Not strong enough for docking a bigger boat??

[bayview]

I often see comments that people avoid larger boats because of concern that they are not strong enough to handle the docking of a larger boat.

IMO if you need strength you are not doing it right.

A single engine boat is more problematic but a twin engine boat should be able to dance around without need for strength.

My instructions to crew has always been keep your hands inside the boat and simply place the dock line where it needs to go when the boat gets in position. It is the driver's responsibility to get the boat where it needs to be for initial docking. Once two lines are fastened the driver can then assist is any additional lines or positioning the boat. Even then the boats power can help

If you doubt this watch ferries or other smaller commercial boats dock. The crew never tries to manhandle the boat.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Two lines? One amidships should do the trick.

 

[Steve91T]

I agree. We are new to the big boat thing but we have a good systems down. My 31’ Mainship is a bit like a sailboat, so docking in the wind can be a challenge. My wife will jump off the stern once it’s safe, secure a live then walk to get front where I’ll throw her the bow line. If it’s windy where I could loose the nose of the boat while she’s securing the stern, I’ll just make sure to have a deckhand there to help.

 

[MYTraveler]

My displacement is 100,000 pounds. No amount of human strength (especially given traction limitations) is going to move it in any meaningful way. Fortunately, twin engines, a bow thruster, wing stations and good close quarters maneuvering skills make it completely unnecessary.

 

[IRENE]

Bayview,

I couldn't agree more. There should be NO body parts outside the gunwale, no boat hooks, no screaming. If the operator can't get the boat where it can be simply secured, then try another approach. Perhaps more training is needed.

For years we have watched the near-carnage at every marina. Just Friday morning, I watched a halibut fisherman push his boat out of the slip and jump on. He then remained in neutral and blew to the end of the fairway. Fisherman #2 got on the dock, pushed them off, and literally hurled himself onto the bow. Watching this hurt my knees. All this on a directed-thrust boat under 25'.

My wife and I once chartered a 29' Hunter (#8000) in the North Channel. At the "captain's brief" the head-guy-in-charge looked at my wife (#120) and told her to fend-off with a boat hook when docking. We kept quiet, but the only thing the boat hook would do is keep her from squishing her fingers and arms.

This is pleasure boating and it is supposed to be fun. If it would be beneficial, grab an old salt on the dock, hire a captain that knows how to do it, or invest in some professional training. The time spent growing will be well worth it to all aboard.

Be careful out there!

 

[jleonard]

Two lines? One amidships should do the trick.

YES! And please keep your crew off the swim platform.

 

[MYTraveler]

And a comment about using dock lines to control a moving boat. IMO, it can be very dangerous to try to control a heavy boat using nylon dock lines. Those lines stretch and can hold alot of energy. If the dock clean breaks off, the dock line turns that cleat into a sling shot heading directly toward the boat cleat. Best case would be that the cleat hits the boat and does some damage. But if it hits a person, not good.

 

[FlyWright]

Several times I've briefed the same....no hands outside the boat, no fending off, just wrap the spring line to the dock cleat and let me know when it's secure...then I'll come and help. Then the next thing I see is the guest stepping off the boat at the dock to secure the spring line!

Obviously I need to be more specific about NOT leaving the boat until I say it's OK.

 

[Tom.B]

My displacement is 100,000 pounds. No amount of human strength (especially given traction limitations) is going to move it in any meaningful way. Fortunately, twin engines, a bow thruster, wing stations and good close quarters maneuvering skills make it completely unnecessary.

Show off!

 

[siestakey]

Good thread bayview and agree my wife is 120lbs soaking wet. We tell everyone please stay seated and keep your hands inside the boat and to stay silent while we a re docking( the only person that disobeyed the talking order was my mother a few years ago I put her in time out). Our system works very well gets the 2 spring lines on and the rest is all easy

 

[dhays]

I finally realized this when we moved to a Catalina 36. Up to the Cal 29, the boat could be fended off. Beyond that, there was no way. For a dinghy sailor, it was a hard transition to make. Now of course, I don't even have the urge to fend off a big boat.

 

[MurrayM]

Several times I've briefed the same....no hands outside the boat, no fending off, just wrap the spring line to the dock cleat and let me know when it's secure...then I'll come and help. Then the next thing I see is the guest stepping off the boat at the dock to secure the spring line!

Obviously I need to be more specific about NOT leaving the boat until I say it's OK.

In the first summer we had our boat a friend did the same thing, despite me telling him that if things went squirrelly I had no problem backing off and trying again. Nobody's perfect, especially when climbing up the bottom part of the learning curve.

We he leapt to the dock with line gripped tightly in hand a part of me said, "Hit reverse, goose it, and just pull him in" but didn't. Luckily it wasn't windy, there was no current, we were almost stopped anyways, our boat is small enough, and he man handled it into our slip.

Sure was tempting though!

