Newbie on his way to buy a trawler

[Gypsy Island]

Grand Banks 36 from 1989 starting! in Europe on one famous sales websites at 105K$. And the market volume fitting on a stamp. Sure, all about doing the math. But still will a couple of thousand CE cert., it still ads up for me. For now.
If no proper solutions for the Europe, I stay in the Caribbeans.

I saw a CHB 1979 34 ft on craigslist. Fixer-upper.

Hm, you compare a 36 ft GB from 1989 with a 34 ft CHB from 1979, that's apples vs oranges.

What about this one: https://de.boats.com/motor-boote/1988-island-gypsy-40-my-9286596/
90 kEur, built in 1988, 40 ft, pretty good condition, located in France, i would grab my phone...

 

[Rodri]

Hm, you compare a 36 ft GB from 1989 with a 34 ft CHB from 1979, that's apples vs oranges.

What about this one: https://de.boats.com/motor-boote/1988-island-gypsy-40-my-9286596/
90 kEur, built in 1988, 40 ft, pretty good condition, located in France, i would grab my phone...

34 ft 1986. Asking price 27K. With updates for 15K in 2023. We are approaching different deal philosophy. Besides the length (34ft do offer more port flexibility from my point of view in Europe), the one you found with updates in 2007. Means, already being outdated. With my brief calculation (buy, logistics, etc.), I have with the one above mentioned still 50K free cash for all needed updates.
There might be still some possible deal breakers. EU certification e.g.. But until then I still believe, North America offer far better opportunities.

Sure thing, if I fail with my plan, Im not shy letting the forum know.

 

[mvweebles]

.....I still believe, North America offer far better opportunities.

Don't forget different electrical systems. US is 120vac/240vac 60hz.

You're not the first to spot arbitrage opportunities in boats. For example, it doesn't take long to see that boats in Florida appear to be much cheaper than their counterpart elsewhere in the US. A quick trip to Florida explains why - it's a year round boating season and the sun is brutal. At some level, you have to ask your chances of finding a super cheap deal from such a distance when there is a knowledgeable customer base within the same zip code as the boat.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Mac2]

Don't forget different electrical systems. US is 120vac/240vac 60hz.

You're not the first to spot arbitrage opportunities in boats. For example, it doesn't take long to see that boats in Florida appear to be much cheaper than their counterpart elsewhere in the US. A quick trip to Florida explains why - it's a year round boating season and the sun is brutal. At some level, you have to ask your chances of finding a super cheap deal from such a distance when there is a knowledgeable customer base within the same zip code as the boat.

Best of luck with whatever

Yup. A broker advised me Florida boats are 10% cheaper due to the sun/uv damage. I couldn’t comprehend this till I went there-I just about melted!

 

[Mako]

Mac2, if the sun/uv damage isn't bad enough, think about how Florida boats can decimate your health.

I viewed a 40ft trawler with my wife in Daytona, which apparently the owner had buttoned up tight in the summer months. There was a freakin' tropical rain forest of mold, mildew, plankton, algae, alien spores and what looked like giant kelp growing. (very colorful, huh )

I pushed her off the boat, held my breath and we just walked back to our car.

Even in an air-conditioned boat, or one with great ventilation, it's tough to stop the summer mold in bilges and closed cabinets.

BTW, I've spent a good chunk of my life in Florida, so I'm allowed to bash it - Ha!

 

[Mac2]

Mac2, if the sun/uv damage isn't bad enough, think about how Florida boats can decimate your health.

I viewed a 40ft trawler with my wife in Daytona, which apparently the owner had buttoned up tight in the summer months. There was a freakin' tropical rain forest of mold, mildew, plankton, algae, alien spores and what looked like giant kelp growing. (very colorful, huh )

I pushed her off the boat, held my breath and we just walked back to our car.

Even in an air-conditioned boat, or one with great ventilation, it's tough to stop the summer mold in bilges and closed cabinets.

BTW, I've spent a good chunk of my life in Florida, so I'm allowed to bash it - Ha!

Wasn’t even considering the mold issues. After visiting Boca Raton, I swore I would never live in Florida without being near/on the water. Seemed like there was always a breeze near the water.

