On the hook? West Coast USA

[ejbeaty]

Hi all,

We were Fulltime RVers for a number of years and currently do it about half the year now. Very interested in live aboard life but the whole marina thing feels a lot like living in an RV park, which we generally detest. Instead, we prefer what the RV community calls "boondocking"... staying on public lands/farms/wineries/etc.. so as not to be shoehorned into an RV park with all the weekenders. Of course it happens from time to time when there's somewhere we want to be and it's not a huge deal, just not our preference.

Life on the hook sounds like the boating equivalent in many ways. The idea of doing something similar on the west coast sounds FANTASTIC. Baja in the winter or PNW in the summer. Is it realistic? If we did it for 3-4 months a year, could it be done for say $25k annually, including storage and maintenance? Do maritime laws/local ordinances make it impossible in those parts? Do I need to worry about having my boat stolen when I come within 500 miles of Portland (kidding, kind of)?

 

[KnotYet]

The 2500 or so miles between Cabo and Canada is much further on the
water than it is on land. A truly adventurous couple could do it
occasionally but I would expect to spend a few multiples of the budget you have in mind after you find an appropriate vessel to do it in.

If what you mean to do is use a boat in one place or the other and store it in the off-season, then that's what lots of people are doing already
in both areas.

This is not meant to discourage your idea. In fact, once you experience
Mexico's Gold Coast you may decide to keep heading further south.

 

[ejbeaty]

I would expect to spend a few multiples of the budget you have in mind after you find an appropriate vessel to do it in.

I don't think we'd do it all in one go. Our home base is in AZ so we'd probably pic a different area to explore every year... maybe using SoCal as a launching off point... or Ensenada? Still trying to figure out what's realistic with or around that budget.

 

[KnotYet]

I don't think we'd do it all in one go. Our home base is in AZ so we'd probably pic a different area to explore every year... maybe using SoCal as a launching off point... or Ensenada? Still trying to figure out what's realistic with or around that budget.

This would be a good time to take your RV to Mexico and visit the areas
that interest you. Check out the secluded bays in the Sea of Cortez, for example.

SoCal is probably the most expensive place on the west coast to
keep a boat in the water. There are few safe long-term anchorages.

 

[mvweebles]

For the most part, there are not many anchorages for anchor-out type cruising. Being from AZ, your best bet would be to keep a boat in San Carlos and do the Sea of Cortez in winters. That should keep you busy for quite a few years. It would be as inexpensive as cruising a boat can be, but that doesn't make it cheap. Maintenance and repairs are higher than a comparable RV, as is storage. As a very rough guess, I'd 2x+ whatever you spend now on your RV lifestyle (not including capital cost of thr vehicle).

Going between Baja on the west coast and PNW is possible, but for all intents, not realistic., especially for a Newbie as I perceive you to be. Using a skiing term, it's a Black Diamond commute.

Good luck.

Peter

EDIT - a couple suggestions:

1. Check out "Gone with the Winns" on YouTube. They started their YouTube channel 10-years ago as RVers, then switched to a sailboat about 6-years ago. They too were Boondockers, and had zero experience with boats. They are currently in New Zealand, halfway around their circumnavigation. Their early episodes might have decent inspiration for you.

2 "ActiveCaptain" is roughly similar to iOverlander.com for user-rated anchorages. I think you'll find the Pacific Coast is pretty sparse for anchor-outs. There are a few decent cruising areas: PNW, SF Bay, but thats about it Even So Cal is pretty limited (the Channel Islands being great, but not many other options). Pacific Baja coast is also pretty sparse -

 

[slowgoesit]

We purchased our boat last year in the PNW. We just finished a round trip to Glacier Bay, Alaska, and back to Port Orchard, WA. In the 86 days we were gone, we stayed at pay docks 12 days, mostly in Ketchikan waiting for friends to either fly in or fly out.

1. It's totally doable, however, as KnotYet stated, you will spend multiples of the $25k you stated for a boat capable for COMFORTABLE, liveaboard.
2. Second, if you spend most of your nights on the hook, IMHO you need solar, LOTS of solar, or be resigned to running a generator 2 - 4 hours a day.
3. You need a substantial house battery bank if you want creature comforts you are accustomed to in your RV (internet, refrigerator, etc)
4. Although, in the PNW, and many other areas, dockwater is pretty readily available, we prefer our onboard watermaker when cruising.
5. Laundry. We have an onboard washer/dryer, which we run while cruising, when hooked up to shore power, or when it is sunny, SUNNY day.
6. Between PWN and Mexico, there is a lot of, well, nothing. Long runs, safe harbors are available, but require prior planning. We have not made the run to Mexico yet, but we are planning on going to Sea of Cortez Fall of next year.
7. Once you have bought your boat, and once she is outfit the way you want, which for us included a hard bimini, 2180 watts of solar, 1200 ah of LiFePO4 batteries, substantial inverter, and watermaker, you might, MIGHT be able to do it on $25k/year, but not if you are cruising a lot. Just for info, our 2,900 mile to Glacier Bay, AK and back, about the distance from PNW to say the tip of Baha, consumed about 1400 gallons of diesel, or about 2 mpg. At today's diesel prices, that equates to about $7,000.00. That's just for the trip down, and leaves you about $15k left for the rest of the year . . . .

