Our RIB davits. There has to be a better way!

[boomerang]

OK TF members, please be slightly compassionate and don't prove me to be a total dumbass right away ,being so close to Christmas and all ,but I'm looking for advise regarding how I'm supposed to lift our RIB. One of the things that I thought I liked about our boat when we bought it last spring was the Edson dinghy davits that the PO had installed on the transom. Though there wasn't a boat on it, I was informed that a West Marine 310 RIB had been used as a tender. I thought that would be perfect because we has that model on our last boat and were happy with the performance.
Last summer we bought a 310 RIB and also bought some stainless chain and shackles to make a 3-point lifting bridle.
Admittedly, my only experience with tenders was a small fiberglass dink on the back of our Mainship using Weaver dinghy-davit hook things which required removing the motor each time ; not a big deal because it was a little honda ,plus, once the dink was clipped onto the davit loops on the swim platform, the whole thing was super stable and the motor was easily installed & removed. On our last boat, an Albin, the PO installed Hurley davits which, while professionally installed, I hated (sorry Scott. It was nothing you did wrong but that setup was a SOB to load the 200+ lb RIB onto). It seemed to me that system would work better on a cockpit boat with a swim platform that was a little closer to the water rather than a double cabin trawler with a high transom and no room to maneuver on the narrow platform. If it wasn't for the mast and gaff rig on the Albin that was used to more or less pick up the rib and set it on the davits rather than sliding the RIB up onto them, I never would have made the Hurley things work.
Which is why I was excited to try these for-real lifting davits and not have to worry about motor removal like the Weaver system or man-handling the tender onto Hurley slide davits. Which brings me to the point of my post and my begging for help.
I've attached pictures of the dinghy on the Edson davits as it is now. If the boat was never in rough water , there wouldn't be an issue but with any motion, the RIB starts swinging wildly like a giant rubber pendulum. So, when we travel, I have to attach lines criss crossing every which way in an awkward attempt to stabilize it in any kind of seas.
I've ,without success, perused the docks looking at others lifting systems and also the internet for perhaps a picture or accessory to make our setup better. I'm hoping the answer to my predicament is held here in the wisdom of TF members.
The pictures clearly show swiveling pads designed to capture the inboard tube of the RIB but there's no way motor end of the RIB will come high enough to touch the pads with the bridal chain used (and needed) to lift the thing. Maybe a lifting bar that attaches to the inside of the fiberglass portion of the rib? It seems I've heard of something like this but can't find one online. Do I need to get something custom made or am I lifting the thing incorrectly?
I take it back. You don't have to be kind to me and I'll acknowledge I'm a dumbass if someone can just help me with my dinghy delima!

 

[rslifkin]

Needing to tie the dinghy down after lifting is pretty much unavoidable with lifting davits. Even more so if the dinghy doesn't contact parts of the davit frame in the lifted position.

We've got a few tie-down lines on our dinghy (some of them are visible in the picture below). They pull it forward slightly so it sits against some small fenders attached to the stern rail and also against the davit upright at the stern end of the dinghy. I normally leave these lines attached to the dinghy and just drop them into it after untying when we launch the dinghy. So after hoisting, it's a relatively quick process to grab each of the 5 lines, route it appropriately, pull it good and tight, and tie it off. The lines are triangulated to minimize movement, and one of the lines runs down to the stbd stern cleat to prevent the dinghy from moving upward (one of the bow lines also angles downward slightly for this purpose).

A simpler process would be nice if I can come up with one, but realistically, what we have works pretty well, as the dinghy is rock solid in any seas we've encountered with it back there.

 

[Dougcole]

Unfortunately, I don't have an easy answer, but I do have a tip.

Ratchet Straps are your friend. Run one from the internal bow lifting eye to the base of the big boat's stb side davit. Run the other from the outside (furthest aft, port side of the tender) lifting eye to the base of the big boat's port side davit. Tourque them super tight. Much more effective than lines, no stretch and you can put way more pressure on them.

