Passenger capacity of a 37' Grand Mariner?

[Chris M]

Hi all, can anyone give me an idea of how many people I can safely have on board my 1977 tri-cabin C&L Grand Mariner, 37'? She has a 13' beam if that makes any difference.

I'm assuming at least six, going by the berths she has (two singles in the V-berth, double bed in the aft cabin, and of course the table and settee converts to a double bed), but could I have eight, or even ten people on her? Assuming of course enough life jackets for everyone.

She holds 300 gallons of fuel when she's full, so I don't suppose an extra 300 lbs or so will make that much of a difference to her, but I don't want to get into a "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario.

I've looked online, and tried to find her manual, or even brochure, without success; at least 70% of what's out there is the online listings in various places for this boat (which I just bought Monday, so of course none of the listings are down yet)! And I just don't have enough experience yet to say yea or nay myself.

Any thoughts, or ideas how I could calculate it, or where I might be able to hunt the info down?

Thanks!

 

[O C Diver]

The issue for day cruising will be how many people or more importantly weight on the flybridge of to the gunnel. Inspected vessels will have weight limits for people on the flybridge as it changes the center of gravity. They will also have person limits based on if all passengers moved to one side or the other.

Further, each person would also need a PFD. Also, there would be a consideration for where you plan to operate it. A Christmas parade in a protected harbor would be very different from traveling into the ocean to fish.

Primarily this is a weight consideration. Taking 6 grandchildren at an average of 50 pounds each with 2 adults to supervise is very different from 8 buddies who weigh 300 pounds each.

Ted

 

[Chris M]

Hmm, the guy who did her survey last week might be someone to ask, then. Thanks!

 

[Comodave]

What Trd said. Also the ability to move around the boat safely.

 

[C lectric]

Manuals can sometimes be found through EBAY. Just be prepared for a long wait. Look for their long wait choice so your question stays on site for a good while.
I used that feature to get some out of production tools. Took a while.

What is the engine? Keep that at hand including the serial number. Sometimes you can get help or a manual photocopied by asking boat repair places in the area. You likely will have to pay for the time and paper.

 

[Chris M]

I'll try the eBay route, thanks.

The engine seems to have been repainted several times; if it's even got a serial number on it I certainly can't see it, and I've looked everywhere on it.

This might be it; it's on the side just below where it says "Ford-Lehman"; I think it's a little plaque riveted on. But if you can make out the numbers you've got better eyes than I do!

I can't tell you guys how absolutely fed up I'm getting, trying to insure her. I do have experience on boats; I grew up on river boats; and I've sailed the Munin, the 42' Viking longship they built in Burnaby about 20 years ago (helped to build her and got married on her).

But none of that was in the last five years, so on the forms it looks like I don't have any experience at all. And I only have to fill out the bloody form because she's over 36'—she's 37'.

And on top of all that, the one place that is willing to insure me wants her HIN, and not only the make but also the model of her engine, and the year it was built, and its serial number—none of which I have. She's too old to have a HIN. And I've got no way to find any of the rest out.

But there's a way around it! I can just register her! —Except I can't do that either, because she's already got a Pleasure Craft License and you can't do both. And she doesn't need to be registered; she's not being used commercially, she's too small, and I'm not leaving Canadian waters.

And she's already got her license number on her; I don't want to have to scrape it off and change it, bah.

So I went to the same insurance agent her previous owners used, since they weren't required to provide a HIN or register her, and that place don't want either, which is great, but because she's one foot too long, I've got to deal with this bloody Operator's Questionnaire form, which is looking very empty around the "Experience" part.

Goddammit, the boat's in great shape, and I have my license. I've been jumping through hoops for the past two weeks straight!

It's driving me up the wall that I can't just buy a normal-sized boat, to eventually live aboard, and meanwhile putter up and down the coast of Vancouver Island, in the daytime, at a stunning 7 knots in a tailwind, and put insurance on her so I can moor her in a marina.

Sigh. I'm just venting, but god damn. It's not like she's a speedboat! I'm pretty sure that at the speed she can do, if I actually hit anything, she'd just bounce. Bah!

 

[Andy G]

A thought. When you say she is 37' is that measured at the waterline or are you just taking it as 37' because that is how she is described. My IG 36' is not 36' feet at the waterline, maybe you could use a waterline measurement for insurance purposes. Might be worth a try.

 

[CharlieO.]

I am surprised there isn't a HIN I have one on my 1977 Marine Trader. The engine info you are looking for is usually on a metal tab, if I remember correctly it is toward the rear of the engine near the bellhousing area.

