Opinion wanted on an older steel trawler

[Kent33]

Love it but not strictly a working survivor?

She is a U.S. National Historic Landmark and is currently preserved at the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park in San Francisco, California. She was added to the National Register of Historic Places on 7 November 1976

 

[AlaskaProf]

Here's one still at work after 89 years.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Love it but not strictly a working survivor?

She is a U.S. National Historic Landmark and is currently preserved at the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park in San Francisco, California. She was added to the National Register of Historic Places on 7 November 1976

Of course, the Balclutha mostly sits around in a corrosive environment, but they worked her hard for about 50years, "racing" Australian grain around the Horn and then packing fish in Alaska into the 1940s.

 

[Kent33]

My point though is that I could list hundreds if not thousands of centenarian fresh water steel boats all still working today by which time steel salt water boats would be long gone. Horses for courses.

 

[Kent33]

Vianen tug boat festival being a prime example of where to see dozens of them

 

[Srupp9271]

A good read.

I read this article and yes it's excellent. Thank you. I suggest everybody should read that.

 

[Kent33]

Steel is an excellent choice for a passage maker but not for longevity or economical maintenance in salt water environments. As I said before, it’s horses for courses.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Sleepboote! Very cool thanks for the idea. We actually have some experience with a pre-war Telemotor in fresh water.

 

[Kent33]

I have a photo of maybe fifty to one hundred vintage tugs at Sleepboote Vianen in 2017 all packed into the massive lock returning from their cruise. If I find it I’ll post it up here.

 

[sd1209]

Star of India...Made 1863......Saltwater since then, still afloat and sails periodically.....In the water San Diego Bay.....

 

[KnotYet]

Star of India...Made 1863......Saltwater since then, still afloat and sails periodically.....In the water San Diego Bay.....

Iron vessel in this case. Still a few around in various museums. Impressive!

 

[BruceK]

James Craig was built in 1874.

James Craig 1874 Tall Ship - Sydney Heritage Fleet

James Craig, a three masted square rigger, was launched in 1874. She takes passengers to sea for Adventure Cruises and for trips on Sydney Harbour.

shfmember.org.au

Mind you, it`s had an extensive "lick of paint" since.

 

[O C Diver]

Speaking of steel vessels, this one will give you pause when she passes you, if you know her history.

The Arthur Anderson was running with, and behind the Edmund Fitzgerald on the night she sank November 10, 1975 (almost 50 years ago).

The Arthur Anderson is 72 now, still hauling taconite and other bulk materials, and one of the very few ships still powered by steam (steam turbine). I've had her pass me three times in Superior and Huron.

SS Arthur M. Anderson - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Living history.

Ted

 

[KnotYet]

I realize this thread has morphed into a 'who's who' of elderly metal vessels.
While some of them are interesting, none of that addresses the OP's question.
These oldies have survived mostly due to extensive restoration and/or the use of
inches thick ship plate during construction, none of which applies to the original post.

 

[Pascall]

you will be surprised how many steel ships of around 100 years old sail in the Netherlands alone.
and a large proportion of these on salt water.
The historic ( called Bruine vloot) fleet alone consists of more than 400 ships.
And then there are more than 100 historic tugboats in the Netherlands, most of which have spent their lives on salt water in the port of Rotterdam.
A photo showing a small part of the port of Harlingen, home of the brown fleet, Harlingen is a saltwater port.

 

[Pascall]

Now I don't want to deny you these pictures either, an annual event, Dordt under steam.

And a couple of famous saltwater tugs that still regularly sail.
The Furie 1916.
The Holland 1950.
De Elbe 1959.

 

[Kent33]

Of course steel is very different to iron or wrought iron plates which last far longer in saltwater and from which most of these centenarian survivors are constructed.

The Dutch heritage fleet almost all live in freshwater and will be meticulously washed down after any saltwater or brackish cruising.

Rotterdam is historically a freshwater port but has become more prone to tidal saltwater incursion since the construction of the North Sea canal and rising sea levels.

We visited Furie in Maassluis (freshwater) and is well worth a visit.

The Netherlands is a paradise for boats.

 

[JayB]

1886

View attachment 163205

I was topsail crew volunteer on Balcutha in younger days but wasn't near the phone when they called to take her out so missed my chance. Sort of feels like a lost love when I see her. Sigh...