You could also use one or two straps to apply downward pressure from the bow eye to a cleat or eye mounted on the swim step. Same for the stern of the tender.

I'd be concerned about the unprotected tube of the tender rubbing against the davit, that seems like a disaster in the making to me.

I had lifting davits on our old boat, the current boat has beefed up trick davits (similar to hurley) which I much prefer. But we have a big swim platform and I use a double four way block with a cam cleat on it pull the stern of the tender onto the davits. The top of the "lifting line attaches to the base of a stanchion on the FB aft deck. We can load our highfield 340 with a 20 hp electric start in about 5 minutes. Launching takes half that time. I use criss crossing straps to secure it, as described above. It works great.

Doug

 

[dhays]

My first thought is that your biggest issue in the stern is where the lifting eyes are located on the transom of the dinghy. I would place two new lifting eyes down as low and as outboard as you can on the transom. Then the lifting chain won't have to bend over the back of the transom and you should then have the necessary clearance to lift the dinghy high enough so that the tubes will contact those pads on the davits.

In the bow, it looks like that chain is just too long. Frankly, I wouldn't use the chain at all. I'd splice some dynema line to use to hold your block and use a SS carabiner on the boat end to attach it. The same with the stern, I much prefer dyneema than chain, lighter, quieter, and not abrasive.

Regardless, you will still need at least two lines to criss cross to keep the dinghy from moving too much. Ratchet straps there would be great (as long as you get some quality SS hardware).

 

[BruceK]

We created a lifting harness using a well made US made single arm crane davit (the Junior model, brand name escapes me) just to get it on/off the aft FB. Never considered chain, I used 3 strand line. A lot of time went into adjusting the length of the straps to achieve balance, I brought them all to a centered single ss ring which attached to the crane line, it was textile too. Seems to me chain could move in multiple ways, unevenly.
I wonder if a line with some give/recovery, like shock cord, might help. I agree that once raised the dinghy needs secure bracing, and that could strain attachment securing points. Maybe 2 broad straps, textile or even sheepskin, over each end, secured below, could give better less abrasive restraint control than rope lines of 10mm or so.
Whatever you try, do each one at a time so you see which (if any) helps.

 

[Comodave]

We had a SeaWise davit system on a previous boat. Absolutely loved it. It is similar to Weaver but on steroids. You don’t have to remove the outboard and we could literally launch it in a minute and recover it in a couple of minutes. It isn’t cheap but quality usually isn’t. Check them out.

 

[NWboater2]

On some boats the transom/swim step is the only practical place to stow the tender. I have chartered boats with the seawise system and it is slick. You can still use part of the swim step and it’s fast and easy to use. The structure does take some space in the tender.

On your existing davit I agree that your chains are too long (and they don’t have to be chains) but your ability to lift the tender higher (toward the pads) is hindered by both the tender attachment point (top of transom instead of bottom) and the severe angle from the tender connections (7 or8 feet apart?) to the davit arms ( 4 or 5?), which just gets worse the higher you go.
If possible your attachment points on the tender should be low, and directly below the davit arms so you can pull it as high as you like. Could you move the connection points (eyes) on the tender? Need to be strong, obvi. Good luck!

 

[boomerang]

Thank you all for the replies & suggestions. It seems that I'm obliged to secure the dink in some fashion after all. I was confused by the pads on each davit and thought that they might perhaps be there to adequately secure the rig if I was able to pull it up higher. The pads causing abrasion on the tube is something I had not thought about. Long ratchet straps are an idea I hadn't considered, either. I 'm hoping I'll be able to find them with stainless hardware instead of steel.
Regarding the chain I'm using, using shackles initially made it so much easier to tweak the setup in small increments one link at a time. In the bow, until there was tension on both davits, the block and line wanted to chaif against the tube material so the chain got the block up above the tubes. On the transom something other than chain would be better but again, it was so easy to make minute adjustments for the initial pickup. The amount of chain used on the transom is the minimal length I need to clear the motor; any shorter so as to be able to lift the dink higher and it pinches on the motor. Also as suggested , I suppose I'll have to mount 2 more lifting eyes down low and far apart on the transom to be able to achieve more lifting height but I wanted to be sure that I was in fact using the correct basic method of lifting it and that I knew all of my options before making any modifications and drilling more holes in the RIB transom.

