Oil-Bypass-System

[supertramp]

I change my oil from the gens all 100 hrs.My gens son westerbeke 15 and 8 KW.But for my old bypass system now no exist replace-filters more.
We will buying a new system. But what is your experience ? With the bypass system we are chance all 200 hrs?or later?
We are many time in the archipel los roques for 5 or 6 weeks and the gens are works all the time and we need load many liters of oil. The price is not a point for me but*the volume of fresh and old oil.
Norbert

 

[Chris Foster]

In my opinion (that is, this advice is probably worth what it cost you):

If you are running nearly continuously for 5-6 weeks, I wouldn't worry about going 500 hours between changes.* You'll need to keep the oil level topped up, of course, but continuous running is the easiest duty on the oil and the engine.

Flip side:* those of use who are lucky to get 100 hours in a year, with most of that over 5-6 weeks in the summer - yeah, we need to change at least every 100 hours.

Not convinced?* Think of those crab boats running in the Bering Sea on Deadliest Catch.* Think they're stopping every 4 days to change engine and*AC plant*oil?

 

[Keith]

If you're looking for a new*bypass system, check out:
http://www.lubes-n-filters.com/synthetics/bypass/marine-dual-remote.html
or
http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/
Good bypass filtration with oil analysis can keep that oil going a LONG time!

 

[FF]

Glad you are using the engine almost 24/7 as that is what does best with a by pass system.

I agree that the cont operation is easiest on the oil IF the genset is loaded at least 50% much of the time , and more the remainder of the time.

I would extend to 200 hrs , and send an oil sample , if everything is OK,, 250 would be next try , then perhaps 300.

The small reefer units on trucks are frequently run 24/7 for 10 days with great longevity.

They DO have oversized oil sumps , but that may be as much for indifferent maint , anf leeping the oil level up, as for contamination.

 

[Chris Foster]

They DO have oversized oil sumps , but that may be as much for indifferent maint , anf leeping the oil level up, as for contamination.

My understanding (usually pretty feeble) is that the size of the oil sump is usually based on an estimate of the worst case oil comsumption and the worst case servicing interval.* So for example, an engine might have a 10 quart sump even though it only requires 2 quarts to operate if the routine service interval were daily (24 hours in continuous use) and the worst case consumption was 1/3 qt/hr.*

 

[FF]

An overesized sump also makes cooling better.

Much of the engine internals are cooled with oil, the more the merrier , and with the sump for cooling , the more surface area the better.

 

[Marin]

FF wrote:

An overesized sump also makes cooling better.

That's right.* The Land Rover I bought new in 1973 and still drive today has a*four-cylinder*2.25 litre petrol engine.* But at the full mark on the dipstick the sump holds two gallons of oil plus a quart in the oil filter.* I was told by*friends who worked at Land*Rover at the time that*this was to assist cooling as well as ensure proper lubrication with the vehicle at extreme angles.

The Ford Lehman 120 is a straight-six of 380 cubic inches displacement which puts it at the upper end of the "average" size for vehicular engines.* But the sump at the full mark holds three gallons of oil plus a quart in the oil filter.


-- Edited by Marin at 15:27, 2008-10-07

 

[2bucks]

Mercedes gas V8's usually run 8-9 quarts of oil. My current one holds 8 quarts of synthetic and is recommended for 10,000 mile oil changes. The oil is still clear/amber colored at 10,000 miles. Now with almost 80,000 on the odometer I figured it would start to darken but it hasn't. And it still stays on the full mark after 10,000 miles. That's about valve job time on a 1960's Ford V8.

Ken

 

[FF]

My old 300SL Roadster had a hopper tank and 14 Q of oil.

The dry sump setup was similar to a recip aircraft engine , return oil was delivered to a center pipe in the oil tank, so the center supply would warm up faster .

With long use (or speeds over 120) all the oil would come up to temperature.

Nifty system.

 

[Forkliftt]

I changed the oil on my 8kw Northern Lights (3 cyl. Lugger) Saturday. I have been keeping a 100 hour interval. I used the last of my Delo 15/40 and got more for stock yesterday. Question is- I read somewhere that Bob Smith suggests a single weight oil for the Lehmans. I have twin 135's and have run the multi weight Delo in all 3 engines since we got the boat. We cruise the Gulf Coast so we have mild to HOT temperatures most of the time. What thinks the class about switching to a 30 or 40 wt. Delo. I would want to standardize to one engine oil.
Steve

 

[supertramp]

I think 15/40 is a good choice. I used this oil in all my gens and for my two Lehmann 135 hp.15/40 is good for all temeratures . We change the motoroil of lehmann all 200 hrs, the gens all 100hrs and the filters too. This talks the manual of my engines.

