Open water crossing

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motion30

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I am in the Florida keys and I feel like I want to head for the Virgin Islands for the summer. Maybe try to get below the hurricane belt I live aboard a 44ft Chung whaa MY. Twin 3208s. My boat is mechanically well maintained and sound. Maybe unwarranted but I am worried about opening water crossings. Who has done a similar trip with the similar boat? Advice?
 
Do you have stabilizers?
 
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I am in the Florida keys and I feel like I want to head for the Virgin Islands for the summer. Maybe try to get below the hurricane belt I live aboard a 44ft Chung whaa MY. Twin 3208s. My boat is mechanically well maintained and sound. Maybe unwarranted but I am worried about opening water crossings. Who has done a similar trip with the similar boat? Advice?
how about finding a willing experienced captain to go with you offshore out of sight of land with your boat with you at the helm for a trial run.
Does not have to be a paid captain, just someone who has done it with a similar boat.
 
I am in the Florida keys and I feel like I want to head for the Virgin Islands for the summer. Maybe try to get below the hurricane belt I live aboard a 44ft Chung whaa MY. Twin 3208s. My boat is mechanically well maintained and sound. Maybe unwarranted but I am worried about opening water crossings. Who has done a similar trip with the similar boat? Advice?
I have only heard of a few similar boats making that trip.

The 2 items that stand out are first the trip is pretty miserable as the trades are relentless at 10-15 knots or so and create a sea state that without stabilization make for an uncomfortable but not necessarily a dangerous ride. The second is which posts of call/fuel stops you make. The are many places you can pull into, but many you may not want to. This part of the trip may be a real hand wringer.

Definitely keep exploring the idea as it will take a lot of planning and double checking any info that is not very up to date as some of the potential areas to stop seem to change quite frequently in user friendliness.

Hopefully some here can point you to all the great sources of cruising info for the area.

Good luck.
 
First of all, I wouldn't with your boat. IMO, I don't think it's designed to take the kind of beating you could find yourself in.

From a logistics standpoint, what kind of fuel range relative to cruise speed do you have? I would imagine that your boat won't be tolerable at slow speed going into seas, needing to punch through. Some of the open sections between island chains are quite large.

Ted
 
For more information, Google "The Thorny Path". This trip has been done by many people including power boats much smaller than yours but, that trip is not for the faint of heart or in experienced blue water cruiser.
 
Here is a link that has some good, some bad info. But it discusses sources for ideas.


I know of more power that has gone to the Carribean but went West as the stops are shorter and you are not fighting the trade winds as much. Going East has been primarily a sailing adventure in my experiences, but in power it is possible, but as one reads some posts in the link above.... some of the cons are definitely outweighed the pros. Some stories discuss shipping the boat versus on her own hull.

Either way, it can be done. People have done it but like many boating stories, keep in mind that for every success, often there is a failure. Not that all end in tragedy, but that the trip was not what they dreamed of.

It's definitely a trip worthy of deep planning. Both the technical categories as well as what will be necessary to make it a great trip.
 
First of all, I wouldn't with your boat. IMO, I don't think it's designed to take the kind of beating you could find yourself in.

From a logistics standpoint, what kind of fuel range relative to cruise speed do you have? I would imagine that your boat won't be tolerable at slow speed going into seas, needing to punch through. Some of the open sections between island chains are quite large.

Ted
I've been shopping for fuel bladders for additional fuel capacity, Or even 55 gallon drums. But honestly I'm not a Big fan of getting my brains beat out. My experience in the past has always been the boat could take more than I could. I'm going to keep an open mind but try to find an alternative plan.
I'm cruising with the captain friend of mine to bring a boat back from the virgins to the West Coast of Florida In the end of may. Maybe that experience will give me some direction.
I could go North to the Chesapeake by this point that is kind of boring to me. Can anybody suggest an alternative destination that will be an easier run
 
For more information, Google "The Thorny Path". This trip has been done by many people including power boats much smaller than yours but, that trip is not for the faint of heart or in experienced blue water cruiser.
I have a friend that just ran this thorny path He is currently in Puerto Rico. Of course he is in a 38ft sailboat. He did say it was a bit sporty

I am open to any suggestions for Alternate destinations. If anyone has reasonable suggestions. I don't have charge yet but I did recently purchase a couple different cruising guides
 
Keep in mind during your trip that beating into the trades, your boat may feel different than this trip running downhill. for part of it. It certainly is a very valuable trip to learn from!

I sympathize with running a familiar path. The Western Carribean may be a bit easier for sea conditions but still a struggle for friendly fuel stops...especially nowadays. Then again I'm not there or recently there so up to date info is wise.

