Old Boat Insurance...WHAT TO DO ?

[hatteras53]

Greetings dear shipmates. We have a 1981 that has plenty of work done to it in recent years. So Boatus just sent us a renewal demanding a valuation survey or the policy will no longer be in effect. In 2015 and 2020 we sent them a complete marine survey which I guess means nothing now. Each year they reduce the value of our boat by 10% and the cost stays about the same for the policy. At this point, they have our value a little less than the boat would sell for. Should we keep the full coverage or just go with liability only as they have us headed towards a zero value anyway. If the boat sinks, then i guess we are out of boating for good. I have NEVER had a claim in 15 years and my experience in business was that insurance co will do almost anything not to pay anyway and I paid 6 figures in insurance premiums. If our boat had a major hit we could probably pay to fix it. I do feel scammed by insurance companies to be honest. What say ye !

Shipmate Michael

 

[Delta Riverat]

I have liability only insurance, cheap too.

 

[Diep]

If you can afford to lose it and think the premium isn't worth the risk then go liability only.

In general I like to self insure unless the premium is really low or the potential loss would be too much to absorb.

It might pay to shop around with different carriers, you never know. But you probably would need a new survey.

 

[Delta Riverat]

My "bare bones" policy is;

BI & PD liability 500K
Fuel & Oil spill 1000K
Uninsured Boater 300K
Medical Payments 2.5K
Coastal Nav - 75 miles off shore

$750/yr

I'll add that it went up this year, used to be $550.

 

[Comodave]

I had Boat/US (Geico now) insurance for over 40 years but Geico has gone nuts, apparently. So I contacted Peter Ricks at Novamar. He is a member here, Pau Hana. He got us great insurance at a good rate. 206-350-5051
No affiliation.

 

[MVCalypso]

Bluntly: I have absolutely nothing good to say about Geico. Some of my reasons can be read here: Surveyor wording is a little harsh
I advise you to check your policy wording; unless they've changed the boatus/geico policy language since I had a policy from them, I suspect you'll find the real effective coverage on a 1981 vessel to be close to zero.

Don't walk, run, to another insurance firm.

 

[READY]

Geico also wants a new survey by my next renewal (2026). If I want to change I will need a survey anyway. Interesting as I have both my 1976 Hatt 48LRC and my 2011 Greenline 33 with Geico. Market values are pretty close but like the OP Geico put a lower limit on the Hatteras and yet still my cost is about 2x. No claims.

 

[av8r]

I received a similar letter from Geico/BoatUS. I had a survey done and provided a plan for meeting the surveyor’s recommendations—and heard nothing. After multiple emails and phone calls I still had no confirmation of renewal 12 hours before the expiration of the policy. I called another firm, got an emailed binder, and called Geico and cancelled the policy.
After 15 months I got an email from Geico saying they wanted my business back.
After 23 years and 5 boats insured with BoatUS I have nothing good to say about Geico.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Boat US / Geico no bid me. I did get the towing from BUS.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, I also kept the Boat/US towing coverage.

 

[slowgoesit]

For similar reasons, we elected to go to liability only insurance as well. Boating since 1979, no claims . . . . The insurance industry just lost another "Full Coverage, no claim ever" customer because of ridiculous policies . . .

 

[twistedtree]

For you guys with liability only, does it cover wreck removal? That could be a big cost to absorb, and would be in addition to the loss of the boat.

 

[Don L]

For you guys with liability only, does it cover wreck removal? That could be a big cost to absorb, and would be in addition to the loss of the boat.

It should, and also environmental fees. If not you only think you have liability coverage.

 

[Pprior]

Also very interested in what liability only covers. I think we will go this way because I’d rather pocket the 10G per year into my own pocket and take my chances. (Buying boat cash, not the end of my financial world if it sinks it would just be end of boating)

 

[slowgoesit]

Our policy covers:
Environmental damage, to include wreck removal
damage to other boats/structures
Basically, it protects us from losing our house, or other assets, but does nothing to replace the boat.

We're okay with that.

Careful reading of our last policy, which nominally covered only $150k of value, for a boat that would probably sell for a good bit more than that, we found that after you apply "named storm" deductibles, and reductions, "Depreciation" on electronics, and major systems on the boat, etc, in the event of a catastrophic loss, if a "named" storm existed "near" (very vague language as to what "near" really meant, as globally, a "named Storm" basically ANYWHERE along the Atlantic Seaboard, or ANYWHERE in the Caribbean, could potentially be considered "near" for us here in Florida), in reality, we only had about $70k of coverage . . . Which was less than 8 years of coverage at our new and improved insurance quote for "full coverage" . . .

Liability only is not for everyone, but for us, we believe it is the right choice.