Norbert



-- Edited by supertramp at 13:33, 2008-10-08

 

[Marin]

Forkliftt wrote:

Question is- I read somewhere that Bob Smith suggests a single weight oil for the Lehmans.

The Lehman operator's manual contains recomendations for the types of oil to be used. All are single-weight although the weights vary by ambient operating temperatures.* The recommended weight for the normal temperature range in the PNW is 30 wt.

When we bought our boat I asked a good friend who's been in the engineering department at Alaska Diesel Electric (now Northern Lights/Lugger) for thirty-something years what sort of oil to use in our two FL120s. At the time they were relatively low-time engines. Without hesitation he said "Delo 400 30 weight, don't use multi-viscocity and don't use synthetic." We got the same answer from the very experienced diesel shop in our marina.

So that's what we've been using for the last 10 years. Now I have heard of people using multi-viscocity oil in their FL120s and according to them they've not had any problems. I have also heard of a few people who have switched their Lehmans to synthetic oil, and they say they've had no problems.

So I cannot offer any definitive reasons why single weight oil is better for these engines than anything else other than that's the kind of oil they were originally designed to use. But the people who have told me to use single-weight oil have all been very experienced in the marine diesel field so we have chosen to adhere to their advice.* I have seen fairly scientific explanations of why single-weight oil is advantageous over multi-vis in certain applications.* I recall it had something to do with the single-weight retaining higher lubricity across the operating temperature range but I could be completely misremembering this.* It was on the T&T list so a search of their archives might turn these explanations up but the T&T archives is not very user-friendly with regard to searches.



-- Edited by Marin at 15:11, 2008-10-08

 

[supertramp]

My operators manual says:
20W goes from 0 grad cel after 32 grad cel. ( sorry i am german and i reed with Cel)
and so what can i do? we have more temperature in the engine.
Other problem, in Vennezuela are not easy to by 20 W or 30 W.
Norbert

 

[Marin]

You probably realize this, but the temperature ranges quoted in the engine manuals are for outside air temperatures. I would assume the normal outside air temperatures in Venezuela are fairly warm--- in the 70s and 80s (f) most of the time? In which case 40 weight may be the ideal single-weight oil to use.

-- Edited by Marin at 16:04, 2008-10-08

 

[supertramp]

ok, marin but the temperature of air for my engines are in the motor-house. He used not the outside air .
Norbert

 

[Marin]

You're correct that the air used by the engines is from the engine room. But that's not really the correct temperature to use in determining what oil viscosity to use because when the engines are running the engine room gets pretty hot. In our boat with the two FL120s running at a cruise rpm of 1600 rpm the engine room temperature is about 100 degrees (f).

But that's not the temperature you use to determine the proper viscosity of oil for your engines. When they are cold, the engines will be at approximately the outside air temperature (unless your engine room is heated hotter than this). This is the temperature you use to determine the correct oil viscosity because it represents the temperature the engines will be when started cold which determines what viscosity will provide the proper lubrication at startup.

A Ford Lehman 120, once started and up to temperature at cruise rpm, will have a coolant temperature of about 180-190 degrees no matter if the outside temperature is 32 degrees (f) or 80 degrees (f).

 

[supertramp]

Marin , what do you say is correct.
We have the same engine but my motor are a little more powerfull with 135 hp.
The lehman 135 hp has max revolucion 2600 rpm. My max torque are with 1800rpm. This is the revolution what i have under way.But i think i can go without risk 2000rpm. With 2000 rpm are 70% from the max- power of the engine. Its a good relacion for a long range. What do you think about this? Please think the price of Fuel are not a point for me, it·s a present here -lol-
Norbert

 

[Marin]

The FL135 is similar to the FL120 but the base engines are slightly different. The design of both these engines dates from the 1950s. The key to getting the maximum life out of these engines is to operate them as though it was the era in which they were made. In other words, fairly conservatively.

The ideal operating range for the FL120 is about 1600 to 1800 rpm in terms of getting the maximum life from the engine. I've not operated a boat with the FL135, but I suspect that running it at 2000 rpm in cruise is okay. I would be hesitant to run the FL120 at 2000 rpm continuously.

What you might want to do is call American Diesel and get their opinion as to the best operating range for the FL135. They know more about that engine (and the FL120) than just about anybody so getting their advice would be worthwhile I think.

 

[FF]

"The lowest outside air temp is the temperature you use to determine the correct oil viscosity because it represents the temperature the engines will be when started cold which determines what viscosity will provide the proper lubrication at startup."

However IF 30 or 40wt oil is used all the time the engine service life WILL be higher than with the multigrade.

I would use a block heater when down to freezing or below , rather than use a multigrade.

The Gov overseeres prefer the multi grade as it does deliver better mileage , as its easier to scrape down by the oil ring.But there not paying for the overhauls.