Personally I don't think $25k is enough. Including boat "stuff" and maintenance, we're looking at a minimum of $75k, but that's just us.


Best of luck in whatever you decide!

 

[DavidM]

We cruised full time on the east coast from Key West to Maine, living on the hook 98% of the time (liveaboard cruising on the hook is a close analogy to boondocking) for about a year. We also took weekend and weeklong trips in SoCal (Long Beach to San Diego) when we worked there. So I have a pretty good perspective about what it takes to live aboard cruise on the west coast, at least SoCal.

Anchorages are much, much more prevalent on the east coast than west. Heck the Chesapeake has hundreds, but it isn't impossible to grab an anchorage on the west coast. We anchored in Coronado Bay (you have to make a reservation though), Mission Bay, Dana Point, Newport Harbor, Catalina Island, etc.

Some anchorages- Catalina for example are more exposed and deep- as much as 100', so you need good ground tackle. Reprovisioning from an anchorage will be more difficult since there are fewer anchorages and close by grocery stores than the east coast.

Other than the reservation requirements, there are restrictions on where you can anchor but that is why there are fewer anchorages. But it really isn't all that much different from a similarly populated area on the east coast, it's just that all of SoCal at least is populated.

One problem you will have is finding storage, either a slip or storing on the hard. Slips were very hard to find when we lived in SoCal twenty years ago and land storage space is limited because there is no demand for winter haul out like in the NE. Yards have limited space and it is mostly used for maintaining boats on the hard.

Other than boat maintenance costs, living aboard can be fairly cheap. Food, fuel, insurance, a marina slip maybe once a month, etc. But boat maintenance can be anything. I would budget 10% of the boat value the first year to catch up on upgrades and deferred maintenance and at least 5% thereafter. But that is just a wild approximation.

Good luck.

David

 

[sunchaser]

EJB
Or you could stay in AZ in winter (5 months) and cruise BC and AK in summer (7 months). For that matter, RV the PNW. We've several friends that sold their boats and did just that.

Do you have a boating background? Without that history your question entails a bit of learning, quite a bit.

 

[Larry M]

X c to coo cc ������

 

[Lepke]

Traveling north of San Francisco is time consuming if you're not use to rough weather. I was a commercial fisherman and have a big boat, so traveling in marginal weather doesn't bother me. It probably will bother you.
I usually do my trips in a single shot. But most others jump from port to port and wait out the storms. There are very few comfortable anchorages north of SF. Almost every port has a bar to cross.

 

[Comodave]

I have run downhill the west coast but not uphill. Downhill, from Washington to California, is way easier than running uphill. Doing the uphill run every year would get old IMO. As said the anchorages are few and far between on the west coast in contrast to the east coast where anchorages are readily available. Have you considered the east coast for your cruising instead of the west coast?

 

[ddw36]

Since there are so many negatives to cruising south to Mexico, are there any TFers that would have some insight re: cost of trucking, say, a 40' boat from, say, Seattle to Yuma & from there south to the Sea of Cortez? It may be a more convenient (more costly?) way of traveling south.

 

[ejbeaty]

Thanks all, this is great perspective. The draw of the west coast is really only that it's within a day's drive. As RVers, the east coast has always appealed to us far less because of how busy it is but perhaps the experience would be different on a boat.

Sea of Cortez is interesting and needs further thought. It's close, affordable, and we enjoy Mexico. I'm not familiar with San Carlos but we've enjoyed our time on the other side of the Sea in Baja. We've kicked the idea around of just getting an AirBnB for a few months in Mulege this winter so maybe we need to consider San Carlos instead.

I have no prior boating experience. at all. My wife and I have been interested in it for years now and go through cycles of wanting to try it, then getting discouraged by the logistics, then losing interest for 6 months before the cycle repeats. As our financial position has has improved over the years, maintenance, slips fees, etc.. are less of a dissuader and it's gaining more traction. She wants to do a proper vacation away from work this winter so maybe we need to try and charter a boat/get lessons during that time.

