Paid for a New Furuno, Got an Old Furuno

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Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
811
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Tortuga
Vessel Make
Nordhavn 63
We had our Furuno TZT black box replaced in summer of 2019 due to some persistent malfunctions. When we had continuing problems and decided to send it back to Furuno last month for diagnosis and repairs, we got an unexpected surprise.

Furuno ran the serial number to check for any possible warranty coverage and found that the unit that we had been sold as new in 2019 was, in fact, a 5-year-old used unit at the time it was installed. It had originally been sold in 2014 and registered to a buyer in Seattle.

I contacted the vendor that we had bought from to help sort out what I hoped was a mistake. There was no mistake, and they had installed a well-used black box in place of the new box that we had agreed to buy. We were charged full retail price (CAD $7K) for the “new” box and the invoice says new black box.

I eventually met with the owner and manager of the company. They made lame excuses including that I had “waited too long” since the transaction before I complained to them. They made it clear that they had no intention of trying to make it right, and apparently feel no responsibility or guilt for being caught doing this.

In the few weeks since this happened, I have had multiple people share other stories of negative experiences with the same vendor. I was new to the area at the time I hired them to do work, so I didn’t have the benefit of local references.

The moral to the story is do careful research before hiring a vendor or contractor for your boat (or elsewhere). Ask around enough and you will learn who is trustworthy and who is not. There are lots of ways to get ripped off, so don’t take anything for granted. Hire those that deserve your trust, and be careful out there.
 
Make sure you tell Furuno and make sure the others do the same. Furuno may revoke their dealership and service.
 
https://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/

I would not stand for that kind of behavior. Don’t know if there is a time limit to file a suit but in some states the clock starts at time of discovery. Don’t think you could lose. CA has a limit of $10k for individuals.
 
Agree with both above...
I would make a strong argument to Furano that you purchased from one of THEIR dealers not some Clist or eBay seller and expect some reasonable level if confidence from the mfg ( they control dealers)
I would ask them how they would suggest / prefer to settle this?
If no satisfaction I would file BBB complaint, contact the state AG and inquire as to what your alternatives are to settle a fraudulent sale?
As a last resort I'd file a small claims suit against both the mfg and the dealer.

My experience with these sorts of stone walling is persistence pays and the key is to find the right resource and it gets settled quickly.

Exs of the above I fought Verizon for months trying to get a significant / mistaken over payment returned and was getting nowhere. When I involved the Public Service Commission (because it was telephone related) I got a very rapid & cooperative response from Verizon.
Another situation where a motorhome chassis mfg was stone walling repairs related to a recall claiming it was a maintenance item. After involving NHTSA that Mfg was not living up to the recall conditions the mfg called quickly and wanted it settled... as a cresult they paid for 99% of what I requested including maint items like brake pads & rotors that were damaged prematurely due to the defective calipers (that were recalled). In fact they paid for 3 sets that were damaged before the new calipers were available and replaced.
The key is to finding the " best" commission, agency, etc that holds some leverage over the mfg and their certifications.
I dont know if someone like FCC holds any wt in this case... maybe check the mfg label for any certifications claimed for the equipment?
 
Buying the gear yourself and delivering it to the installer is one way to avoid this kind of thing.
 
I don't know what this site's terms and rules are on this sort of thing, but if permissible and you choose to, you can start by naming names here.

I'm not in the PNW. It doesn't affect me at all. It might aid others in that area.

Just a thought.
 
I contacted the vendor that we had bought from to help sort out what I hoped was a mistake. There was no mistake, and they had installed a well-used black box in place of the new box that we had agreed to buy. We were charged full retail price (CAD $7K) for the “new” box and the invoice says new black box.

I eventually met with the owner and manager of the company. They made lame excuses including that I had “waited too long” since the transaction before I complained to them. They made it clear that they had no intention of trying to make it right, and apparently feel no responsibility or guilt for being caught doing this.