 

[Rodri]

Don't forget different electrical systems. US is 120vac/240vac 60hz.

You're not the first to spot arbitrage opportunities in boats. For example, it doesn't take long to see that boats in Florida appear to be much cheaper than their counterpart elsewhere in the US. A quick trip to Florida explains why - it's a year round boating season and the sun is brutal. At some level, you have to ask your chances of finding a super cheap deal from such a distance when there is a knowledgeable customer base within the same zip code as the boat.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

One of my prefered jokes: You enter a market as a newbe. Nobody there. Means: You are the first one or the last one... Bought a Florida Class A RV recently. All decals faded under the Florida sun. EPDM and fiberglass with no damages. An excellent deal.
I already learned a lot right here. And my checklist is getting longer and longer. Which I very much appreciate.

I hear all comments warning me. And one thing for sure: Physical inspections mandatory. Which is part of the adventure. The 120 VAC no prob at all. I put a simple China converter between shorepower and Class A. Works flawlessly.

 

[mvweebles]

.... The 120 VAC no prob at all. I put a simple China converter between shorepower and Class A. Works flawlessly.

Might work fine......until something breaks. Where do you source new 120vac appliance when needed, and at what cost (fridge or water heater)? Or replace the battery charger or inverter? Or you want an Air Fryer or something? Or use your EU power tools?

And then there is the resale issue. Are there buyers who'd bypass proven European deaigns to buy a 40-50 y/o Asian built boat to US standards - enough to cover the enormous multiple of aquisition costs? If that's a good deal, the Europeans are in really tough straights

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

I already learned a lot right here. And my checklist is getting longer and longer. Which I very much appreciate.

I hear all comments warning me. And one thing for sure: Physical inspections mandatory. Which is part of the adventure. The 120 VAC no prob at all. I put a simple China converter between shorepower and Class A. Works flawlessly.

Did that converter deal with clock speed too? When I lived in the UK and Germany, converters didn't really work for appliances that absolutely needed 60 Hz.

Another solution I've read about is to install an inverter... which would in turn use battery VDC to power VAC/60 Hz appliances. I haven't studied what all might be necessary for that to work.

But that reminds me... I was adding to my earlier list as long as the edit window stayed open... but it's closed now so...

Add batteries to your check list. And an inverter solution to U.S.-spec AC power would likely mean you'd want MORE batteries... and that starts getting into battery architecture, chemistry choices, etc.

-Chris

 

[Rodri]

The one I bought, yes. Transfer from 50 to 60hz already in. I installed a third net for 220V on top in my RV. One power outlet in the kitchen. Most electronic appliances with an external charger always have been ready-made for both voltages.

Checklist: Batteries Bought the first Lifepo for my RV 4 months ago. Different world.

Sounds all like a great adventure, Chris. Hope, you like it too.

rodri

 

[mvweebles]

@Rodri - Sounds like you have this figured out. Buy a boat cheap in the US and ship it to Europe for $16k and all conversions are easy with off-the-shelf Chinese supplies. Might be a business opportunity for you.

Peter

 

[Rodri]

@Rodri - Sounds like you have this figured out. Buy a boat cheap in the US and ship it to Europe for $16k and all conversions are easy with off-the-shelf Chinese supplies. Might be a business opportunity for you.

Peter

My respect if you don´t like my idea, Peter. And I´m still learning here from all opposite opinions. But your last ones for sure not helping me any further. Never said anything coming close what you commented above.

 

[PhilPB]

Good luck with your boat search, half the initial fun is looking until you find what you want. The other half is making it the way you like it. After you buy it you put enough money into it to use it, then spend a lot more making it just right. It's an awesome journey.

 

[Slo-Jim]

Rodri,
I bought a 1979 CHB 34 Tri cabin in Seattle last fall. paid 15k. Had new fuel tanks, lots of good work done, but she needs lots of work that I am willing to do. Re-caulking decks, fixing leaks, needs new batteries, Replaced all cooling system components. Lots of little things. However, we are going cruising this Spring to Desolation sound for a total cost of $25k with all the multi hundred thousand dollar boats and we know our boat and what she is capable of. It’s just a function of how well you buy and how well you can take care of her. No doubt a RV does not compare to the complexity and requirements of a trawler. But with YouTube and the internet of suppliers it is a great way to live a dream when you cannot or do not want to invest in current vessel cost. Plus we have more teak than most folks can dream of! Ha!