 

[psneeld]

Shawn....Hapy Holidays! My davit systems were an attempt to blend 2 different systems to eliminate the weaknesses of each.

My first prototype (in the picture was the best system I ever used. Unfortunately the prototype didn't survive until you bought the boat as some of it was undersized for really rough conditions. The tiny amount of swing was enough to keep breaking a couple of the welds.

To help with transom interference....I think I turned those lifting eyes on the transom around so the ring was on the inside. Worked for me.

So .....system 2 that you encountered was to eliminate swing my setting the RIB nestled in the Hurley davit (nor really similar to the Seawise type systems). Yeah, it was kind of a bear to use but was still effective for me except I learned that the RIB would still slide out of the Hurley without crisscrossed rachet straps. The rachets I had are still without rust and have served on other boats since. So now my problem was still struggling with tying the dang dingy so it remained stationary.

For your current system, I can't see it all well enough, and without playing with it.... my early stab would be to find a way to pull the inner tube up against the pads on the davit arms. I would then attach wear material to both the pads on the arms and the top of the tube. It would be finished off with some sort of mechanical attachment or lashing to keep all in place. There are mechanisms for boat trailers and similar to those brackets that some tip up davit systems use that snap the boat to the swim platform. A simplistic example would be a car's hatchback securing mechanism. The ring on you chassis would be a ring/pad glued to your RIB tube and a catch mechanism on the bottom of the davit pad. When the dink is raised, it snaps securely to the davit arm.

After a quick hands on evaluation..... I might say all the above I wrote is utter nonsense... but most of us know that things not literally bolted down in a seaway eventually turn to sh*t.

If you are headed far enough south, I would be glad to help after getting eyes/hands on. My houry rate is the same as before.

 

[ranger58sb]

Long ratchet straps are an idea I hadn't considered, either. I 'm hoping I'll be able to find them with stainless hardware instead of steel.

You might try customtiedowns.com

-Chris

 

[slowgoesit]

I agree, the attachment points on the transom are too high. Not sure you can do anything there without installing eyebolts through the transom down low.
Also, the chains are too long on both ends, which prevents the block and tackle drawing the dinghy up high enough. The chain is fine for figuring out how long the legs need to be, but once you figure that out, personally, I'd get some vinyl coated SS cable, and make legs with loop ends at each end using crimped swages. Then use carabiners where it attaches to the dinghy. (figure the length of the beaner into the total needed length of the leg, or you'll be too long again).
Once you do this, you SHOULD be able to bring the dinghy up high enough to bring the air chamber into contact with the curved rest on the davit. HOWEVER, you will still need to snug in the bow (we use the painter tie down ring), and the stern using the down low eyebolts through bolted through the transom with ratchet straps. Hope this makes sense.

 

[psneeld]

Here is where I think I got my SS rachet straps.

Stainless Steel Ratchet Straps

Stainless steel ratchet straps are ideal for outdoor use - corrosion-resistant stainless steel hardware and water-resistant polyester webbing.

www.uscargocontrol.com

Plus it was easy to turn the tow rings to the inside, seemed to work fine with both my bridle and lift setups. Not sure why moving them down would make a huge difference. With those big winches on the davits, I might get rid of the lift blocks attached to the dinghy to get a higher lift.

 

[rslifkin]

Lifting the dinghy high enough to contact the davit arms at the top definitely helps to stabilize things, but it's not always practical, especially at the stern when lifting with an outboard mounted.

In our case, the davits are tall enough that the desirable height to lift the dinghy to is at least a foot below maximum lift, so we don't get that benefit. In our case, that's mostly because of a difference in how I expected to mount the davits when I spec-ed their height vs how I ended up mounting them once I had all of the stuff in front of me.

