Our experience trying to view Diesel Duck "Zeta: with Seattle Yachts

[dannc]

This may be heresy, but my hunch is the Diesel Duck appeals to newbie-types who dream of crossing oceans but can't afford a Nordhavn/Selene/Whatever. They don't really think through the 99% of the time spent cruising that isn't crossing an ocean. So they end up with a 1% boat (in fairness, Nordhavn's marketing isn't far behind the 1% appeal).

No doubt a DD is capable of crossing an ocean but it strikes me as severely compromised for doing much else. Not a great boat for nice water. And it's far down on my list of boats I'd want to sit at anchor (or marina) in low latitudes. Or skinny water. Or where there are air draft concerns. But if I only had $300k and wanted a Perfect Storm boat for some bizarre reason, a DD is high on my list as long as I could sell it easily as soon as I finished the Perfect Storm.

Peter

Fair points about the water and air draft. If we had bought a Diesel Duck when we first looked at them a decade ago, I think we would have been happy with the boat, but wishing for less water and air draft. Having said that, we have also looked at sail boats, so air and water draft is bigger problem with sailboats than a DD. For us, the boat is simply a tool to take us to places, and as we looked at where we wanted to go, prioritized the list, having a low air and water draft became more important. Flip side, if we had bought the DD, we would have been in areas where air draft really does not mater and water draft is not as important.

We liked the interior layout on the Seahorse built boats. My impression from reading George's books, studying his plans and talking to him, is that he liked to design the boat but not the interior. I really did not like Georges interior designs but I think many interior designs, boat or home, are lacking. My understanding/memory is that Bill Kimley at Seahorse had the idea of the rear cockpit and passage galley. The cockpit addition was a good for when the boat was on the move and at anchor. The older plans with just a flat aft deck were odd to say the least.

All boats are a compromise and the boat we are really interested, after much thought, talking to boat builders, viewing boats, studying plans, etc, is very much a compromise and not for everyone.

 

[dannc]

Always had a big dislike for those tombstone shaped windows that are in some DD's like this one. Not sure why anyone thought that was good looking.

George the boat designer liked the window shape. I, like you do not. Not sure why I don't like the shape, but I don't.

 

[Mac2]

I sold Zeta from her 1st owner to this current owner. If you want historical information on this vessel, send me a pm.

Can you comment (quality) on the DDs built in Turkey vs the ones built by Seahorse/China? Seems to me that the DDs built in Turkey have always had rust issues.

 

[Mako]

@Mac2 I visited AsBoat in Izmir about building a 50’ DD years ago. Probably 2017 or 2018. They had at least 4 DD’s under construction at the time. I was not impressed by the steelwork or insulation, and walked because of it. Their carpentry was beautiful though.

Can’t comment on Stella’s boats in China, but some members here own them.

 

[Patemey]

Speculating here, but the pre-conversations the Broker had with the OP may have let the broker realize it was a dead end and wasn't going to be a sale. So maybe a scaled back effort? Knowing the OP was coming from quite a distance, a better more frank conversation by the broker about the condition may have been warranted.

This happened to me - wanted to see a boat 1000 miles away. The Broker was honest as to the true condition that didn't show in the photos. Essentially an eyes-wide-open conversation. We opted to not go see it.

Brokers do have a fine line to walk in being a representative for the seller and being honest to prospective buyers.

 

[sean9c]

Took a look at the pics in the Zeta listing. In the interior shots it sure struck me that there was a lot of floor space. Furniture round the edges and just a lot of floor. Other than stand there you can't do much with floor other than fall across it to the other side. Seems an odd layout because of that.
Did a driveby, exterior paint is all chalky, guessing it's some sort of epoxy ship paint that does that over time. I'd be setting a fair chunk of $$ aside for maintenance.

 

[Foggy]

What I meant was...the

I'm going to push back on the prevailing sentiment here.