 

[dannc]

Now I don't want to deny you these pictures either, an annual event, Dordt under steam.
....

We were VERY lucky, in that we stayed in Dordrecht last year. We managed to find a place to rent in the city, so that is where we stayed. First day we were walking around and kept seeing posters about Dordt Under Steam. What the heck is that we wondered. Figured it out and we spent a couple of days seeing the boats/ships and steam engines. Soooo Lucky to have been there for the event. We had no idea there was and event like this much less during the time we were visiting. We were really lucky.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I was topsail crew volunteer on Balcutha in younger days

You and Jonathan Winters

 

[AlaskaProf]

While some of them are interesting, none of that addresses the OP's question.
... none of which applies to the original post.

Well, yeah, but I think the OP got what he came for, and this has evolved into a nice conversation among friends.

 

[Pascall]

Of course steel is very different to iron or wrought iron plates which last far longer in saltwater and from which most of these centenarian survivors are constructed.

The Dutch heritage fleet almost all live in freshwater and will be meticulously washed down after any saltwater or brackish cruising.

Rotterdam is historically a freshwater port but has become more prone to tidal saltwater incursion since the construction of the North Sea canal and rising sea levels.

We visited Furie in Maassluis (freshwater) and is well worth a visit.

The Netherlands is a paradise for boats.

What you write is not quite right.
The North Sea Canal is the waterway to Amsterdam and not to Rotterdam.
The Nieuwe waterweg is the (canal) to Rotterdam which was commissioned in 1872.
Since then, the port of rotterdem has had an open connection with the North Sea where salt water flows in and out twice a day with an average tide difference of 3 metres.
Maassluis is definitely not a freshwater port, it is brackish and has an open connection to the Nieuwe waterweg.

 

[Srupp9271]

Not sure what you are referencing on the reputation of Krogen. Keep in mind the Manatee was the first model for Krogen and the hull shape changed with the 42s. My Manatee sold for 20k more than when it was brand new-almost 25 years earlier. Pretty good reputation to me. The whaleback is one of my favorites as well-same hull as the Northsea. IMO the Krogen hull shape is one of the best (in reference to rough seas). Don’t be put off by one bad boat. My bottom blisters were not from water intrusion, but rather from applying a layer of fiberglass over a layer that had not completely dried/gassed off. It could have been any fiberglass boat.

 

[Srupp9271]

What I mean by the reputation. When you look at that video that I referred to it shows a Manatee with the entire gunwale of the boat sanded down to the glass and shows the moister content inside the core.I don't really know how that can happen even if the boat is 50 years old. Well and kadey krogan and nordhaven are on top of the list when it comes to a reputation for good quality. I used to like fiberglass sandwich construction but have changed my mind over the years. I think in the lifetime of any boat that has a fiberglass core construction water will find it's way in somewhere. I have researched all of the trawler boat building manufacturers and it seems like all of them still build decks with balsa core a material I really don't like at all. At least most of them have gone back ti solid fiberglass hulls.

 

[Kent33]

What you write is not quite right.
The North Sea Canal is the waterway to Amsterdam and not to Rotterdam.
The Nieuwe waterweg is the (canal) to Rotterdam which was commissioned in 1872. Since then, the port of rotterdem has had an open connection with the North Sea where salt water flows in and out twice a day with an average tide difference of 3 metres.
Maassluis is definitely not a freshwater port, it is brackish and has an open connection to the Nieuwe waterweg.

My understanding is that more recent widening and deepening of the Nieuwe Waterweg to accommodate ever larger tankers and cruise ships combined with rising sea levels that is increasing the salinity at Rotterdam and indeed further upstream causing major problems for agriculture which was not the case historically.

I’m also happy to be corrected but in my defense I knew it was Nieuwe Waterweg but for some reason North Sea Canal came into my head as the English name which is so obviously wrong!

I truly did believe the inland basins and canal at Maassluis were on the freshwater side of a sea lock where Furie’s home mooring was last time visited her as opposed to the smaller port area on the tidal brackish side of the sea lock which is directly accessible from the Nieuwe Waterweg. Last time we were there In 2017 there was major construction on and below the railway bridges crossing the canal with enormous pontoons below and surrounding fences. I wrongly assumed this was work on a sea lock that having just now checked google earth clearly doesn’t exist!