Have you contacted your insurance to verify if ANY place in the Carribean is outside the hurricane belt these days? The way they have shifted the line north in the US and hurricanes do skirt South America sometimes.... I wonder what insurance companies are saying these days?
 
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Keep in mind during your trip that beating into the trades, your boat may feel different than running downhill. But it certainly is a very valuable trip to learn from!
I've done the Icw to the Chesapeake a 1/2 dozen times, Not as many trips as you have made. And I have made it to the South end Of the exumas in the Bahamas, But it seems that was mostly a calm weather trip.
 
I've been at anchortime for probably the last 8 years, Not really interested in docking in a marina except for fuel. So I have the anchoring part down I'm confident in that
 
I added some more to my last post.
 
Can you leave at the end of hurricane season? In the many months before the start of the next hurricane season, will there be enough windows to make all of those crossings in decent conditions? That's what it would take in my mind, but it may come down to this:
Have you contacted your insurance to verify if ANY place in the Carribean is outside the hurricane belt these days? The way they have shifted the line north in the US and hurricanes do skirt South America sometimes.... I wonder what insurance companies are saying these days?
 
Can you leave at the end of hurricane season? In the many months before the start of the next hurricane season, will there be enough windows to make all of those crossings in decent conditions? That's what it would take in my mind, but it may come down to this:
Pretty sure the trades have already stated up. They are partially the result of the Bermuda high that seems to be giving Florida a pretty healthy dose of Easterlies the last few weeks.

That means few and short windows of no trades in open waters...the islands do vary a bit around their coasts, but not much in open waters.

I thought that Motion30 wanted to be South of the Hurricane Belt for the Summer.
 
I don't have any current plans for the trip you're envisioning, but I like to think way ahead and am currently reading "Passages South: the Thornless Path to Windward." The 10th and last edition is now 10+ years old, and so harbor information is surely outdated, but it's a fun (breezy?) read, and the author is certainly a character (I write that with admiration). Books by Bruce Van Sant
 
I have a friend that just ran this thorny path He is currently in Puerto Rico. Of course he is in a 38ft sailboat. He did say it was a bit sporty

I am open to any suggestions for Alternate destinations. If anyone has reasonable suggestions. I don't have charge yet but I did recently purchase a couple different cruising guides
If you want something tougher try the down east loop or Lake Huron/North Channel.
 
I could go North to the Chesapeake by this point that is kind of boring to me. Can anybody suggest an alternative destination that will be an easier run
I winter in Fort Myers, FL. If I were going to spend hurricane season there, I would plan to be able to move (3+ days in advance) the boat across the Okeechobee waterway to Stuart. That transit takes 2 days at 6 knots. Obviously you could stay in Stuart and move to the West coast. There are several in water marinas on the waterway that you likely could use if you wanted to spend a month or two in, that would atleast protect you from waves and flooding. Depending on your budget, you could have a mooring in Stuart and one in Fort Myers Beach (places to anchor out are also available). I'm pretty certain that no hurricane ever went across from Fort Myers to Stuart, they usually move North.

Ted
 
Resources to help you decide:

NoForeignLand - an App similar to the old ActiveCaptain. You can filter to fuel docks. You can leap frog across the Bahamas to Dominican Republic and then on to Puerto Rico. See attached screenshot.

Here's their Web page. I recommend establishing an account and download the actual android of iPhone app.

Pilot Charts. Historical weather patterns. They take a bit of study but give you some decent ideas of what months you can travel. Thorny Path book is mostly sail oriented which doesn't share a lot of overlap with ideal power boat conditions. Pilot charts can help.


Weather tools - I recently posted a nerdy thread on weather tools. Might be of interest. Given your boat, you'd need to be very patient and expect long waits for weather windows. Might have difficulty getting far enough south fast enough to avoid hurricanes


Alternative destinations. Might want to consider heading down to the Rio Dulce in Guatemala. Cross to Yucatan and head south along the coast. Note - there are some fairly steep conditions that sweep this coastline

Good luck.

Peter
 

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Guatemala is also a consideration. I have friends they're both there. I'm assuming once I reached Mexico I Could stay close to the coast still reaching the Rio dolce
 
I could go North to the Chesapeake by this point that is kind of boring to me. Can anybody suggest an alternative destination that will be an easier run
You could head for the rivers... through Mobile up to the Tennessee River, maybe the Ohio too if you've got the whole summer. Come back south on the Mississippi and through Louisiana.

I should add that I haven't done the FL -> USVI run, but I have a few friends who have, and it sounds like a real slog. And working down the chain from there to the southern side of the hurricane zone in a power boat wouldn't be fun.
 