Based on one interaction the OP has thrown the broker under the bus. I don't know her and am not a buyer of any kind, but from the OPs half of the story she tried to make it right. The OP wanted her to leave the boat show and take him to a boatyard. And when she managed to correct the mistake, he was 100 miles away (an hour and half?) and wouldn't/couldn't return. His prerogative of course but I cannot imagine a serious buyer would be that narrow. Stuff happens.

As far as the pictures of the bottom - boats in the yard. Would be irresponsible to have it painted while it's stored as many bottom paints cannot dry out for long. As a matter of fact, the new bottom picture is a good negotiation point.

The broker may be a total dunce and the seller an absolute jerk. And the boat may be garbage too. No one knows on the basis of one interaction. I just think it's over the line to make these accusations based on one interaction of an interested buyer who was was probably perceived as overly impatient and therefore a lookie-loo (perception is reality).

I'm sorry the OP didn't get to see the boat. I'm guessing the broker felt bad too. But in my opinion, this thread is way too speculative based on that limited interaction.

Peter

Just to clarify - We NEVER asked to broker to leave the boat show. We actually arrived Thursday, she gave us an appointment for Friday at 7pm (after the show) and then she had to cancel that, and her only other time was Saturday at 8:30am...The boat show started at 10am and ended at 6pm and she had to be at the show. I get it. When she let us know late Saturday that she finally had the key for the boatyard, we were on I-5 in a 38' diesel pusher motorhome stuck in Seattle traffic. It was 15mph headed our direction, and about 0mph headed back north to Anacortes, and we would have had no option to turn around. If you know Seattle, you kind of have to be careful what exit to take to get turned around in a bigger rig.

Again, there is nothing about this thread that is a complaint directed at the broker. Again, it is just a "What Happened" story. Read the first lines of my post.

I never have tried to "throw the broker under the bus". The problem is there was no system in place for the broker to gain access to the boatyard at the appointed time. It would have been good if she had double checked ahead of time...yes...but it just worked out the way it did.

If we had this appointment firmed up a week or month in advance would maybe have made no difference. Who knows?

My suggestion to the company owner was to just make sure there is a system in place so that it doesn't happen to someone else. The owner agreed that it's something that should be fixed.

I have no idea if the company will actually get a new procedure in place to allow brokers into the yard where the their brokerage inventory is - but one can only hope.

 

[Foggy]

View attachment 164941
They showed a rudder pic in the listing.

I can make any boat look like that an hour after bottom paint goes on. This picture above is from a very old photo set of Zeta that's been floating around. and we notice the listing photos for Zeta are changing last few weeks..

This photo above certainly was taken before the lower rudder post bearing / skeg had corroded away, as we see in my current photo. If anyone else wants to double check me, Zeta is across the street from Bananbelt Boats. At least that's where she was last Saturday.

This type of photo is 100% useless to a buyer...what is much more useful is the photo showing the boat hull as it's hauled out, and then a photo of the hull JUST BEFORE the bottom paint goes on. On a steel hull. I want to see how the hull was prepped before the anti-foul goes on, because I want to see: Was the rust just knocked off & faired over with some compund - Or was the hull properly prepped by stripping a problem area down to bare metal and then getting the proper coating system applied (usually two part epoxy anti-rust system on steel)...THEN the anti-foul added.

 

[mvweebles]

What I meant was...the

Just to clarify - We NEVER asked to broker to leave the boat show. We actually arrived Thursday, she gave us an appointment for Friday at 7pm (after the show) and then she had to cancel that, and her only other time was Saturday at 8:30am...The boat show started at 10am and ended at 6pm and she had to be at the show. I get it. When she let us know late Saturday that she finally had the key for the boatyard, we were on I-5 in a 38' diesel pusher motorhome stuck in Seattle traffic. It was 15mph headed our direction, and about 0mph headed back north to Anacortes, and we would have had no option to turn around. If you know Seattle, you kind of have to be careful what exit to take to get turned around in a bigger rig.

Again, there is nothing about this thread that is a complaint directed at the broker. Again, it is just a "What Happened" story. Read the first lines of my post.