Even in hot weather 110F,,, 40C the engine will have a longer service life if the block heater is used.

-- Edited by FF at 04:54, 2008-10-09

 

[Baker]

Forkliftt wrote:

I changed the oil on my 8kw Northern Lights (3 cyl. Lugger) Saturday. I have been keeping a 100 hour interval. I used the last of my Delo 15/40 and got more for stock yesterday. Question is- I read somewhere that Bob Smith suggests a single weight oil for the Lehmans. I have twin 135's and have run the multi weight Delo in all 3 engines since we got the boat. We cruise the Gulf Coast so we have mild to HOT temperatures most of the time. What thinks the class about switching to a 30 or 40 wt. Delo. I would want to standardize to one engine oil.
Steve

Forky, I boat in the same area as you do and I have always used 30wt in all of my boats(Shell Rotella).

 

[Keith]

When I bought my boat, the PO had used straight 30 (rotella) for the Lehman 135, velvet drive tranny and Westerbeke genset. Just to complicate things, I kept the 30 for the genset, switched to 40 wt for the Lehman, and Transmission fluid for the tranny. Also switched to Chevron Delo 400 since it's a lot easier to find around here. I'm in the Galveston bay area, hence the 40 wt. for the Lehman. However, they all seemed happy with the 30 wt. oil the PO used.

 

[clyde]

i have a gulfcoast bypass oil filter for my main, and send in oil samples abt every 400 hrs...if the oil is ok, then i change the roll of bounty 6" paper towels, add abt 3 qts, *and go another 400 hrs...for my genset, i use amsoil marine 15/40 synthetic, and change it every 2 yrs...with synthetic, i usually go double the recomended hrs for changing...they(gulfcoast filters)*filter down to abt 1 micron...normal screw on type oil filters are rated at 28 to 30 microns...i also use the gcf fuel filter...nothing gets thru it! have been using them for abt 12 yrs...no problems...oil sampling saves a lot of oil! oil does`nt wear out, it just gets contaminated...and the gfc filters clean it...amsoil also sells the oil sample kits...to change oil every 50/100 hrs is a waste of good oil...send in a sample, and see what`s in it...ask the lab to explain all the particulates in the oil, etc...clyde

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,

*** Your Northern Lights friend has his head in the sand again. Synthetic oil is better than dino oil period. The only downside is the expense. Would I use synthetic oil on my boat .. hell no. Its stupid in that the advantages of SO can't be realized because we don't work it hard enough. The gremilin in your engine on your boat is carbon, and synthetic oil offers no advantage in dealing with it. Carbon causes wear and the only way to get rid of it is to change oil, so my philosophy is to use dino oil and change it often .. a better way to throw money at your lube oil performance is to change oil 3 times as often and the filter every 3rd change.
*** All the viscosity improvers in your oil ( and most of the other aditives ) take space that could be taken with oil. I belive the lubricity of oil is supperior w single wt and engines last longer with higher viscosity oil. I once worked in a diesel powerhouse ( 1440hp Enterprise ) and it took all day to warm the engine and the oil with electric heaters before the engine was started. I use 15/40 lube oil here in Alaska but if I was in Texas I'd use 40w oil and warm the engine slowly ( a bit ) as in 5 to 8 min to 75% load or 10 min to 90%.* Keep in mind that lube oil tempetures warm much more slowly in most engines than coolant tempetures.
***
Eric Henning

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:Marin,


Your Northern Lights friend has his head in the sand again. Synthetic oil is better than dino oil period.*

Eric---

That's not what he said.* He--- and our diesel shop and every marine engine mechanic and specialist I've talked to since buying our boat--- said don't run synthetic oil in OUR engines (1950s era Ford Lehman 120s).* He and the others did not say that conventional oil is better than synthetics.* They use and recommend synthetic or multi-viscosity oils for engines that are designed for them.* They do not use or recommend them for old thumpers from five decades ago.

*

 

[FF]

Most of the research I have seen gives the longest engine service life with single grade oil.

The multi-grade does allow cold starts a bit easier and perhaps 1% or so better mileage from the thin oil being easier to scrape from the cylinder.

With a warm weather boat I would always prefer single grade.

Synthetic has far poorer ability to protect an out of service engine from internal rust , perhaps a poor choice for trawlers with extended non use times.

FF


-- Edited by FF at 05:48, 2009-01-28

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,

If " he " said " don't use SO*"*I think it's clear he is saying it's not as good as the products he advises one to use. My point is that there is nothing bad about using SO except the expense. Why would anyone say don't use it. If he felt as I do he just could have said " it's a waste of money " on a low performance engine or where one dosn't need extreem thermal flexability.

Eric Henning