 

[richspree]

Greetings dear shipmates. We have a 1981 that has plenty of work done to it in recent years. So Boatus just sent us a renewal demanding a valuation survey or the policy will no longer be in effect. In 2015 and 2020 we sent them a complete marine survey which I guess means nothing now. Each year they reduce the value of our boat by 10% and the cost stays about the same for the policy. At this point, they have our value a little less than the boat would sell for. Should we keep the full coverage or just go with liability only as they have us headed towards a zero value anyway. If the boat sinks, then i guess we are out of boating for good. I have NEVER had a claim in 15 years and my experience in business was that insurance co will do almost anything not to pay anyway and I paid 6 figures in insurance premiums. If our boat had a major hit we could probably pay to fix it. I do feel scammed by insurance companies to be honest. What say ye !

Shipmate Michael

Shipmate ahoy! Keep the boat coverage. Keep a public adjuster’s phone number and call them if you have a loss. I am a public adjuster and realize how important coverage is. I to have an 81 Trawler and broker for two years. An up to date survey will value the boat. Should she slip under the sea. I keep her in Washington state.

 

[Wtrguy]

We just received a quote in March from my State Farm agent for $2875/yr for a 43' trawler. $1m liability, $500k replacement, $10k personal propt...and $8000 for the TRAILER! Even though we've been using them for 30 years it kinda makes me think State Farm isn't that familiar with larger, typically non trailerable, boats. The biggest boat they've ever insured for us was a Macgregor 26.
Which begs the question, should I be contacting an outfit that specializes in boat insurance when we upsize?
And I agree that Geico is terrible.

 

[O C Diver]

We just received a quote in March from my State Farm agent for $2875/yr for a 43' trawler. $1m liability, $500k replacement, $10k personal propt...and $8000 for the TRAILER! Even though we've been using them for 30 years it kinda makes me think State Farm isn't that familiar with larger, typically non trailerable, boats. The biggest boat they've ever insured for us was a Macgregor 26.
Which begs the question, should I be contacting an outfit that specializes in boat insurance when we upsize?
And I agree that Geico is terrible.

I had Chubb for a number of years before selling my boat. Premium when I sold the boat was a little above 1% for full coverage. IMO, when dealing with larger boats, you need a company that doesn't have 95% of their insurance on boats on trailers.

It also helpful to document experience, previous vessel sizes, classes taken, and any professional experience (captain's licenses). Agencies such as Chub evaluate risk based on your above experience and obviously prior claims.

Ted

 

[Blissboat]

We just received a quote in March from my State Farm agent for $2875/yr for a 43' trawler. $1m liability, $500k replacement, $10k personal propt...and $8000 for the TRAILER! Even though we've been using them for 30 years it kinda makes me think State Farm isn't that familiar with larger, typically non trailerable, boats. The biggest boat they've ever insured for us was a Macgregor 26.
Which begs the question, should I be contacting an outfit that specializes in boat insurance when we upsize?
And I agree that Geico is terrible.

Recently my local State Farm agent quoted coverage for a boat I was under contract to buy - 32' diesel inboard, less than 20 years old. The policy covered hull, personal property (incl. electronics), bodily injury and general liability (not sure about wreck removal, that's an excellent point). The premium was far less than any quoted by agents representing marine speciality lines, including the firm often and enthusiastically recommended by a fellow TF member, which I had to work pretty hard to even get in touch with for a quote - a discouraging sign.

My in-water location is in Florida (bad) but 25 miles upriver from the Atlantic Ocean (good). No exclusions for hurricane season, and in fact the list of exclusions turned up nothing scary. Admittedly, the policy language reveals that boats are outside State Farm's area of expertise. They probably only quoted me b/c I am an established customer. Still, the coverage appeared adequate. (That particular boat did not pass a close inspection, and I moved on).

All insurance is a bet. They are betting you won't have a claim, because it's generally the careful people who buy insurance. You are betting that you will have a claim, because things happen.

All that said, I agree with self-insuring wherever possible, and always choosing maximum deductibles. That's because, with great respect and appreciation to my several friends who are in the insurance business, insurance companies exist to collect premiums, not to pay claims. The company always collects the premium. It pays out only when it has to. No judgement here - that's just how business works.

 

[Bud]

There are a lot of boats here in the Florida keys with liability only insurance or no insurance at all. Our county has a program that is facilitated by Florida Fish and Wildlife.
After a named storm in Monroe County, Florida, boat owners can participate in the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's (FWC) Vessel Turn-In Program (VTIP) to voluntarily surrender their at-risk or unwanted vessels. The program helps dispose of these vessels before they become derelict, preventing potential legal issues and environmental hazards. FWC will remove and destroy the surrendered vessels at no cost to the owner.
Bud

 

[SteveK]

Should we keep the full coverage or just go with liability only as they have us headed towards a zero value anyway. If the boat sinks, then i guess we are out of boating for good.

Others have said it, if you are OK with risk of total loss then liability only.

 

[Bud]

Some things to consider with older vessels, if you do find coverage. Read the policy, for an agreed value for total loss find out what and who determines if it is a total loss. Find out for a claim if "depreciation applies" if it does, it usually is 5% a year so if you have a 1995, 30 year old vessel and a claim of $50,000 you will get $10.730, so if you have a $10,000 deductable you will get $730 for a $50,000 repair. ( this assumes all the items repaired are depreciated, some policies exclude glass work on the hull but not the paint or glass work other places ).