I never have tried to "throw the broker under the bus". The problem is there was no system in place for the broker to gain access to the boatyard at the appointed time. It would have been good if she had double checked ahead of time...yes...but it just worked out the way it did.

If we had this appointment firmed up a week or month in advance would maybe have made no difference. Who knows?

My suggestion to the company owner was to just make sure there is a system in place so that it doesn't happen to someone else. The owner agreed that it's something that should be fixed.

I have no idea if the company will actually get a new procedure in place to allow brokers into the yard where the their brokerage inventory is - but one can only hope.

I'll let readers decide whether this was a complaint about the broker and procedures. To my eyes, your intent was to warn people off Zeta and the local broker based on the view through a chain link fence.

But I think you also said part of the impetus was to decide whether you should build a boat or if a suitable alternative was available. If you found this dance frustrating, well, having a boat built is a never ending series of missed expectations.

All kidding aside, best of luck.

Peter

 

[Foggy]

Peter - My only intention was to let the crowd know what happened in MY CASE - and if you are going to Anacortes to see a boat on the hard, it might be a good idea to plan on some extra days in the schedule.

I don't know if the broker is good or bad to deal with financially, but I know the boat is not represented as she is in the photos and descriptions from what little I've seen. Anyone can go see for themselves -please don't take my word for it.

I also know that if anyone IS interested in Zeta, they should fist have a chat with Judy here on the forum - I'll leave it at that.

I'm done.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[BruceK]

Maybe the broker knew the boat well, understood its salability, and the amount of effort showing it was proportionate.
Hope you find the right boat soon.

 

[mvweebles]

@Foggy - I would not have pushed back had your guidance been more general. Trying to view a boat thats not in the water adds complexity. Folks in cold climates deal with this all the time because it's customary to shrink wrap a boat - tough to view it, who pays to open it up, etc.

As far as stating the boat is not as represented from a distant view, well, that's a bit unfair. Had you not named the boat and instead told a general story, i wouldnt say a word. Happens all the time. Boats, cars, dating, everything.

At any rate, we got off on the wrong foot. We see the same thing differently - that's okay. Welcome aboard and I look forward to following along with your journey

Peter

 

[Foggy]

Well - thanks for the welcome anyway.

The way I see it: This is a public forum, the boat listing is a public advertised listing, the boat is visible to the public with public signage, and there are hundreds of photos of Zeta on the 'net - old and new. She is listed at probably over a hundred brokerage sites. There is no secret there.

I volunteered my experience of what happened so that others might plan a viewing trip accordingly. Anyone is free to draw any conclusion. DO NOT base any opinion of the boat until you see her in person - completely. At least you know what to expect when you see her thru the fence for the first time. That's all I got to see.. but still that told me something about Zeta.

You notice I did not once ever mention any broker's name in this thread. It was not necessary.

Zeta may be many things, but from what little I saw the words "well maintained" in her sales literature don't come to mind. That's fair. And we know at least some of her sales photos are not showing true current condition. That's fair. And we know she has a history of a less than stellar survey experience. That's fair.

Judy at JWY has even more information that would be very helpful to interested parties. But that would be best done with direct contact with her - not on a public post.

Besides - Everybody learns so much more when the boat name is mentioned. That's more than fair !!

Over 'n Out.

PS - If I did something wrong, I'll disappear, I promise - and admins please feel free to remove this thread if its a violation of the rules.

 

[long-cours.62]

You could also had exactly the contrary "adventure" .
A "potential" customer contact us for visit the boat we clearly said to him DON'T COME the WE because the boatyard where we was on hard stand is lying in a very secure aera ( gate, armed guard and Strick policy to enter this sensible zone....
And at the last moment the "customer" decide to change the date and come a ...Saturday.
We must made a special authorisation for us our car to be able to escort them to our boat ...and in few minute it was clear they was not buyer only "W.E. curious visitor"...