 

[SIBERNUT]

1) no one has mentioned. " Weaver Leaver" dealing with outboards
2) coated SS cables are plentiful at sailboat marinas, broken/scrapped etc.

 

[SteveK]

I would reverse the transom eyes and shorten fore and aft chains as much as you can for the starting point. With the transom eyes inside and tiller arm folded up you should need a lot less chain allowing a higher lift.

 

[Datenight]

Here is where I think I got my SS rachet straps.

Stainless Steel Ratchet Straps

Stainless steel ratchet straps are ideal for outdoor use - corrosion-resistant stainless steel hardware and water-resistant polyester webbing.

www.uscargocontrol.com

Plus it was easy to turn the tow rings to the inside, seemed to work fine with both my bridle and lift setups. Not sure why moving them down would make a huge difference. With those big winches on the davits, I might get rid of the lift blocks attached to the dinghy to get a higher lift.

Shawn
I got my ratchet from the same vendor as Scott. Four years and no rust so I guess they are good stainless.

Rob

 

[Bmarler]

I might consider using a spreader bar at the stern, and put the lift points inside the hull.a spreader bar might make a difference as you don’t have a pinch point where the chains are coming together, but instead have more of a straight down run to the pad eyes. You could mock it up out of wood to see if it would clear the outboard better. Then fab it up out of aluminum or stainless.

 

[Shrew]

1) I doubt chains are necessary. I would bet a lifting strap would be fine.

2) The chains simply look too long.

I'd replace the chain with 2 shorter straps. Connect each strap to the lifting hook,

 

[firehoser75]

Boomerang,
First off, Merry Christmas!
As far as I know, with all (or at least most davits) the dinghy will need to be well secured in place to avoid swinging, rubbing, and other sources of damage. With your davit, the inner tube of the dinghy (closest to the main boat) is best pulled up and into the "elbow" of the davit arm, with the dinghy then secured in that position. The dinghy would also best be secured to eliminate side to side swinging (referencing the main boat, or fore and aft swinging if referencing the dinghy). With padding placed between the dinghy tube and the davit arms to avoid/reduce chafe. I agree with the others, it is a trial and error procedure, lower lifting point in the dinghy are more desirable than those "higher up", and ratchet straps are a must unless you are some kind of "mountaineer" knot tier. The less possible movement of the dinghy once secured in the davit, the better.
I also agree with Comodave regarding how good the Seawise system is, but even then, some extra securing of the dinghy to eliminate any movement is best. For me, that consisted of adding one ratchet strap (from the upper tube to the main boat rail). I do have experience with your type of davit system (on my former sailboat), and it required (referencing the dinghy) fore and aft straps (to stop swinging fore and aft), as well as a rope to hold the dinghy up in the davit's elbow, and fore and aft straps (bow and stern) to hold the dinghy securely. With the sailboat heeled over the dinghy did not move at all when properly secured.
Hope that helps at least a bit,
Tom

 

[Bmarler]

One more thought, probably already looked at, does turning the outboard fully to the side make more clearance for the lift bridle and reduce the pinch point?

 

[richardshulman]