Bud

 

[SteveK]

Bud, please explain further. Every year the boat is insured for $x value. At most I would not expect that value to depreciate much if any during the annual insurance. So if the agreed value is $50,000 then that is what you get less deductible.
Your description depreciates for 30 years, but you did not insure at the 30 year old value.

 

[Bud]

Bud, please explain further. Every year the boat is insured for $x value. At most I would not expect that value to depreciate much if any during the annual insurance. So if the agreed value is $50,000 then that is what you get less deductible.
Your description depreciates for 30 years, but you did not insure at the 30 year old value.

This for an agreed value type policy. The value the boat is insured for is the amount you would get only if it was a total loss (declared by the insurance co) The pay out would be the "agreed value" If the boat is not declared a total loss then for any repairs the insurance company has to do for a claim, if depreciation applies, that repair would get depreciated by the 5% a year ( some items can be excluded and some items can have a % cap ). Replacement or original cost minus depreciation. Example if you had a radar that was covered and cost $10,000 new and it was 6 years old then they would pay $7350 minus your deductable. It really becomes a problem with the older vessels. If your engine cost $30,000 new 30 years ago and they had to replace it the depreciated amount (5% a year) would be $6438. All that being said this information comes from policies i have or had and might be different for others.

Bud

 

[Bud]

Policy Type	Depreciation Applies?	Notes
Agreed Value	(usually)	No depreciation on total loss; partial losses may depreciate specific parts
Actual Cash Value (ACV)	Yes	Depreciation applies to everything
Replacement Cost	(until item is replaced)	Some policies upgrade to this for new boats but often limited to 1–5 years

This might help too

 

[SteveK]

Well I guess I will re read my policy for this loophole on depreciated cost replacement. Then except for a total loss maybe just liability makes sense. Wait, if you are found at fault, is the total cost covered under liability, or depreciated, leaving unpaid amounts subject to civil court.

 

[hatteras53]

MANY thanks to ALL of you for taking the time to give me useful advice. In the past few days I had an urgent medical situation that came up with my eyes and was uaable to respond here. From what all of you have said it appears that liability only is a better way for us to go. I will never forget 3 (not 1) people marching up to my business for an investigation before paying me 9k. Meanwhile, I had paid them over the years well over 130K. Guess I have been had by GEICO. No more money for Warren Buffet and I think overall he is a great guy. Cheers ! Shipmate Michael

 

[Bud]

Well I guess I will re read my policy for this loophole on depreciated cost replacement. Then except for a total loss maybe just liability makes sense. Wait, if you are found at fault, is the total cost covered under liability, or depreciated, leaving unpaid amounts subject to civil court.

I have not seen the, depreciation applies clause, in the liability insurance policy. But thats a good question.
I am not an insurance expert, I am just speaking from knowing my own policies, this may be different for other people, or policies.

Bud

 

[MichaelD]

Well, here's one good word for Geico: couple years ago I hit a reef off of Vancouver Island (not well marked, but still... I should know better). Geico stepped right up and covered the repairs, minus substantial deductible for parts, which very nearly equaled the market value of the boat. I have to say it was as painless as I can imagine possible. But, at last renewal they notified me that next time I would have to go through the valuation survey. I don't like it but I can't get too upset as it is just risk management on their part. Wouldn't you?

 

[martyopp]

Greetings dear shipmates. We have a 1981 that has plenty of work done to it in recent years. So Boatus just sent us a renewal demanding a valuation survey or the policy will no longer be in effect. In 2015 and 2020 we sent them a complete marine survey which I guess means nothing now. Each year they reduce the value of our boat by 10% and the cost stays about the same for the policy. At this point, they have our value a little less than the boat would sell for. Should we keep the full coverage or just go with liability only as they have us headed towards a zero value anyway. If the boat sinks, then i guess we are out of boating for good. I have NEVER had a claim in 15 years and my experience in business was that insurance co will do almost anything not to pay anyway and I paid 6 figures in insurance premiums. If our boat had a major hit we could probably pay to fix it. I do feel scammed by insurance companies to be honest. What say ye !

Shipmate Michael

First I will say that I don't think "liability only" is a particularly good approach.
We just sold the 1981 PT-38 Euro Trawler which we owned for 25 years. I forget who covered us in the early years, but for at least the past 10-12 years we've been insured by Red Shield Insurance in Portland OR. They do want a survey every 4 or 5 years but out of water only every 8-10 years. We had full coverage with 500k liability, environmental, 100k agreed value for hull, dinghy coverage. Basically the whole enchilada.
They have not dropped our hull value and kept the 100k for the past 10 years. And we sold her for 60k.
Red Shield did require an out-or-water survey in 2024, but the last survey was in water in 2018.
We are based in Seattle, covered moorage.
The folks we sold her to are also being insured by Red Shield. And they have much less boating experience than I have.
I've heard of insurers not wanting to cover boats over 20 years of age, but here we are at almost 45 years and still getting reasonable coverage from Red Shield.
Marty O