 

[Foggy]

Not sure where that fantasy came from - our appointment was at the broker's schedule, and she had to change that too, to make it on a Saturday instead of Friday - that appointment schedule was all totally up to the broker, not us. We were NEVER told to "Don't Come" either - we were told to contact the broker as soon as we knew our schedule at Trawlerfest, which we did. And yes we were interested in the boat at the time...certainty not now. Other buyers might still fall in love with Zeta. We don't know anything unless we see the boat for real - we know for sure the pictures aren't accurate in the listing.

Armed guard at that boatyard with "Strick Policy" (whatever that is)? Really?? If you actually knew that boatyard, you know that's absolutely not the case. There wasn't a soul around, and that's exactly why the broker had no way to let us in. There was a keylock box at the gate, but the broker had no way to access that. That's what needs to get fixed with the Seattle Yachts arrangement with the boatyard, and that's what the owner of Seattle Yachts has says they have addressed.

Hopefully it goes smoother for someone else interested in Zeta and wanting to see her in person. That was why I posted our experience: so any other interested party can allow maybe some extra days in the schedule if needed.

I fully admit - my biggest mistake was not asking about Zeta at this forum beforehand ! But this thread tunred a sort of a bummer lemon day into true lemonade with good information!

Again, if this thread is causing this much angst for the members here, then admins PLEASE delete the thread. And please, delete my account too. If this thread is seen as a "problem", then I know I won't be a good fit here. That's all OK and good to know.

Otherwise let's just give this one a rest.

 

[long-cours.62]

You miss understand our message we had this "experience" in...Sardaigne it is not in area of Seattle at all.

 

[Foggy]

Oh - sorry!! - apologies. I missed that part, so joke's on me. I was going..."Their isn't any armed guard at the boatyard...what is this guy talking about?"" <Laughing>

I thought you were talking about me. I see it is a similar experience.

But I promise you , in our case our tour was all arranged on the broker's schedule. She eventually did find the key but we already had to leave town, and no way to turn back. If there WAS a way to go back for an appointment the next day, we would have, but it didn't work out.

Oh well.

I'm slow, but I get there eventually. My brain was on trawler speed I guess !!!

I'll take my coat and show myself out now...

 

[PNK]

I had a similar experience several years ago at a Trawlerfest, but in Baltimore. There was a boat that was going to be there that I was really interested in, the owner agreed with the broker to bring it there to increase viewings, I guess. Two days before the show I called the broker, who confirmed that the boat would be there, so I drove down from NYC, got the show the first day and, as you can all guess, no boat. The broker's excuse was "the owner said something came up."
Just to look at it from the other side, though, I managed a large multi-national sales force for a long time, and I can't tell you how many times one of my reps set up a demo or a showing, and then the customer just didn't show up.
It happens on both sides of the sale, unfortunately, but when someone doesn't respect your time it is pretty upsetting, as Foggy explained so well.
Peter

 

[Cantsitstill]

I have a saying: “Salespeople are all the same person in a different body.” I wish I were surprised by your experience, but unfortunately, it only reinforces my already low opinion of salespeople in general. This person clearly didn’t respect your time.

I had a poor experience with brokers several years ago when I bought my KK Manatee, which is why I ended up purchasing from a private party without a broker. My decision was driven by previous encounters with lies, exaggerations, and a general lack of respect.

I hope you find the right boat for you.

 

[Ric]

While there's a bunch of folks who seem to be open to sharing opinions, here's a tangentially related question. We have a Canadian-built, US Documented DD44, that we bought unfinished in Quebec City and completed in Sidney BC in 2009-2010. It was imported into the US initially and then GST/PST paid to make her legal for staying in Canada. We cruised those waters until 2019, when we shipped the boat to New Zealand and imported her there. She's designed for expedition work, 1/4" steel, 33 tons, 15mm safety glass around the helm. The boat can stay in NZ and cruise around it, head to the tropical islands, or get shipped to the NW -- it can stay in NZ, the US, or Canada indefinitely with no hassles. My wife has suddenly developed Alzheimer's, and we are wondering what to do about the boat. We could keep her in the waters around Auckland, but doing day trips in a boat equipped for expeditions seems like a bit of a waste of the boat's capabilities. My question is whether or not you think there'd be any interest in the boat, given her location, for folks interested in checking out the SW Pacific. The boat is all US power and wiring, but has a 6kW power converter that inputs 240/50 and outputs 120/60.