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I am in the Florida keys and I feel like I want to head for the Virgin Islands for the summer. Maybe try to get below the hurricane belt I live aboard a 44ft Chung whaa MY. Twin 3208s. My boat is mechanically well maintained and sound. Maybe unwarranted but I am worried about opening water crossings. Who has done a similar trip with the similar boat? Advice?
I would recommend heading over to the Bahamas first. May or June, watch for a good weather window then send it. You'll out of sight of land for only a few hours and you'll gain experience and confidence. I'd head to Nausau first, regroup, and then head down into the Exumas. Lots of places to stop, Staniel Cay Yacht Club is a must, you're on the leeward side of all the islands and very safe. Just island hop south and pretty soon you'll be most of the way to the DR. Continue on or head back at that point. Many boats much smaller than yours have made the trip but the weather is everything. I did the Exumas in a 52 Hatt for a month a couple years ago and never once had a weather/seas concern.
 
I am in the Florida keys and I feel like I want to head for the Virgin Islands for the summer. Maybe try to get below the hurricane belt I live aboard a 44ft Chung whaa MY. Twin 3208s. My boat is mechanically well maintained and sound. Maybe unwarranted but I am worried about opening water crossings. Who has done a similar trip with the similar boat? Advice?
The trip is possible, but your timing if off you are best to sit out the hurricane season here and sail late winter say December to March. There are lots of resources for this journey. The ABM in the Bahamas will get you thru the Bahamas to Turks . Then you are on your own for the longest part of the trip Turks to Puerto Rico. Avoid the Dominican Republic. the rest of your Journey is almost Line of sight Navigation ( see your destination before losing sight of land) I am from the Caribbean Owner of a 53 Hatteras and is planning that trip to Grenada in the winter. (I have sailed the Caribbean and know you don't have to worry. From Puerto Rico to Grenada are all day crossings from one island to the next)I have done all the planning and I know you can make the Journey. Need at least three persons on board to Cross from Turks to Western PR say Cabo Rojo, This will be the most challenging leg of your trip ( Your only over night crossing) the rest is a breeze, Max 50 to 75 miles between islands. Pull anchor and explore that's what boats are for!!!! Good Luck

I am on Miss Lynn
 
Have you considered shipping the boat there? Might be cheaper or same without getting beat up in open seas.
 
Having lived and worked in the Caribbean (as a SAR pilot) for several decades I can tell you that the Caribbean Sea is no joke and most of the year there is a very small window in which you can cross. Other than that the seas are extremely rough. Along the coast of Venezuela you will find a very short, but high wave pattern most of the time. In the middle of the Caribbean Sea there is a long swell from one direction and on top of that a different wave pattern usually 70 to 90 degrees off and over that you have the wind pattern. Wind in the Caribbean usually is from the direction 80 - 120 degrees with 15 - 20 kts, gusting 25 kts. (weather forecast 99 % of the time).
That is roughly what you will encounter most of the year. In September we are in de doll drums and that means almost no wind and calmer seas, however...........that is also the middle of the hurricane season, a time when you don't want to be in the Caribbean unless you are in the area of Bonaire, Curacao and Aruba, which are outside of the hurricane belt.
Coming to the ABC islands via Trinidad is an option, however.........you will also need to go back one day and going East is absolutely not an option. That would mean you would have to go West, direction Colombia, Panama etc, but you will encounter extremely rough seas between Curacao / Aruba and Venezuela. Reason for this is that the waves, coming from the East, hit the Venezuealan coast and are being bounced back.

Behind the islands, the West side, the waters are usually calm, but you will have to stay within 1 or 2 miles off the coast. Venture out any further and you will be again in the strong winds and therefore rough seas. And of course, going from one island to another means you will need to expose yourself to the weather between the islands (lots of wind and rough seas).
Mexico on the other hand is also not free of hurricanes, so be aware of that.

To be honest, I don't think the Caribbean Sea is something for a 30' motor boat without stabilization. Even with my 49' stabilized boat it would not be fun. Passages are long and rough. Several spots are of course nice to go to, such as BVI's or Turks and Caicos islands, but in order to get there you will be experiencing very unpleasant seas.
And to top it off, almost all the islands are extremely criminal, which means don't be surprised if you get robbed or you find your boat looted, dinghy with outboard stolen etc.
It all sounds very negative, but it is better to know what reality is all about instead of expecting a fairy tale experience.
 
I think he has an 44 ft Chung Hwa…
 
On the rivers... the navigation will be easier but you will have to deal with the locks. There are about 20 of them between Mobile and Chattanooga. And more north of that. There are not a lot of great stops. The fact that Bobby's Fish Camp is often cited as a highlight should tell you something.