Was the vendor from who you bought the Furuno part a Furuno dealer? If so, I would have felt confident trading with them, and would have proceeded without much due-diligence as to their reputation and credibility along the waterfront. And if so, I would hope and expect Furuno to intervene in a situation like this, which could endanger their excellent brand. But maybe not - I've been in this exact position after trusting an authorized dealer for a major engine manufacturer to be as credible as the manufacturer itself. Turned out that if I had just done a little asking around about this particular dealer, I would have gotten 100% red flags, and rightly so. That particular dealer was / is a reckless hot mess.

If your electronics vendor was not an authorized dealer for Furuno, your recourse is probably thin. It reinforces your point about checking carefully into people's reputation. But this episode still reflects poorly on whichever electronics manufacturer the vendor does represent as a dealer. The outfit clearly lacks integrity, and apparently isn't worried about who knows it.
 
https://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/

I would not stand for that kind of behavior. Don’t know if there is a time limit to file a suit but in some states the clock starts at time of discovery. Don’t think you could lose. CA has a limit of $10k for individuals.


In principal, I totally agree. The series of events is pretty clearly documented so the claim would be as close to a no-brainer as they get.

In reality, I would have to deal with it from 1000 miles away, and/or sacrifice cruising and personal time in order to chase the money. Its just not worth it to me; the time is more valuable than whatever money I would recover. Life is too short to choose to spend time and energy on negative things if its avoidable.
 
Furuno is very much aware of the situation. So are other relevant industry people. None were shocked when they heard who was involved.

The vendor is not an authorized Furuno dealer. I didn't expect to be buying a new black box when I hired someone to check it out; I thought I just needed a knowledgeable electronics tech. Once the process was underway, the path of least resistance (lame excuse) was to proceed with the same vendor. The individual tech was fine (and no longer works there); it is the company culture that is less so.

There was a lot going on at the time with multiple boat jobs underway in preparation for a big trip and I didn't pay as much attention to this situation as I should have.
 
There was a lot going on at the time with multiple boat jobs underway in preparation for a big trip and I didn't pay as much attention to this situation as I should have.

Well, if you tracked my threads, I'm on the next barstool crying in my beer with you. Kidding aside, I really feel for you. And totally understand how sometimes preserving brain cells means just looking forward.

Curious why not call-out the merchant by name? I obviously called out my screwball guys, partially to be vidictive, but mostly to alert others. I didn't mention it on my threads, but I did reach out to Mario/Niza Marine before I posted the pictures online at NizaMarine.net to see if he had any comments I should include. Predictably, crickets.

Best to you.

Peter
 
Well, if you tracked my threads, I'm on the next barstool crying in my beer with you. Kidding aside, I really feel for you. And totally understand how sometimes preserving brain cells means just looking forward.

Curious why not call-out the merchant by name? I obviously called out my screwball guys, partially to be vidictive, but mostly to alert others. I didn't mention it on my threads, but I did reach out to Mario/Niza Marine before I posted the pictures online at NizaMarine.net to see if he had any comments I should include. Predictably, crickets.

Best to you.

Peter


The vendor was Raven Marine near Sidney, BC.

I didn't name them in the original post because it would only matter to someone local, and also because I thought the story might be worthwhile to share regardless of the players.

There is an old saying about if you aren't sure if you are saying or doing the right thing, to think about how you will feel if it shows up on the front page of tomorrow's newspaper. If Raven is comfortable with their actions, they shouldn't mind me sharing their name.

Now pass that pitcher of beer.
 
was the work done in the pacific northwest? I would like to know who to avoid if the need arises.
 
Even more importantly would more sharing of who we find are GOOD. A service to us and to them.
 
That is completely unacceptable. I just walked by Raven the other day. Glad to know, as while I’m happy with my current boat yard, I definitely would never consider using them.
 
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Some people are scum
Seems to be an increasing amount of them these days.
 
Based on what I read above, have you considered running it past the Police who might take the running. I readily understand you don`t want to waste more time on it, but not everyone in the boating community reads TF, many won`t see the warning.
 