 

[Ric]

 

[YSDCAPT]

I'm posting this just as a head's up for anyone interesting in this Diesel Duck "Zeta" that is under brokerage with Seattle Yachts. This isn't a rant or complaint, this is just what happened last Saturday morning when I tried to view her.

Here is the boat - supposed to be well maintained and in great condition:

2009 Diesel Duck 41-Plus 46' Yacht For Sale | ZETA | Seattle Yachts

ZETA is a 2009 As Boat Yacht Building (Turkey) 45 41-Plus for sale in Anacortes Washington. With its spacious accommodations, comfortable cruising speed, and extensive range, the Diesel Duck 41-Plus is the perfect vessel for bluewater cruising, liveaboard...

www.seattleyachts.com

Over the years we have owned and sold boats, so we haven't just fallen off the turnip truck. We were interested in viewing Zeta before we embark on our own boat building adventure - just to make sure there wasn't something already on the market that we would fall in love with. We were friends with the Buehler's from long ago, and I know on a personal level why George designed these Diesel Ducks the way he did. He wasn't a university-trained naval architect, but he had a lot of experience in boatyards and as a sailor, and I respected his long experience. These diesel duck designs are well proven performers that are good passagemakers - and will take you anywhere in the world you want to go. Depending on how the boat is built, of course. The original design for Diesel Ducks was intended to be a very strong wood hull, but a lot of owners opted to have their 'Ducks built from steel in Turkey, or at Seahorse Marine in China. Of course you are welcome to buy the plans and build one yourself in whatever hull material you like best. Up to you.

So we made the 6 hr drive up to Trawlerfest last weekend. I wasn't sure what day we would arrive (I don't know my schedule more than a few hours ahead), but I had chatted with the broker on and off a few months prior, and explained our interest. Long story short: Once we got to the boat show I arranged to see Zeta at the boatyard down the road. A few months back the plan was that Zeta would be in the water at Trawlerfest, but when we arrived another broker told us that the owner didn't want to spend the extra money to move the boat into a slip for the show. OK. The owner can do whatever.

The broker explained that she was very very busy at Trawlerfest but we could get that time slot for Saturday morning for private showing. We also got the usual tag line that if we wanted to see Zeta in the water we'd have to put in a contract offer first, or if we wanted to be first in line to see her we'd have to put an offer in first...the usual blah blah blah broker BS. I wasn't worried - I know Zeta has spent most of her life being on market. I don't think she's going anywhere in the next day or so.

My viewing appointment was at 8:30am on Saturday at the boatyard, and I specifically asked if the boatyard would be open for access. Broker said "yes, everything would be opened up by 8:00am Saturday morning".

So on Saturday I walked the mile down to the boatyard, and got there on time (we were at the RV park by the boat show docks area - If you know Anacortes, Zeta was in the yard across the street from the Bananabelt Boats yard...you can see that in the listing photos). The gates to the yard were locked. Why was I not surprised?

The broker got there, and was making phone calls to find out how to get into the boatyard, but that wasn't going anywhere fast on a Saturday morning. Then she suggested we could do Sunday morning, but I didn't have that kind of time in my schedule, so I left. She kept explaining that she was incredibly busy at Trawlerfest, and there wasn't anyone else available to show the boat...and so on. I was down at the docks on Friday during the boat show, and I saw a lot of brokers standing around chatting with each other, or too busy to look up from their cell phone while they sat on a boat...but I don't know. Maybe they were busy selling a boat via a cell phone.

To be fair, the broker did text me back - hours later in the day when we were already a hundred miles away driving towards home, saying she had found the key to the boatyard. But too late for us.

I know things go wrong. I just hope in the future everybody at the brokerage firm knows how to get access to the boat yard.