Consider going to Maine. Or at least head north. ICW available to Norfolk and then a mixture of somewhat protected routes and offshore routes after that. You will get a taste of open water. You can turn around or duck in if it gets uncomfortable.
Cruising the east coast is kind of a "See America First" trip. St Augustine, Charleston, Beaufort ( both of them), Chesapeake Bay, New York City, Long Island Sound, Newport, Martha's Vineyard, and on and on. If you make it to Maine you will be rewarded by extraordinary natural beauty. Yes, you will have to deal with lobster pots.

I summary, re rivers vs east coast cruising: would you rather eat catfish of lobster ?
 
I think he has an 44 ft Chung Hwa…
Thanks for the clarification, but still think the Caribbean Sea is not for small boats without stabilization, unless you like to torture yourself of course. Only option would be to go in September, but that is the middle of hurricane season, not a good idea to be out there and unable to get quickly out of harms way.
 
Having lived and worked in the Caribbean (as a SAR pilot) for several decades I can tell you that the Caribbean Sea is no joke and most of the year there is a very small window in which you can cross. Other than that the seas are extremely rough. Along the coast of Venezuela you will find a very short, but high wave pattern most of the time. In the middle of the Caribbean Sea there is a long swell from one direction and on top of that a different wave pattern usually 70 to 90 degrees off and over that you have the wind pattern. Wind in the Caribbean usually is from the direction 80 - 120 degrees with 15 - 20 kts, gusting 25 kts. (weather forecast 99 % of the time).
That is roughly what you will encounter most of the year. In September we are in de doll drums and that means almost no wind and calmer seas, however...........that is also the middle of the hurricane season, a time when you don't want to be in the Caribbean unless you are in the area of Bonaire, Curacao and Aruba, which are outside of the hurricane belt.
Coming to the ABC islands via Trinidad is an option, however.........you will also need to go back one day and going East is absolutely not an option. That would mean you would have to go West, direction Colombia, Panama etc, but you will encounter extremely rough seas between Curacao / Aruba and Venezuela. Reason for this is that the waves, coming from the East, hit the Venezuealan coast and are being bounced back.

Behind the islands, the West side, the waters are usually calm, but you will have to stay within 1 or 2 miles off the coast. Venture out any further and you will be again in the strong winds and therefore rough seas. And of course, going from one island to another means you will need to expose yourself to the weather between the islands (lots of wind and rough seas).
Mexico on the other hand is also not free of hurricanes, so be aware of that.

To be honest, I don't think the Caribbean Sea is something for a 30' motor boat without stabilization. Even with my 49' stabilized boat it would not be fun. Passages are long and rough. Several spots are of course nice to go to, such as BVI's or Turks and Caicos islands, but in order to get there you will be experiencing very unpleasant seas.
And to top it off, almost all the islands are extremely criminal, which means don't be surprised if you get robbed or you find your boat looted, dinghy with outboard stolen etc.
It all sounds very negative, but it is better to know what reality is all about instead of expecting a fairy tale experience.
Obviously this person don't know much about boating in the Caribbean This is what it could be Sailing from West Palm beach to Grenada: 74 NMi to Freeport Bahamas, contact the Association of Bahamas Marinas in Freeport. An get guide through the Bahamas: 60miles per day to Turks and Cacois ((about 400+ miles total) 240 miles to Puerto Rico (western end next to the Mona channel which could be rough at times. you need two fair days, Then about 145 miles along the south coast to USVI, The balance of your trip to Grenada on the Leeward side of the Islands are all day trips, none more than 10 hrs at 7 to 8 knots approx. Grenada is about 13 degrees north which is considered safe by some insurances, all sorts of facilities there, Thousands of boaters sail the Caribbean annually From Puerto Rico to Grenada, Most avoid Trinidad and further south to the ABC islands cause of the 600 miles crossing. As for any other crossings the weather must be a factor considered. Sail on favorable forecast only, rest the other days A Caribbean trip DOES NOT include Venezuela,. My friend had his $12,000 dinghy stolen in Madeira Beach. And robbers armed with shot guns tried to steal a new yacht from Harborside Marina a gated property, Just to make a point. If you have confidence in your boat and a capable navigator, don't let any one deter you from your adventure. If needed, take a trip to the Dry Tortugas and see how that feels it is about 75 miles from Florida out in the Gulf. Note 15 Knots wind in the Gulf is a lot more choppy then 15 Knots in the Caribbean, 3 to 6 seconds in the apart in the Gulf to 10 to 15 seconds in the Caribbean sea, and this is relative to existing condition, This is all I have to say on this topic. Good Luck and Fair journey.
 
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