 

[GFC]

We do things a bit differently than some of you. My wife is my deck hand and she stays in the cockpit until I have backed in far enough to where she can safely step off onto the dock. The only yelling involved is when she yells to me "I'm off, Mike" to let me know that she's off the boat (I can't see the stern from the helm because of the cockpit bimini.)


I stay at the helm to bring the bow to the port finger pier so she can fasten that bow line first. Then she works her way down the port side attaching lines as she goes. At that point I go down to help with the remainder of the lines.


It's a system that we've perfected over the years and it works well for us. YMMV.

 

[Steve91T]

We do things a bit differently than some of you. My wife is my deck hand and she stays in the cockpit until I have backed in far enough to where she can safely step off onto the dock. The only yelling involved is when she yells to me "I'm off, Mike" to let me know that she's off the boat (I can't see the stern from the helm because of the cockpit bimini.)


I stay at the helm to bring the bow to the port finger pier so she can fasten that bow line first. Then she works her way down the port side attaching lines as she goes. At that point I go down to help with the remainder of the lines.


It's a system that we've perfected over the years and it works well for us. YMMV.

We do the exact same thing. Works great.

 

[Lepke]

I live on a 83', 80 ton boat. I solo more often than with passengers. I'm also 70 years old. I have severe arthritis in my hands. But neither age or arthritis stops me. Most yachtsmen don't take the time to really learn boat handling. They approach it as if driving a car with wheels.

The boat gets into dock position, the lines secure it. In more difficult conditions the use of spring lines help get the boat in position.
I usually dock with 1 spring line from mid bow to a dock cleat past midships. I have the spring fastened and ready to drop on a cleat before approaching the dock. I leave one engine in gear pushing against the spring and set my other lines. Not much different that how I docked ships.
If people would take a day or several days and learn their boat, docking would not be difficult. There are many professional books available that describe the forces affecting boat movement and how to control it.
In the hundreds and maybe thousands of dockings I have done, single and twin, current or slack, windy or not, I never had a thruster to use.

 

[siestakey]

I live on a 83', 80 ton boat. I solo more often than with passengers. I'm also 70 years old. I have severe arthritis in my hands. But neither age or arthritis stops me. Most yachtsmen don't take the time to really learn boat handling. They approach it as if driving a car with wheels.

The boat gets into dock position, the lines secure it. In more difficult conditions the use of spring lines help get the boat in position.
I usually dock with 1 spring line from mid bow to a dock cleat past midships. I have the spring fastened and ready to drop on a cleat before approaching the dock. I leave one engine in gear pushing against the spring and set my other lines. Not much different that how I docked ships.
If people would take a day or several days and learn their boat, docking would not be difficult. There are many professional books available that describe the forces affecting boat movement and how to control it.
In the hundreds and maybe thousands of dockings I have done, single and twin, current or slack, windy or not, I never had a thruster to use.

You are so right I have so many friends with many hours experience but will ask me to help them dock. this past winter we spent a couple days with some friends 3 different boats docking on the transient docks getting them to rely on putting the boat into the slip but not using lines to assist.

I like the Paul and Timothy method of teaching and learning

 

[psneeld]

Dockhands at marinas are so used to pulling boats to the dock, its hard to make it look easy because they just want to git'er done.

I try to manuever the boat to them and iften they yell at me to stop, one dockmaster threw me out of the marina when I told him it was my docking, not his.

But yes, no physical effort beyond holding a spring line should be necessary....but so few people can actually put a boat where it belongs, often helpers take it upon themselves to power assist even if they do strain themselves.

And in my experience with singles and no thrusters, you better have more than a dozen favorite tricks to getting side to in a current or wind.... and in/out of slips..... no one method works but for a percentage of moorings.

 

[siestakey]

Dockhands at marinas are so used to pulling boats to the dock, its hard to make it look easy because they just want to git'er done.

I try to manuever the boat to them and iften they yell at me to stop, one dockmaster threw me out of the marina when I told him it was my docking, not his.

But yes, no physical effort beyond holding a spring line should be necessary....but so few people can actually put a boat where it belongs, often helpers take it upon themselves to power assist even if they do strain themselves.

And in my experience with singles and no thrusters, you better have more than a dozen favorite tricks to getting side to in a current or wind.... and in/out of slips..... no one method works but for a percentage of moorings.

I need to stay away from the marina with the dockmaster that thought he was the captain of your boat

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Very good thread. Strength not required. Use of strength very very very strongly discouraged. We give a list of rules to all new guests and make it clear they are not optional. Even for us and experienced hands, you only do what the Captain tells you to do. You don't move from where you are on the boat while docking unless the Captain tells you to. Keeps anyone from moving right into your line of vision. We use walkie/talkies. We also use microphone and speakers and/or megaphones to communicate with dock hands.

Of course, on my Baby boat you're all within reaching distance of each other.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Plus I don't want to mess up my nails.