The attached photos show our viewing of Zeta. The listing broker in San Diego explained that the owners use the boat continuously, and still enjoy the boat, and in no hurry to sell her. I think that's the way of saying "Don't you dare put in an offer below asking price". OK. Good to know. If the owner's aren't interested in selling, then this is a good place for the boat.

I am a professional engineer, and - even though I'm not a licensed marine surveyor - I am capable of looking at the general condition of a boat. Putting a boat up on blocks in uncovered storage has it's own challenges, as you see here. I wasn't able to inspect the hull closely, but from a distance I could what what looked like rust-swelling on the hull that might have been painted over...and the skeg and lower rudder post are certainly going to need some TLC soon. Those zincs don't do much when the boat isn't in saltwater. The underhull coating system will certainly need to be addressed.

We will leave this Diesel Duck for someone else to enjoy!

My head's up here is: If you're going to look at Zeta, have plenty of time in your schedule in case the boatyard is locked up. I did email the owner of Seattle Yachts, and he said he would address the situation.

View attachment 164933


View attachment 164934

View attachment 164935

Sorry you had this difficulty. Thought I would comment, as I was the delivery captain for the boat from San Diego to Anacortes, and me and the crew were happy we were aboard Zeta.

On this particular journey, Zeta encountered weather conditions that would have challenged most boats. With the winds howling and the seas swelling, we decided to divert our course and seek refuge in Grey's Harbor. Navigating the entrance to the harbor proved particularly treacherous, with Zeta pitching hard for the duration of the approach. Yet she held her ground, demonstrating her capability to handle adverse circumstances that would have overwhelmed most vessels.

The crew and I expressed our gratitude for Zeta’s resilience during this trip. Her ability to remain controlled and secure despite the violent pitching ensured the crew's safety and preserved our confidence in the vessel.

What sets Zeta apart is not merely her ability to weather storms but the seamless way she performs under pressure. This journey reinforced her reputation as a reliable choice for demanding conditions. Where other boats might have faltered or required a more prolonged struggle against the elements, Zeta stood firm, allowing us to avoid further unnecessary exposure to the large, relentless seas ahead.

 

[long-cours.62]

Sorry you had this difficulty. Thought I would comment, as I was the delivery captain for the boat from San Diego to Anacortes, and me and the crew were happy we were aboard Zeta.

On this particular journey, Zeta encountered weather conditions that would have challenged most boats. With the winds howling and the seas swelling, we decided to divert our course and seek refuge in Grey's Harbor. Navigating the entrance to the harbor proved particularly treacherous, with Zeta pitching hard for the duration of the approach. Yet she held her ground, demonstrating her capability to handle adverse circumstances that would have overwhelmed most vessels.

The crew and I expressed our gratitude for Zeta’s resilience during this trip. Her ability to remain controlled and secure despite the violent pitching ensured the crew's safety and preserved our confidence in the vessel.

What sets Zeta apart is not merely her ability to weather storms but the seamless way she performs under pressure. This journey reinforced her reputation as a reliable choice for demanding conditions. Where other boats might have faltered or required a more prolonged struggle against the elements, Zeta stood firm, allowing us to avoid further unnecessary exposure to the large, relentless seas ahead.

Few time you wrote "weather conditions that would have challenged most boats.".
Ok but what you put in "most" ? All production boat ? All motor boat ? Trawler ? Passagemaker ?
Because if you include "all production boat it is normal "
If you compare to passagemaker ....I don't see on the DD concept something who is better than most another passagemaker or even classic motor yacht.
The advantage of the DD design it is very easy to built, she is generally heavier than the architect calculation ( Ellemaid was heavier by a lot).
Could you precise wind state and sea state who made "violent pictching"
Because " the winds howling and the seas swelling" sorry but If I refer to my stomach :-( this condition arrive quicker than the real Beauford scale said.
To appreciate we need to know the real weather.
But it is good to know we could have more confidence on the boat than ...a broker

 

[long-cours.62]

Can you comment (quality) on the DDs built in Turkey vs the ones built by Seahorse/China? Seems to me that the DDs built in Turkey have always had rust issues.