 

[Chris M]

A thought. When you say she is 37' is that measured at the waterline or are you just taking it as 37' because that is how she is described. My IG 36' is not 36' feet at the waterline, maybe you could use a waterline measurement for insurance purposes. Might be worth a try.

Ooh, what a good idea! Thanks, I'll try that!

 

[Chris M]

I am surprised there isn't a HIN I have one on my 1977 Marine Trader. The engine info you are looking for is usually on a metal tab, if I remember correctly it is toward the rear of the engine near the bellhousing area.

She's currently on the hard and I have looked over every inch of her hull, and I just can't see it anywhere.

I found her tender's one on its transom easily enough, but the surveyor couldn't find hers either. And he's told me that they didn't really become standard until sometime in the Eighties, so he figured she didn't have one. The previous owners didn't have any idea what or where it might be, either.

But that makes me think that perhaps the insurance place they were using might have it, especially if the guy they bought her from was using the same place. I'll talk to them in the morning.

 

[CaptTom]

Don't put too much effort into finding a "manual" for your boat. First of all, the brochure from the builder isn't always all that informative. And secondly, many things have probably been changed since then.

A boat is a collection of systems. Each one has individual parts, many of which you can find part numbers and manuals for. Very few of these were made by the boat manufacturer, and most will be common to many different brands, makes and models of boat. With rare exceptions, the boat make and model are irrelevant.

Start making your own manual library. Inventory your systems and write down any part numbers you can find. Search those on line and download whatever you find.

Oh, and on a recreational boat that size there is no "official" or legal passenger limit. Generally you'll know what's comfortable, given the layout of the boat and the conditions. Obviously overloading to the point where scuppers are underwater or the boat becomes unstable is unwise, but I think you'll find it gets uncomfortably crowded before you reach that point.

 

[Chris M]

I do have the manuals for a lot of the individual systems, like the Dickinson heater, so that's very helpful to know. Sounds lilke I've been hunting down a manual that probably doesn't even exist, and wouldn't provide much information anyways.

Yeah, it sounds like 6 is about the number that would conveniently fit aboard; aside from the berths, I wouldn't be able to fit more than six on the settee, although I suppose I could pull a couple of the lawn chairs inside.

I'll go with six, then, I guess, with the proviso that so long as we're not sleeping over, or particularly heavy, I can probably do one or more, but no more than four regular-sized people on the bridge at one time.

I can work with that. Thanks for the advice, guys!

 

[SteveK]

Someone once posted more eloquently;
the boat sleeps 6, dines with 4, and cruises with 2.

 

[Chris M]

Ha! Well said.

(I know she'll cruise with 4 too, though, lol)

 

[slowgoesit]

Someone once posted more eloquently;
the boat sleeps 6, dines with 4, and cruises with 2.

I heard it
"Drink for 6
Dinner for 4
Sleeps 2"

Occasionally, when hosting a Sundowner get together, getting that last couple to leave was sometimes problematic!

 

[Shrew]

The problem with the HIN is you're in Canada. A HIN was required after 1972 in the US, however it wasn't required in Canada until Aug. 1 1981. So if the boat was imported into Canada in 1977 and has remained there since import, then it is very possible it doesn't have a HIN.

For that you'd need to discuss what they were using for a HIN in the insurance paperwork of the previous owner. OR find out what to do with a boat with no HIN in Canada.

 

[SteveK]

An old copy of the insurance should work to show whether there is a HIN or not. Too often agents go by the book and do not know if one exists or not.
Thanks Shrew for reminder HIN only became necessary in 1981 here, that info itself should be all the agent needs to see.

 

[RedRascal]

Sometimes a serial/hull number will be on a stringer in the engine room and are decent size like an inch or two high. I think given the size of the boat you should be able to have 10 people onboard. 10 probably wouldn't be the a great cruising experience but if folks were spread out and not all on one side of the flybridge I have a hard time seeing how you'd get into trouble in common cruising conditions. Good luck with the insurance.

 

[BruceK]

Years ago I asked our regulator, Roads & Maritime, for the compulsory people load stickers they stipulate you must have, for my then 36ft boat. Bizarrely, they sent blank ones, and told me to fill in the numbers. I did some uneducated guessing, came up with around 12 I think. I doubt finding a HIN will take you far.
To be safe from "overloading" accusation/prosecution, I could have put "100", but erred on the side of reason.