OK TF members, please be slightly compassionate and don't prove me to be a total dumbass right away ,being so close to Christmas and all ,but I'm looking for advise regarding how I'm supposed to lift our RIB. One of the things that I thought I liked about our boat when we bought it last spring was the Edson dinghy davits that the PO had installed on the transom. Though there wasn't a boat on it, I was informed that a West Marine 310 RIB had been used as a tender. I thought that would be perfect because we has that model on our last boat and were happy with the performance.
Last summer we bought a 310 RIB and also bought some stainless chain and shackles to make a 3-point lifting bridle.
Admittedly, my only experience with tenders was a small fiberglass dink on the back of our Mainship using Weaver dinghy-davit hook things which required removing the motor each time ; not a big deal because it was a little honda ,plus, once the dink was clipped onto the davit loops on the swim platform, the whole thing was super stable and the motor was easily installed & removed. On our last boat, an Albin, the PO installed Hurley davits which, while professionally installed, I hated (sorry Scott. It was nothing you did wrong but that setup was a SOB to load the 200+ lb RIB onto). It seemed to me that system would work better on a cockpit boat with a swim platform that was a little closer to the water rather than a double cabin trawler with a high transom and no room to maneuver on the narrow platform. If it wasn't for the mast and gaff rig on the Albin that was used to more or less pick up the rib and set it on the davits rather than sliding the RIB up onto them, I never would have made the Hurley things work.
Which is why I was excited to try these for-real lifting davits and not have to worry about motor removal like the Weaver system or man-handling the tender onto Hurley slide davits. Which brings me to the point of my post and my begging for help.
I've attached pictures of the dinghy on the Edson davits as it is now. If the boat was never in rough water , there wouldn't be an issue but with any motion, the RIB starts swinging wildly like a giant rubber pendulum. So, when we travel, I have to attach lines criss crossing every which way in an awkward attempt to stabilize it in any kind of seas.
I've ,without success, perused the docks looking at others lifting systems and also the internet for perhaps a picture or accessory to make our setup better. I'm hoping the answer to my predicament is held here in the wisdom of TF members.
The pictures clearly show swiveling pads designed to capture the inboard tube of the RIB but there's no way motor end of the RIB will come high enough to touch the pads with the bridal chain used (and needed) to lift the thing. Maybe a lifting bar that attaches to the inside of the fiberglass portion of the rib? It seems I've heard of something like this but can't find one online. Do I need to get something custom made or am I lifting the thing incorrectly?
I take it back. You don't have to be kind to me and I'll acknowledge I'm a dumbass if someone can just help me with my dinghy delima!

Take a look at our Davits. thedinghybutler.com

 

[omoore]

I have davits on my GB42 and don't have a swinging problem. From the pictures I believe the chain length is the problem. You can hoist it high enough. I have block and tackle rigged on each davit. A length of rope between the two attachment points on the transom is with an eye in the middle does not extend above the tubes. The bow is hoisted slightly higher than the stern so water can drain. I can host my RIB up to the blocks. One stern line to the davit ensures no movement.

 

[Denis Glennon]

Hi Guru,
I have been down this path; see photo attached.
Do not hesitate to come back with any questions via PM.
Denis

 

[HeadedToTexas]

In addition to the security underway and ease of launch and retrieval, my favorite part of our Dinghy Butler is that it keeps the swim platform usable for water and dock access while also keeping the dinghy out of sight lines from either deck. It's been great.

 

[boomerang]

Thanks all ,for the replies and helpful advice. Last time we were on the boat ,while the weather was nice, we launched the dink and used it to check out the area. When we were done, I revisited how I was picking the thing up. The chain length on the transom is mandatory and cant be shortened at all so as to clear the motor (I will reverse the lifting eyes to the inside of the transom to help with the lifting angle a little and also stop the chafing of the stainless carabiners on the outside of the transom). The one on the bow could be shortened by a few links but from what I can tell, the biggest problem I have is the damn davits are just too close together. With the lifting points at the boat being around 7-8' apart and the davits being 5-6' apart he closer the boat gets to the davits, the more the blocks start pulling horizontally and less vertically. I removed the motor and was able to shorten up the transom chain substantially, which made a big difference. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll need to always secure it with at least 2 fore & aft lines as recommended in the previous posts (I need to get those stainless straps ordered). It seems to me, without either moving the davits farther apart (probably ain't happening) or getting a spreader bar built (that seems it would be awkward and defeat the ease of lifting with the davits which I do enjoy), the best thing I can do is lift the boat with the motor removed. Since the 9.8 hp 4-stroke 2-cylinder is just a bit too cumbersome to be removing while the dink is in the water, I brought it home to sell and we're going to buy a lighter single-cylinder 6 hp that'll be easier to maneuver on & off without the fear of dropping it overboard. I'm really hoping a 6 will plane a RIB310 dink with 2 onboard so if anyone has any input there, I'd appreciate it.