I saw the detail of the building of DD made in Turkey when I saw they weld raw ( unpaint no sandblasted) T or L bar on the bulkhead I said : no way because it means this part will never be WELL sandblasted and paint. I saw a fresh delivery DD in Clearwater Bay Marina in 2009 a dark red one The paint job look good BUT I don't take a look in concealed part.

 

[Mako]

@long-cours.62 mon ami, actually I would disagree with "If you compare to passagemaker ....I don't see on the DD concept something who is better than most another passagemaker"

On the basis of a pure, ocean crossing in severe conditions type-boat, I would say that the DD design surpasses Kadey Krogen, Norhavn, etc. It has pretty much all the traits needed for something you would take through the NW Passage. However, there are compromises in the features that someone would want for 99.999% of the rest of the time that they are cruising.

BTW I was in contract to buy Ellemaid in Singapore years ago. Great price. But the more I considered it the more I was turned off by features and design compromises. In the end it was the delivery cost (and lack of free time to sail it back to the States) that killed the deal though.

 

[Night Watch]

Yes, sort of. She knew we were interested, but I couldn't confirm a hard appointment time ahead of time...I had left it at something like "I'm headed there to Trawlerfest, but not sure what day Ill be there" I get what you are saying. On the other hand we DID have a firm appointment setup for Saturday morning, by her request, on Friday. That was her schedule, not mine. As I pointed out in opening line, this thread isn't a complaint, just a "what happened". I know plans go awry, and as I pointed out I don't think she intentionally did anything wrong - but it still would be nice if she had access to the yard. As I pointed out to Seattle Yachts - this is what happened, and it would be good if the brokers always had a way to access the boatyard for a showing. That's all. My advice is to just add plenty of time if someone else is going to look at Zeta - or any other boat that's on the hard.

I agree 100% with you about chatting with brokers - and yes half the time we wished they would go chat OUTSIDE the boat while we looked inside. . ONE EXCEPTION was Justin who showed us around a 2007 American Tug "Salish Nomad" on Friday. Very good broker - listened to questions, answered honestly, kind of stepped back when we wanted to poke around ourselves. We didn't have to interrupt his cell phone time either - we were warmly invited inside right away. VERY nice guy. Justin, if you're reading this: THANK YOU!!

That's one reason why I ended up buying an AT!

 

[long-cours.62]

Hello Mako,
Note I wrote " another passagemaker..." it means real passagermaker not advertised by the builder as passagemaker" :- ( look at the Swift trawler "trawler " is mainly for commercial purpose, and the Trawler part is just on the aspect not n the long range ...for example)
I consider my former boat was a passagemaker LC62 and I saw nothing more on the DD than our LC62..
Polar Bound is a lot of passagemaker... Idelwild prove she was a assagemaker even if very inconfortable one ( can't eat hot in the crossing from SA to Australia they said 60° roll !
For the Ellemaid it means we was at less 3 to want buy her you , us and the final buyer
Even if the arrangements design/ concept was not the more usefull and she was underpowered compared to her real final weight... But my wife make his veto : NO two big boat owner :::
We doing that when we own our LC62 and ...buy back in HK the boat we built in Vietnam i....
When I was younger I had a "dream" to do a circumnavigation non stop .
Joubert propose to us his 20.5x4.2 project and Buehler is long and narrow boat longer than Ellemaid.
For the Ellemaid at her final asking price she was a very interresting boat

 

[long-cours.62]

One things I frequently saw with brokers : they lie near always on the real length of boat.
When we advertised with a "famous" broker 3 time I must ask to him to put the REAL size on his advertising.
Always they put longer.
Now I just take a look at a 41'...Advertised 14 m it means 46'
Just lying by 12%
And if they lie on the length they could also lie on all another things. ( like photo taken with special optic and later pass under a well-known "photo..." to change the colour, more brightness...)

 

[mvweebles]

One things I frequently saw with brokers : they lie near always on the real length of boat.

Shocked!! Men not being honest about length ....

Peter

 

[long-cours.62]

Men I could understand but ...women why they said that also !?