at boats and do some research. I'm a critical thinker, self-aware, logical, realistic. I'm not someone who would make a major purchase based on price, aesthetics, what some guy said, etc... I want to buy the right boat for the right reasons. The catch is that it doesn't do any good to quiz me on what I want or hope to get/accomplish because I don't know. I only sort of have some general ideas. I'm reasonably confident that I intend to stay on the loop. I currently don't have any desire or intentions of going out in the open ocean. I'm actually somewhat opposed to that. I currently don't have any intention or desire to go fast. I do have a desire, which is backed by life experience to NOT go into port any more often than necessary.

Based on what little bit I think I know, I have myself convinced that I want a trawler - a full displacement passagemaker. I have myself convinced that I want a DeFever 49. That conviction is not based on any ACTUAL knowledge though. I don't truly know what those things actually mean. I just think I do (in their simplest forms). By "passagemaker" I think - the ability to make long journeys without having to stop (basically). They can carry a lot of fuel and run non-stop for a long time. The more complicated part is the displacement part. What I think I understand about full displacement is that the hull shape absorbs a lot of the movement of the water so the boat feels more stable and the hull design is more efficient at low speeds so they burn less fuel at 6-8 knots. Both of those things sound great, almost necessary... oddly - the stability part of that is the most appealing part to me. Of course I want fuel efficiency but I want to feel stable. With these things in mind, I've been looking almost exclusively at DeFever. It appears that I could get a fairly decent 49' Pilothouse (late 80's model) for around $200K, which is close to my high-end.

But - I've seen other boats that I seemed to like a lot too that in some ways seem nicer than the DeFever and in many cases for a lot less money. Grand Banks, Ocean Alexander, Marine Trader, just to name a few. It is my understanding that none of those are full displacement hull boats though. I also seem to think I want a 49'er or close to it. Part of that is also based on life experiences of buying or building something and then wishing I would have went bigger after it's too late. So I started watching some YouTube videos about people boating on the loop. I found some good ones. Most of them were in semi-displacement boats (which I'm unclear if they can technically be called a trawler). None of them seemed to have any trouble handling the water. I even saw a couple do the loop on a 34'er, which seems ridiculous to me - but they didn't seem to have any trouble.

So I guess it's time for some questions.

1.) Am I putting too much emphasis on displacement? (stability/diesel burn rate)
2.) If it's just me or maybe one other person is 49' too much? I honestly don't think so but I'm curious what other people think - especially because I don't plan on upgrading later. I plan on a one-time purchase that I will keep until I'm done.

I'm sure all said and done it boils down to - almost any loop capable boat is fine as long as it's in good working condition and I don't dislike it, how much boat can I handle and stuff like that. I'm just curious what real boaters will say vs what all the brokers want you to hear.
American Tugs do the loop all the time on 36' ft models. $200,000 sounds really high for late 80s. Insurance can be higher for older vessels and there's a lot of stuff that just wears out. Windows sealant for one. Plus a lot of teak to maintain. I lived on one for 10 years. Go to a boat show, climb on the used and new boats just to get an idea. THEN BUY A BOAT WITH BOW/STERN THRUSTERS. Good luck.
 
#1. Yes, you're putting too much emphasis on stability and burn rate.
#2. Is a Defever 49 too much? No, but it may not be the right boat.

Common mis-statements by first time trawler buyers:

#1
"If it can cross an ocean, it can do anything I want it to do." Sounds logical but here's the fallacy: A boat capable of crossing an ocean may be capable of doing the Loop, but it's not designed for it. It has lousy ventilation. Often deeper draft. Expensive. Air draft is a problem. And they're expensive (I know- said that twice).

#2. "Someday, I may want to cross an ocean - I don't want to rule it out." There's an ancient Chinese saying that you cannot tell a tadpole what it's like to be a frog. In my opinion, there are a lot of boats that look a lot more robust than they actually are. Defever 49 with it's Portuguese bridge is one of them (KK 42 is another). With some effort and luck, you can get them across an ocean (someone did with a sistership to my Willard 36; and someone took a a GB42 from California to Hawaii too), but that doesn't mean they're fit-for-purpose.

#3. "Fuel efficient is really important - I want a displacement trawler. I own one of - if not the most efficient distance-capable trawlers on TrawlerForum. I've published a few lengthy threads on TF about our journey from San Francisco to Golfito, 3500 nms over the course of 9-12 months of active cruising (we've had breaks along the way). Our cruising costs are around $4k-$5k per month. Fuel is an asterisk in the cost column. Maybe $3k out of $50k in expenses - 6%. We've spent more on beer. More on tacos.

#4 - I plan to anchor-out all the time." I'm likely to piss-off some folks but I'll say it anyway: for the most part, people who don't have to anchor-out all the time don't. They balance their time in marinas unless (1) there aren't marinas (or none that can accommodate their boat); (2) they cannot afford a marina; or (3) they're too cheap to pay. for a marina. Anchoring out is great - not saying its all-or-nothing. Just saying that the vast majority of cruisers we've met spend a fair amount of time in marinas because there are some hassles to being anchored (trash, A/C, travel inland, etc.).

Here's the brutal facts: Folks generally take 2-years to do The Loop. Around 800 engine hours - 400 per year. Of those 400, less than 5% suck - 20-hours or so. There are almost 9000 hours in a year - why buy a boat optimized for 20-hours instead of all the other time you'll be aboard?

I love the Defever 49 (and the 44+5) but they wouldn't make the long-list for The Loop. Wrong tool for the job.

Peter
We've spent more on beer. More on tacos.

Love this!
 
Lot's already said, kind of feels like this thread has run it's course, but one thing I'll add is don't get too caught up on a particular make and model. Go to trawlerfest, or other boat shows. Get on as many boats as you can. Crawl around as many spaces as they'll let you. It's easy to sit on the computer and speculate on which boat has all the right ingredients, but if you are serious, you have to try them on for size. And when you go on them, envision your AC drains are leaking and clogged. Can you fit where you'll need to go to fix them? Can you see what you need to see to dock from the flybridge? From the pilot house? You say you'll do your own maintenance and repairs. I'd take a long look at the engine room and make sure I could get around everything without having to hire a skinny kid.
I am a skinny kid - for an old, stocky guy in my late 50's anyway. :)
 
I definitely need to go to one of those boat things and physically check some out. It really is impossible to know from looking at pictures. It seems to me that boat makers went to great lengths to make sure they didn't build anything that would give you everything. It's like they intentionally went out of their way to make sure that if you wanted one thing you would have to compromise on something else. I'm starting to think that I'll have to go to the PNW even though I don't want to. It appears that's where all the best boats are though. On the other hand, I saw some guy on YouTube doing the loop on a shanty. He seems pretty happy. Maybe I'll just find a small aluminum barge and build my own... J/K p.s. I'm not planning on doing the loop but I'm not opposed to it just sort of happening without intentions.
 
Back
Top Bottom