 

[TrailerTrash]

Rodri,
I bought a 1979 CHB 34 Tri cabin in Seattle last fall. paid 15k. Had new fuel tanks, lots of good work done, but she needs lots of work that I am willing to do. Re-caulking decks, fixing leaks, needs new batteries, Replaced all cooling system components. Lots of little things. However, we are going cruising this Spring to Desolation sound for a total cost of $25k with all the multi hundred thousand dollar boats and we know our boat and what she is capable of. It’s just a function of how well you buy and how well you can take care of her. No doubt a RV does not compare to the complexity and requirements of a trawler. But with YouTube and the internet of suppliers it is a great way to live a dream when you cannot or do not want to invest in current vessel cost. Plus we have more teak than most folks can dream of! Ha!

Ha.... I bought mine in November last year, $20K and I've already put another $12K into her. I just bought the linear drive for the AP and have another couple boat bucks planned before I'm done for the first season. You just have to be content that the boat is a continuous work in progress. I don't plan to ever stop having projects on it, and that is fun to me. For others..... maybe not so much.

 

[MYTraveler]

Boats of that size / age / unknown condition often have essentially no value, since the capitalized cost of ownership (insurance, moorage, etc.) is typically a multiple of the cost / value of the vessel. In short, not worth putting money into, since a small percentage increase in the total cost of ownership could easily double or triple the budget for the boat. Sellers far outnumber buyers. Proceed with extreme caution before you invest a bunch of time and money that will dwarf your purchase price.

 

[RickyD]

The first boat I made an offer on was an 80's vintage CHB 42. It was beautiful. Great paint job, perfect varnish, teak decks, granite table and counter tops, dinghy, etc. My surveyor spent 5 minutes after going into the lazarette and came out, "You don't want this one" he says. What??? But I want it. Spongy decks he says. The Taiwanese weren't using marine grade plywood under the teak deck and after a time every screw had leak potential. So I went to the local yard and asked how much it would cost to pull all the teak and plywood and fiberglass it. In 2007 it was over $50,000. This is for a boat in Dry California not the wet North West. Yes that is the yard doing the work but skip the teak decks. Also, another one I looked at had spongy stringers, not a good sign. I ended up with a 1989 Lien Hwa 47 all fiberglass decks. Loved the boat until my income was dashed on the rocks of mortgage security debacle. Now I would mostly look for boats with virtually all exernal parts fiberglass and Stainless.

 

[RickyD]

Thought about skipping the insurance... Maybe not my best idea...

My neighbors brought their 32' sailboat to Ensenada MX from Florida on a ship. Theirs was ok but one of the others aboard was damaged. It cost him $10,000 in 2014.

 

[TrailerTrash]

Bottom line... what something is worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. Supply and demand rules the game. Older boats still have value because someone is willing to buy them. The reality in boat ownership, is that there is a huge ongoing ownership costs that makes their cost of ownership, much more than just an initial purchase price. But I'd use my boat costs as an example here. I bought a $20K boat then turned around and plan to spend another $20K to go through systems. There are high-dollar repair items that are possible and predictable as on-going cost of ownership. A boat isn't the type of investment that you make where you get your money back. They are toys for rich people and toys eat your wealth. There are people who buy new versions of my boat for $350K, and they spend $30,000 annually to use them. My boat is $40K, and I spend $15K-20K annually to use it. I've yet to see a boat that doesn't burn through money, it is just a matter of how much.

In ten years I'll turn around and sell it and whatever I get out of it, I get out of it. If it runs and operates, it will have some sort of value as long as there are still people interested in boating. But if I lose all of my initial purchase price.... that is ok because most of the cost of ownership wasn't in the original purchase price. And I'd argue if I have a repair that costs more than the boat is worth, it is still a wiser choice to spend it, and keep my boat than it is to buy a new expensive version. Do the math, account for the cost of money and this isn't complicated.