 

[SteveK]

Sometimes a serial/hull number will be on a stringer in the engine room and are decent size like an inch or two high. I think given the size of the boat you should be able to have 10 people onboard. 10 probably wouldn't be the a great cruising experience but if folks were spread out and not all on one side of the flybridge I have a hard time seeing how you'd get into trouble in common cruising conditions. Good luck with the insurance.

stating 10 on an insurance application form may put up red flags however.
It could suggest inexperience or a plan to do charters, neither of which they want to see on the standard insurance. JMO

 

[RedRascal]

If it does throw a red flag with insurance it should be really easy to defend. Just show a couple Bayliner specs of smaller boats, for example:
29 Foot Bayliner T29, 10 person capacity, Bayliner Trophy T29 Explorer Fishing Boat | Bayliner
25 foot Bayliner T25, 11people, Bayliner Trophy T25 Explorer Fishing Boat | Bayliner
22 foot Bayliner D22, 12 people, Bayliner D22 – Explore Deck Boat Models | Bayliner

Old thread from 2016 about passengers on a 37 foot trawler, Passengers - how many?

 

[Portage_Bay]

Occasionally, when hosting a Sundowner get together, getting that last couple to leave was sometimes problematic!

Try saying "Let's get to bed honey, so these folks can get on home."

 

[Chris M]

So, um, when I asked the previous owners if they knew her length at the waterline, they said 37'. Sigh...

So I had them measure her at the yard. Her waterline is 32', which is awesome (but the insurer wouldn't take that, drat it). But it ends up that the Aquaculture course I'm in the middle of gives me a bunch of Small Vessel certifications by the end of it, in, like, six weeks, so, awesome!.

But, er... Tip to tail, bowsprit to the far edge of her tender... She's 42'.

I did not tell the insurance agent that lol.

(I suspect the 37' is minus the tender, and possibly the swim grid, but the tender for sure).

So here's a question for y'all: When you give the length of your boats, do you include the bowsprit? And the swimgrid? Or nah?

 

[Portage_Bay]

I give length over all. Swim step to bow pulpit.

 

[Chris M]

Cool, thanks!

 

[luna]

So here's a question for y'all: When you give the length of your boats, do you include the bowsprit? And the swimgrid? Or nah?

It depends on who is asking the question and for what purpose.

Marinas always want to know the overall length so that they can charge you for the space you occupy at the dock. That seems fair. Please include your tow behind tender in your length or hoist it aboard.

Years ago the boat manufacturers all quoted the hull length, that did not include the bowsprit or swim grid. Then some genius in the marketing department realized that if they included the overhanging bits in the quoted length, for sales purposes, the boat got bigger. The genie was out of the bottle, we are now all doomed.

Your Federal Government continues to want only the hull length, in Metres no less.

Your Insurer will likely accept whatever the Surveyor says it is, even if the units are furlongs.

 

[CharlieO.]

I only give LOA when specifically asked for it, otherwise I just give model length.

 

[ranger58sb]

So here's a question for y'all: When you give the length of your boats, do you include the bowsprit? And the swimgrid? Or nah?

It depends on who is asking the question and for what purpose.

Marinas always want to know the overall length so that they can charge you for the space you occupy at the dock. That seems fair. Please include your tow behind tender in your length or hoist it aboard.

And sometimes it can actually be critical you gave the marina a full-length number... as when, for example, they intend to slot you into a face dock space roughly only 1' longer than your boat. Not uncommon during the Atlantic migration...

We've been in a situation where docking meant gently and momentarily moving our bow pulpit and anchor over the top of a sportfish cockpit in front, then backing our dinghy underneath the anchor of the boat behind... followed by lots more of that, back and forth, 'til we got squared away. Spring lines can be your friend...

-Chris

 

[slowgoesit]

If going into a marina we generally say "Registered 50'". If they ask further, we tell the OAL, which is 61.6' . . . .
We have a swim step mounted dinghy davit, and a bowsprit.
We went in for haulout in Port Townsend, WA a few years ago. The lady at the desk asked "What is your length?" I said "62' overall, but registered 50'" She said, "We'll use 50', that'll save you some money!" Bless her heart!

 

[rgano]

Here is how to find the serial number of your Ford-Lehman 120 from the engine manual:

The model and serial number of your engine is easily located by reference to the following drawing. It will be noted that an identification plate with detailed information is affixed to the flywheel housing (starting May, 1972) at approximately the 2 o'clock position. Serial number is also stamped on a "pod" located at front, right side of engine block (behind water hose). The cubic inch displacement of engine is stamped on similar pad at rear of block, right side.

When I found the front right location serial number, it turned out to be a bit of the top of the block on an UNPAINTED area not covered by the head, meaning it was on a horizontal bit of metal maybe a bit toward the forward end of the injector pump. Given the amount of paint on your engine, I suspect you will have to use a razor scraper to clean off all the paint on that surface. The surface was maybe 1/2 inch wide by an inch and a half long.

Here in Florida, there is a process one can go through to generate a HIN for older boats. I did it once for a very old 13-foot Whaler I wanted to sell. Maybe Canada has such...