Great stuff, thank you, I appreciate the input greatly.

 

[Comodave]

As a newbie boater the east coast has a lot to offer. The ICW and protected cruising which the west coast doesn’t have. When we brought a boat down the west coast we had several days of 18’ seas, not too bad until you wanted to cross the bar and go into a harbor. The CG came out at Grays Harbor and escorted us in. If you don’t have any boating experience then you should start now getting some. Getting insurance without any experience may be just difficult or it may be impossible. Check with an insurance broker and see what they recommend as to what to do to get some experience that will help qualify you for insurance. Good luck and keep posting and asking questions.

 

[GrandWood]

Figure 10% of the cost of the boat in yearly maintenance, that does not include fuel, oil, food, and any slip fees, that’s just to have a boat sit in the water. Every 2/3 yrs you need to haul out and bottom paint at the minimum. Check the videos available on yard costs, and maintenance, it’s no joke, boats are expensive. There’s packages for haul outs, 1800, haul out, prep bottom and paint, back in the water, sounds reasonable right, cept there’s that 300.00 a gal paint that is not in the package, hehe.

 

[GoneFarrell]

Sea of Cortez is interesting and needs further thought. It's close, affordable, and we enjoy Mexico. I'm not familiar with San Carlos but we've enjoyed our time on the other side of the Sea in Baja. We've kicked the idea around of just getting an AirBnB for a few months in Mulege this winter so maybe we need to consider San Carlos instead.

I have no prior boating experience. at all.

Great stuff, thank you, I appreciate the input greatly.

You could do worse than Mulege! I've wintered there last 15 years. Will be back again this winter with gal's big sailboat. So if you show up there let me know.

We ran trailer boats there several years, kayaks. Big fun. Wild. And needs prior experience with boats and weather

Just get something not too big and start racking up time on the water. Costs way less to learn too. Is first boat. If you 2 like it. It won't be your last boat. Huge piece of freedom still to be on the water.

 

[READY]

I can speak directly to San Diego. The anchorages are typically limited to 3 nights in a row. Most SoCal anchorages are targeting those in transit and not long term. A budget of $25k on most boats for most people would be challenging at best in many parts of the US I think.

For further consideration living on the hook is more complex than boondocks in my opinion. I know boats and RVs and a boat is floating in salt water which adds another level of cost.

 

[ejbeaty]

All, thanks for the great input here. I think we have a few well articulated hurdles:
1) We don't know WHERE we would do this... or at least haven't found the place that meets all of our criteria. Further exploring required
2) We're thinking big, end-game picture first which is probably too much of a leap while being so ill-informed.
3) I need some boating experience

If I were to tell someone how to solve these same problems in an RV, I'd tell them to do it on the cheap first and then once they figure out their "style" of RVing, upgrade into the right rig.

If I translate that to boats... I think I need to get myself something like a MacGregor 26 that I can trailer around and "camp" on lakes and big rivers to test the waters (pun intended?).

Thoughts?

 

[socalrider]

All, thanks for the great input here. I think we have a few well articulated hurdles:
1) We don't know WHERE we would do this... or at least haven't found the place that meets all of our criteria. Further exploring required
2) We're thinking big, end-game picture first which is probably too much of a leap while being so ill-informed.
3) I need some boating experience

If I were to tell someone how to solve these same problems in an RV, I'd tell them to do it on the cheap first and then once they figure out their "style" of RVing, upgrade into the right rig.

If I translate that to boats... I think I need to get myself something like a MacGregor 26 that I can trailer around and "camp" on lakes and big rivers to test the waters (pun intended?).

Thoughts?

Quick thoughts:
- Friend with a boat? Maybe join a boating club locally? This can be a great way to get out on the water for low $$.
- I know lots of people have had fun on Mac 26's but I'd look elsewhere; they're sort of the Amphicar of boating - bad at both sailing and motoring... I'd pick one or the other depending on where you're going & what you like (sailing vs motoring).

 

[slowgoesit]

Ditto on the MacGregor. They don't do ANYTHING well! Also, you may want to post on the forum that you are interested in cruising with folks that have their own boats. Offer to pay for diesel and your food, and you may get some takers. It'll get you out on the water with some experienced folks, and allow you to check out different types of boats and different cruising areas. Worth a try!

 

[mvweebles]

Might want to consider a trailerable boat such as a Ranger 26, Rosborough 26, Acadia 25, or even some of the small Cape Dory boats. Would require a Ford F350 or better to tow, but you could bounce between prime cruising locations of rhr PNW, Sea of Cortez, even Florida and the Bahamas.