Simi has it about right - some people are scum. The piece that really irked me was he apparently said "it had been too long" which I'm guessing means he's using a warranty period as a defense. As if warranty covers fraud. Though his actions, he deprived the OP of material information from which to make an informed decision. Integrity is a maleable thing. I'm sure the vendor holds himself in high esteem.

In real-life, I'm a bit of a pugilist and don't shy away from a fight. But there are times where you have to pick your battles - glad the OP has found peace on this one and will get the system he wants, albeit at an elevated price.

I would however encourage folks to write an online review - Google Reviews are definitely impactful. If you Google "Raven Marine Services" they will come up. If you have a Google Account, the opportunity to post a review will be open to you. Yelp is another place to post a review - it makes a difference.

Peter
 
Exactly....
Some mfg / dealers stand behind their products
Others hide behind the warranty
 
The piece that really irked me was he apparently said "it had been too long" which I'm guessing means he's using a warranty period as a defense. As if warranty covers fraud. Though his actions, he deprived the OP of material information from which to make an informed decision. Integrity is a maleable thing. I'm sure the vendor holds himself in high esteem.

Peter

You are 100% correct. He kept trying to redirect the conversation to make it a warranty issue which of course it is not.

Everyone loves to say that they want to do the right thing. My response in the vendor conversation was that everyone wants to do the right thing until it costs them money. They took offense to that but it seems like the shoe fits pretty well.
 
Some people are scum
Seems to be an increasing amount of them these days.

As a proportion of the human population, I'm not sure there are any more dirtballs per 100,000 than there ever have been. But the longer we live, the more of them we're likely to meet.
 
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A lot of good advice in the thread. Compiling some of it.

1. Buy only from authorized dealers. Always on any product.

2. Check serial numbers on major items with manufacturer. Several former boat builders sold with old engines including Trinity and Northern.

3. There is still possible recourse with your regulatory agency as a fraudulent activity and, also, with small claims court. Normally this would be beyond the statute of limitation. However, factors here may extend that including the fact you weren't aware of the issue until late and that fraud was involved.
 
Are there deal / installer review sites worth checking on? I see Google and Yelp recommended, but don't see many reviews. Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Are there deal / installer review sites worth checking on? I see Google and Yelp recommended, but don't see many reviews. Inquiring minds want to know.

I think this is a category without much depth to online reviews. I have always found the local boaters to be the best resource. Once you find one or two solid vendors, ask them for others. The good guys know each other and they know who to avoid.

In my case (as the OP) I was new to town and hadn’t built any info network yet. Had it been even a few months later, I would have chosen vendors differently because I had some good resources for recommendations.

A factory authorized dealer has some safety margin because the manufacturer may back some resolution to a problem, and will almost certainly pressure their dealer to do the right thing. They have leverage over a bad-actor dealer because they can ban them from being a dealer. There are some great vendors that are not factory dealers and some factory dealers that I would avoid, but in a case like this it would offer some insurance.
 
A factory authorized dealer has some safety margin because the manufacturer may back some resolution to a problem, and will almost certainly pressure their dealer to do the right thing. They have leverage over a bad-actor dealer because they can ban them from being a dealer. There are some great vendors that are not factory dealers and some factory dealers that I would avoid, but in a case like this it would offer some insurance.

Plus the factory won't help in your case because they'd like to see dealers like this out of business and want to discourage people from using them. The would provide support if you sued. It's like buying watches or electronics on the street.
 
I have always found the local boaters to be the best resource. Once you find one or two solid vendors, ask them for others. The good guys know each other and they know who to avoid.

Amen. Whenever I happen to mention a bad experience with a certain marine repair shop / marina here in Jacksonville, it takes most local boaters and other vendors about two seconds to guess who I'm talking about.
 
Blissboat...

New to JAX. Please share name "certain marine repair shop" or PM me.

Thanks!
 
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