 

[Sabre602]

This is a timely thread. I am new to power (beyond small outboards) but had become proficient maneuvering my full keel sailboat. The Kingfisher is the opposite: all windage, little underbody. The prevailing wind blows us off the dock; getting out isn't bad, but coming in to the slip is, as my grandmother would have said, a bitch kitty. Donna and I are trying to figure out a system but the learning curve is indeed steep. Her safety is, of course, paramount, but I'm also sensitive to the fact that this is supposed to be relaxation, not an exercise in stress and frustration.

Off to practice....

 

[siestakey]

Wifey B: Plus I don't want to mess up my nails.

Especially since you do not do them yourself

 

[RickyD]

Docking a big boat

I had a 32' sail boat for 20 years. Upwind slip. No problems. Then I bought the 47' trawler. We had a double loaded slip and the 46' sailboat to port had a hard dinghy hanging out in the fairway off the stern. Normal wind at 1 o'clock. I had to spin in the fairway, drive forward toward the starboard dock, and get secured before drifting into my neighbor. Did it well the first time. Always had a knot in my stomach coming in. Only once got in trouble when leaving in a south wind coming in at 7 o'clock. I thought it would blow my stern more than the bow. I backed out, tried to twist to port. Very quickly I new I was in trouble. I had no choice but to drift into my other neighbors anchor, 10 inch scratch, pushed off of it as hard as I could and was able to get clear. I should have backed all the way out to port, but hey, live and learn. One reason I want a bow thruster. It would have saved a scratch. Oh, I also had 15 people aboard for witnesses.

 

[siestakey]

I had a 32' sail boat for 20 years. Upwind slip. No problems. Then I bought the 47' trawler. We had a double loaded slip and the 46' sailboat to port had a hard dinghy hanging out in the fairway off the stern. Normal wind at 1 o'clock. I had to spin in the fairway, drive forward toward the starboard dock, and get secured before drifting into my neighbor. Did it well the first time. Always had a knot in my stomach coming in. Only once got in trouble when leaving in a south wind coming in at 7 o'clock. I thought it would blow my stern more than the bow. I backed out, tried to twist to port. Very quickly I new I was in trouble. I had no choice but to drift into my other neighbors anchor, 10 inch scratch, pushed off of it as hard as I could and was able to get clear. I should have backed all the way out to port, but hey, live and learn. One reason I want a bow thruster. It would have saved a scratch. Oh, I also had 15 people aboard for witnesses.

It is a rule this has to happen with a large audience I think it is in the trawlers handbook page 66 line 6

 

[Steve91T]

The use of the spring line sounds great but Ive hardly been in a situation where there was enough room. But I will try it next time I have room.

 

[dhays]

This is a timely thread. I am new to power (beyond small outboards) but had become proficient maneuvering my full keel sailboat. The Kingfisher is the opposite: all windage, little underbody. The prevailing wind blows us off the dock; getting out isn't bad, but coming in to the slip is, as my grandmother would have said, a bitch kitty. Donna and I are trying to figure out a system but the learning curve is indeed steep. Her safety is, of course, paramount, but I'm also sensitive to the fact that this is supposed to be relaxation, not an exercise in stress and frustration.

Off to practice....

It is an adjustment as you say going from sail to power in that regard. You will get it. Just expect a few embarrassing moments and a few scuffs.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: To those struggling while figuring it out, find someone experienced and take lessons from them on your boat. Can be a friend or a professional captain. We'd done a 30' Bowrider on the lake and had that down perfect, but then bigger boats on the ocean were in our vision. Hubby told the captains to be tough on us and they sure were, but we learned so much, so quickly from them. We docked hundreds of times against invisible docks off shore just to get use to the wind and current from every direction and really learn what the boat would do. Then docks and I know people thought we were insane as we'd dock, pull away, dock, pull away, over and over. It was worth it though as it really prepared us.

 

[psneeld]

The use of the spring line sounds great but Ive hardly been in a situation where there was enough room. But I will try it next time I have room.

there are dozens of ways to use springs if not hundreds.

often springs are used when close quarters manuevering IS the problem.

 

[siestakey]

Wifey B: To those struggling while figuring it out, find someone experienced and take lessons from them on your boat. Can be a friend or a professional captain. We'd done a 30' Bowrider on the lake and had that down perfect, but then bigger boats on the ocean were in our vision. Hubby told the captains to be tough on us and they sure were, but we learned so much, so quickly from them. We docked hundreds of times against invisible docks off shore just to get use to the wind and current from every direction and really learn what the boat would do. Then docks and I know people thought we were insane as we'd dock, pull away, dock, pull away, over and over. It was worth it though as it really prepared us.

yepper perfect way to learn

 

[markpierce]

Usual practice for our boat is to bring the boat to the dock, then the crew member steps midship from the near-dock-level deck, over the gunwhale, and then onto the dock. One line between the two well-separated near-midship boat cleats is fastened to a dock cleat (boat cleat to dock cleat and then to other boat cleat) which secures both forward and backward movement. Remaining dock lines are attached at leisure.