Peter

 

[socalrider]

Might want to consider a trailerable boat such as a Ranger 26, Rosborough 26, Acadia 25, or even some of the small Cape Dory boats. Would require a Ford F350 or better to tow, but you could bounce between prime cruising locations of rhr PNW, Sea of Cortez, even Florida and the Bahamas.

Peter

Good call. I always liked idea of the Farrier/Corsair trailerable trimarans as well for that kind of use if you're up for the minimalist lifestyle. They sail really really well & are lighter than the keelboats, so maybe could get away with an F150.

 

[ejbeaty]

Might want to consider a trailerable boat such as a Ranger 26, Rosborough 26, Acadia 25, or even some of the small Cape Dory boats. Would require a Ford F350 or better to tow, but you could bounce between prime cruising locations of rhr PNW, Sea of Cortez, even Florida and the Bahamas.

Peter

What if I don't want to buy a Super Duty? Are there other trailer-able boats that I might consider? Part of the appeal of the Mac is how light it is. I just sold my super duty a couple years ago and would rather not pay the current premium to get into another.

Something under 6000lbs would be ideal I think... that leaves a bit of room for other cargo/fuel/etc.. if you have a full size pick up

 

[mvweebles]

Roxborough 246 is advertised at 6000 lbs. I'd imagine by the time it's loaded on trailer, 10k lbs at a minimum. Ford advertises their F150 as having up to a 14k lb tow capacity, but I don't believe it for a second.

If you've owned a F350, you have much more experience than I do. I have a E150 van and it's pretty anemic. But I drive on the Rockies quite a bit. Being passed by a newer 1-ton dually truck accelerating up the Continental Divide pulling a triple axle 5th wheel behemoth is impressive. On the flip side, passing overheated or broken down smaller tow vehicles is also sobering.

Peter

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2005-rosborough-rf--246-sedan-cruiser-8386754/

 

[heysteve]

We used to have a C-Dory Venture 23 that we'd use on the rivers around Portland then trailer it up to Puget Sound for summer vacations. We once spent three weeks living aboard while cruising around the San Juan/Gulf Islands. You can tow them with a 5000lb rated vehicle which is pretty common. Tough and economical little boats.

 

[Coppercove1]

To obtain experience in boats larger than we owned, above trailering length, we did bare boat charters over a 13 year period: 31 ft Camano Troll, 35 ft CHB, 28 ft Aspen Powercat, Westcoast 57, Westcoast 46, Bayliner 4087 and Bayliner 3988, all in either BC or Washington.

We recommend this as a good way to determine if ownership of a substantial boat above trailering length is worthwhile.

In 2021 we were lucky and also confident to buy our 1985 LaBelle 44, and are up to 48 nights out this year. We averaged so far 5 nights on the hook/2 nights in a Marina, mainly owing to our semi-retirement part time jobs which require internet or cellular coverage for meetings. We could easily reduce the moorage nights with better connectivity.

After purchase last year we installed a bow thruster, rebuilt coolers on one engine, installed new shaft seals both sides and just bought a near-new tender and motor. About CAD $70k into various repairs and improvements after purchase.

We consider this first full summer as an extended shakeout cruise.

A diesel furnace, Starlink, solar panels and water maker are on the improvement list.

We are good In this trawler travel to Alaska and circumnavigating Vancouver Island but would not cross Hecate Strait to Haida Gwai or go south to Mexico without either active or passive stabilization. Not sure yet if that will form part of the improvement list in future.

In summary, we are now have a comfortable trawler that we are happy to spend months at a time on including guests and family for stays up to a week or more. We have more places to visit than years available to enjoy this boat.

Couldn’t be more satisfied this far and we appreciate all the info on this forum, it is appreciated

It is possible to make this happen and we did not spend anything close to the cost of a summer cabin or a new vessel.

I think your idea of RV plus 5-6 months of boating life can work on an annual basis. Boating in the PWC, BC and Alaska in the summer and warm climes in the RV in winter. Looking forward to hearing how this goes for you.

 

[tiltrider1]

All, thanks for the great input here. I think we have a few well articulated hurdles:
1) We don't know WHERE we would do this... or at least haven't found the place that meets all of our criteria. Further exploring required
2) We're thinking big, end-game picture first which is probably too much of a leap while being so ill-informed.
3) I need some boating experience

If I were to tell someone how to solve these same problems in an RV, I'd tell them to do it on the cheap first and then once they figure out their "style" of RVing, upgrade into the right rig.

If I translate that to boats... I think I need to get myself something like a MacGregor 26 that I can trailer around and "camp" on lakes and big rivers to test the waters (pun intended?).