 

[SteveK]

One more idea. I have a single point ring which is nearest the stern so the dink is level, weight centered.
You have dual davits. How about a horizontal connection with rope or cable of the current chains which will keep the connection points down low?

 

[rslifkin]

I'm really hoping a 6 will plane a RIB310 dink with 2 onboard so if anyone has any input there, I'd appreciate it.

The aluminum skiff shown in our pictures does plane with a 6hp. It's a Nissan / Tohatsu 6hp with a 7 pitch prop on it (stock pitch is 8). With oars, anchor, outboard, fuel, etc. the dinghy is about 250 lbs. It's slightly underpropped with ~200 lbs of load beyond that (runs into the rev limiter at around 12 kts, it'll do 13 with the 8 pitch prop and that load). With ~450 lbs of people, dog, and stuff it just barely gets onto a clean plane at about 9 - 9.5 kts. With a ~350 lb load it'll do ~10.5 kts and still planes nicely.

Depending on the hull shape of your RIB and the weight involved it may plane or it may struggle to get over the hump when loaded.

As far as a lifting bridle goes, I've been looking at the setup that C-level sells. Clips to the dinghy lift points and has a strap between 2 rings with all of the legs being adjustable so you can match it up to the dinghy and the davits. You can see in our pictures that the dinghy lift points are a little further apart than the davits (so we have the same angle problem you do). I think it's about 11 ft vs 10 ft in our case. I expect I'll end up unclipping the lift bridle from the dingy and just leaving it attached to the davit blocks when we launch the dinghy (currently I leave the V bridle at the aft end of the dinghy in the dinghy and just unclip the davit line from it).

 

[Shrew]

Hi Guru,
I have been down this path; see photo attached.
Do not hesitate to come back with any questions via PM.
Denis

The entire point of a forum is public discourse. PM's are helpful for Private discussions, but please embrace the idea of group discussion and avoid drawing public discussion into your private conversation. That goes against the spirit of a forum.

 

[boomerang]

One more idea. I have a single point ring which is nearest the stern so the dink is level, weight centered.
You have dual davits. How about a horizontal connection with rope or cable of the current chains which will keep the connection points down low?

Steve, I'm open to suggestions but I'm having a hard time visualizing your concept. Do you mean fabricate a lifting bar except out of chain, pulled tight and down low in the dink and then attach the lifting blocks from the davit to points on the chain that are more directly under the davits?

 

[boomerang]

The aluminum skiff shown in our pictures does plane with a 6hp. It's a Nissan / Tohatsu 6hp with a 7 pitch prop on it (stock pitch is 8). With oars, anchor, outboard, fuel, etc. the dinghy is about 250 lbs. It's slightly underpropped with ~200 lbs of load beyond that (runs into the rev limiter at around 12 kts, it'll do 13 with the 8 pitch prop and that load). With ~450 lbs of people, dog, and stuff it just barely gets onto a clean plane at about 9 - 9.5 kts. With a ~350 lb load it'll do ~10.5 kts and still planes nicely.

Depending on the hull shape of your RIB and the weight involved it may plane or it may struggle to get over the hump when loaded.

As far as a lifting bridle goes, I've been looking at the setup that C-level sells. Clips to the dinghy lift points and has a strap between 2 rings with all of the legs being adjustable so you can match it up to the dinghy and the davits. You can see in our pictures that the dinghy lift points are a little further apart than the davits (so we have the same angle problem you do). I think it's about 11 ft vs 10 ft in our case. I expect I'll end up unclipping the lift bridle from the dingy and just leaving it attached to the davit blocks when we launch the dinghy (currently I leave the V bridle at the aft end of the dinghy in the dinghy and just unclip the davit line from it).

I appreciate the input on the 6 hp. It sounds like we might be ok. I'm going to look up that C-level contraption now.