I’ll now grab my hat and quietly leave

 

[AlaskaProf]

.I was topsail crew volunteer on Balcutha in younger days but wasn't near the phone when they called to take her out so missed my chance. Sort of feels like a lost love when I see her. Sigh...

I suspect my younger days are long before your younger days, but before the Park Service created the wonderful Hyde Street Pier, Balclutha was farther along the Embarcadero (Pier 35?) and could be toured for a small fee. I'm certain I wasn't the first high school student to climb surreptitiously to the maintop...as I recall, she had no topmasts at the time.
--Tamalpais HS, class of '61

 

[Mac2]

What I mean by the reputation. When you look at that video that I referred to it shows a Manatee with the entire gunwale of the boat sanded down to the glass and shows the moister content inside the core.I don't really know how that can happen even if the boat is 50 years old. Well and kadey krogan and nordhaven are on top of the list when it comes to a reputation for good quality. I used to like fiberglass sandwich construction but have changed my mind over the years. I think in the lifetime of any boat that has a fiberglass core construction water will find it's way in somewhere. I have researched all of the trawler boat building manufacturers and it seems like all of them still build decks with balsa core a material I really don't like at all. At least most of them have gone back ti solid fiberglass hulls.

Just watched that video. Very strange location for blistering/wet core. The manatee uses pvc coring, which is impervious to water. You are correct in that water has the potential to makes its way through any screw hole, window frame etc. Steel does have an early warning system-orange marks the rust spots.

 

[Pascall]

My understanding is that more recent widening and deepening of the Nieuwe Waterweg to accommodate ever larger tankers and cruise ships combined with rising sea levels that is increasing the salinity at Rotterdam and indeed further upstream causing major problems for agriculture which was not the case historically.

I’m also happy to be corrected but in my defense I knew it was Nieuwe Waterweg but for some reason North Sea Canal came into my head as the English name which is so obviously wrong!

I truly did believe the inland basins and canal at Maassluis were on the freshwater side of a sea lock where Furie’s home mooring was last time visited her as opposed to the smaller port area on the tidal brackish side of the sea lock which is directly accessible from the Nieuwe Waterweg. Last time we were there In 2017 there was major construction on and below the railway bridges crossing the canal with enormous pontoons below and surrounding fences. I wrongly assumed this was work on a sea lock that having just now checked google earth clearly doesn’t exist!

I’ll now grab my hat and quietly leave

I understand you confusion.
Indeed there are lock gates at the entrance to the harbour but this is not a lock but a turning lock, it turns the water during extremely high or low tide.

As for the deepening of the New Waterway, this dates from 1916 and a partial deepening on the sea side in 2018 but this concerns a small section.
The rest has been made shallower by dumping gravel and sand to stop the water from eroding.
Deep-sea ships sail over the adjacent Caland Canal which was built in 1960.
We digress.

 

[Kent33]

I understand you confusion.
Indeed there are lock gates at the entrance to the harbour but this is not a lock but a turning lock, it turns the water during extremely high or low tide.

As for the deepening of the New Waterway, this dates from 1916 and a partial deepening on the sea side in 2018 but this concerns a small section.
The rest has been made shallower by dumping gravel and sand to stop the water from eroding.
Deep-sea ships sail over the adjacent Caland Canal which was built in 1960.
We digress.

Love this forum, always something new to learn and correct any misconceptions.

 

[dannc]

I understand you confusion.
Indeed there are lock gates at the entrance to the harbour but this is not a lock but a turning lock, it turns the water during extremely high or low tide.

As for the deepening of the New Waterway, this dates from 1916 and a partial deepening on the sea side in 2018 but this concerns a small section.
The rest has been made shallower by dumping gravel and sand to stop the water from eroding.
Deep-sea ships sail over the adjacent Caland Canal which was built in 1960.
We digress.

It may be a digression but I find it fascinating. I remember as a kid watching old news reel footage of the closure of the Zuider Zee and never dreamed I would some day drive across the Afsluitdijk. I wish we had had time to stop and actually see the North Sea and the Afsluitdijk but we had an appointment to meet with a boat builder.

They were doing work on the Afsluitdijk so it was interesting seeing the materials and techniques being used. I have been watching YouTube videos on the Julianna Canal which has been, putting on my Spock ears, fascinating.