Thoughts?

The previous negative comments about the Mac 26 are basically incorrect. First off there are 3 different models of the Mac 26. There is the classic, the X and the M.

The notion that they sail poorly comes from the fact that they are an entry level boat. They don’t so much as sail poorly as they are generally sailed poorly by inexperienced sailors.

A 26M model sails just as well if not better than a trailerable Hunter 26. The 26M also has the ability to cruise at 14kts under power. If you choose to not add the weight of a 70 hp out board the sailing performance increase considerably.

So what 26’ sailboat with equivalent cruising comforts can out sail a 26M?

Now every boat is a compromise and the M26 covers 5 of the biggest compromises (price, size, trailerable, max cruising comforts and speed). A pretty impressive boat when you consider all those compromises.

There is nothing wrong with starting with an affordable boat. I sailed a Mac 26 Classic to Alaska and back when I was 29.

 

[JRO]

No.

 

[thataway]

We cruised for 4 years (Calif. to Europe and back) in 1982 thru 1986 for about $1000 a month. This was a low budget with a 62' LOA pilot house motor sailor--which cost about $130,000 in 1982 (boat plus modifications for safe cruising)--I already had over 100,000 mile at sea in small boats at racing and cruising Mexico, plus Calif. Coast. Most long passages were under sail--so fuel (we carried 700 gallons of diesel, but could buy it for as low as 15 cents a gallon.) We also got about 6 miles per gallon of diesel, considerably better than most "trawler' types at 6 knots. But there are so many factors you have to put in. We rarely used a marina, and if we ate out it was on the local economy. We took another 4 year set of voyages, with a Cal 46--another smaller pilot house motor sailor In the 1995 era would have been $25,000 a year. That would equate to $36,000 a year currently.

There is another option. That is basically a "trailerable Trawler"--some have spoken of the MacGregor 26--Not really a live aboard boat. But there are trailerable boats which can be reasonably comfortable live aboard. For the last 17 years we have been "sailing" C Dory's These are 22 or 25 foot semi Dorys, with a fairly flat bottom, and economical to run--"mileage" on plane, can be from 2.5 to 5 miles per gallon of gasoline and considerably more at displacement speeds.. They use outboards from 70 to 200 hp. The cost of the boats is a bit inflated now--as many boats are, but start in the 30's and go into the $70,000 range for used boats. They are trailerable behind many SUV's and up to a 3/4 ton pickup truck for the largest. There are several other brands, including the Rosborough 246 and some other brands such as "Ranger Tugs"--now outboards as well as trailerable diesel boats. We also "Boater-home" staying off grid, or in RV parks on land when traveling.

These boats are fully self contained on or off the trailer, and we have never been turned down at an RV park or BLM etc area.--but work fine in other places. This is minimalist living--not as luxiourius as most RV's. But we cruised from Icy Straits AK to Key West, including both coasts from San Diego, Channel Islands, San Francisco Delta, Columbia River, Lake Powell, and other large reservoir lakes. We also voyaged on most of the rivers of heartland America, and the Great Lakes. The trailerable trawler, gets rid of the issue of thrashing up and down the Pacific Coast and several members spend most of the winter in the Sea of Cortez--complete with a water maker, and refrigeration run off solar power. Could you do this on $25,000 a year? Yes, I believe that this is more doable than in a water bound trawler. Many of these have done the "Great Loop"--taking from 6 months to a year--and some doing it in segments. One 22 foot boat has done the "Great Loop" 5 times--6,000 miles each time, and he definately spent less than $25,000 a year. These boats will have a head with composting toilet, portipotty or holding tanks. The larger ones will have a wet bath shower. They have a decent galley, and refer/freezers.

 

[JRO]

I suggest you join a yocals local yacht club as social members. Full members are always hard up for crew/friends. Having friends with boats is so much better than owning one out of the gate. You’ll be able to get on a lot of different types of boats and learn by being yelled at by your new best friend because most the captains really don’t know everything just like all the captains in this internet group. You might not enjoy boating. Sitting on a anchored boat gets boring if you don’t have aquatic hobbies and water sports, (fixing your boat qualifies as a hobby) so all you need is water sports you will never have the time to enjoy. I suggest the Southeast. The Intracoastal Waterway is as calm and warm as tub water and the open ocean is never far. There are great places to anchor because you can anchor anywhere in open areas… And it’s beautifully natural between cities and you have the option to dock in a city for steak dinner. You can run all the way down to Key West for a beer or get pizza in NYC… It’s all about boating in solitude of nature or “GIRLS GONE WILD”.