Newbie on his way to buy a trawler

[Rodri]

I wouldn't recommend doing both at the same time.

Nothing planned like that. I know my limits. Coastal cruising. I will give a trial. But nothin beyond.

 

[Rodri]

1977 Marine Trader 34DC. We are weekend warriors for now, so it is always the two of us and our preteen son. We have taken on another guest for a weekend trip also.

I didn't really know anything about boat ownership before I bought this one, so lack of sailing experience wouldn't dampen that decision too much for myself.

If you aren't planning on cruising the Puget sound area I would look for something in a warmer and drier climate.

A reason why I settled in Spain. South side. Africa on the other side of the Atlantic. California conditions. And way hotter during summer.

 

[mvweebles]

<$8k to ship from the PNW to Europe? Not in a million years. My bet is you're missing a zero! Let us know what you hear back tho!

My guess is $40k USD. I forget exactly, but I think the quote I had to get Weebles from Ensenada to Florida was in the $25k range (post COVID).

Peter

 

[Mac2]

A reason why I settled in Spain. South side. Africa on the other side of the Atlantic. California conditions. And way hotter during summer.

As a side note, if you ever buy a boat in the PNW, spend several months cruising the inside passage-known for some of the best year round boating in the world.

 

[slowgoesit]

Another boat to consider is a Mainship 34. They can be had in Southern Florida, in turn key condition for around $35k. Some really, REALLY nice boats . . . . But, I would think you'd pay at LEAST that month to ship across the pond.

 

[READY]

If you can get anywhere near $8k then my 48ft boat will be coming over. Quotes from Ensenada Mexico to Florida are well over $50k.

 

[Rodri]

First quote is 16K. Gut feeling: Will be between 12-16 finally. Insurance included. Florida to Spain.

 

[socalrider]

That's not too bad - are you looking in Florida now instead of the PNW? Seems like a better bet unless you wanted to cruise the PNW / West Coast.

 

[Rodri]

If you can get anywhere near $8k then my 48ft boat will be coming over. Quotes from Ensenada Mexico to Florida are well over $50k.

Quote is based on 34ft roro. They also provide one-time trailer. Not sure if also for 48ft. I will ask out of curiosity after getting the next.

 

[Rodri]

That's not too bad - are you looking in Florida now instead of the PNW? Seems like a better bet unless you wanted to cruise the PNW / West Coast.

Found a nice one in Quebec. But a bit of a fishy history. Owner put some 15K into the boat in 2023. And will sell it now. Asking myself: Why this? But not a bad market for now.
But: I have no clue if I can a temp registration for a Canadian boat in the US. Temp insurance included. (if Im such close to the Caribbean, I bite in my knee (as you say in German) not enjoying it at least once...)

 

[Rodri]

Another boat to consider is a Mainship 34. They can be had in Southern Florida, in turn key condition for around $35k. Some really, REALLY nice boats . . . . But, I would think you'd pay at LEAST that month to ship across the pond.

Thanks. Won´t miss looking into that type.

 

[garyj4101]

I came to stay on the forum, dear socalrider. And please always count on me returning if somebody takes their time to respond. I plan to fly over end of summer at the latest. And travel around. Nothing better to do the examination personally. Fully aware. This initial phase where I appreciate your knowledge avoiding common mistakes. And I will learn as fast as possible. Never underestimated buying a boat with all its complexities.

You can plan on spending at least 2 months in Seattle just doing repairs, if parts are needed who knows? as far as doubling the 17K, forget that, probably at least 5X.
How much for transport to EU?

 

[ranger58sb]

Quote is based on 34ft roro. They also provide one-time trailer. Not sure if also for 48ft. I will ask out of curiosity after getting the next.

I wonder how they tie it down? I think vehicles on ROROs are secured as if loaded on a flat-bed trailer, so wheels and/or axles are chained down. If they only chain the boat trailer down, there's a whole lotta vessel up there available to pitch and roll. A RORO hosed up the St. Simons channel entrance near Brunswick GA a while back... when apparently many of the "secured" vehicles... apparently weren't.

-Chris

 

[Rodri]

I wonder how they tie it down? I think vehicles on ROROs are secured as if loaded on a flat-bed trailer, so wheels and/or axles are chained down. If they only chain the boat trailer down, there's a whole lotta vessel up there available to pitch and roll. A RORO hosed up the St. Simons channel entrance near Brunswick GA a while back... when apparently many of the "secured" vehicles... apparently weren't.

-Chris

Thought about skipping the insurance... Maybe not my best idea...

 

[Rodri]

You can plan on spending at least 2 months in Seattle just doing repairs, if parts are needed who knows? as far as doubling the 17K, forget that, probably at least 5X.
How much for transport to EU?

West is 3 times more expensive. What the first provider said. So, that one is off the list. But really: 5 times the sales price for making it seaworthy? Besides doing an external assessment. Engines and the hull examined with a thumbs-up. Where do I have to shovel all the money into if hull and engines are ok?

 

[Mac2]

Two really good YouTube channels to watch for perspective is Flying Coney and Sailing with the Wynns. They are at both ends of the spectrum. Old money pit and brand new, state of the art, sailboat. The Wynns just threw in the towel on their brand new sailboat due to all the issues. And it was built by a reputable builder. All boats WILL break. Priority is to have tools and spares to fix yourself. It took me a couple years to learn my systems on my first boat. And you end up learning by things breaking. The big difference between the RV and boat is when a cooling house breaks on the RV you’re not sinking. Priority is engine and seals (shaft, rudder, raw water cooling system, etc). Oil samples for engine and transmission would be a must to give you confidence. Ask for the maintenance log. This will give you an idea of how well the boat was maintained. If they don’t have one-run! Your on the right track. Keep studying and don’t be afraid to ask hard questions. Very knowledgeable people here to help you. Good luck

 

[ranger58sb]

West is 3 times more expensive. What the first provider said. So, that one is off the list. But really: 5 times the sales price for making it seaworthy? Besides doing an external assessment. Engines and the hull examined with a thumbs-up. Where do I have to shovel all the money into if hull and engines are ok?

The multiple of sale price obviously depends on the actual sale price in the first place... and on a more expensive boat, it might instead be some fraction of sale price, but...

A survey "thumbs up" often comes with some footnotes. Like the boat won't sink, but maybe there are soft spots or blisters or whatever, or the engines aren't leaking oil but can't make WOT.

X year old boat. Hot summer climate, cool-ish winters. Galley and a couple staterooms. An engine or two. Maybe a generator.

You might need to repair or replace:
-1, 2, or 3 reverse cycle ACs -- and the associated raw water pump
- bilge pumps and pump switches
- freshwater pump
- water heater
- freshwater tanks
- galley appliances (cooktop, oven, microwave, fridge, freezer, etc.)
- sanitation facilities, including toilets, holding tank and hoses
- canvas
- interior flooring
- exterior decking
- a whole nightmare of electrical deficiencies
- a varying number of navigation electronics (that could start at ~$2K and reach ~$30K easily enough depending on your appetite and understand of nav systems)
- running gear
- lighting, including nav lights
- the windlass and/or the anchor rode... and you may elect to find a better anchor

You might need major service on engines and/or genset:
- raw water pumps, or at least new impellers
- hoses
- fuel, oil, and gear oil coolers
- heat exchangers
- fluids (coolant, engine lube oil, gear oil)
- anodes
- injectors?
- filters (housings and elements)
- fuel tanks
Et cetera... The short version is that if it can break, it already did, or it's about to.

And then cost varies depending on who does the work (you? is your time really "free"?) and how much cost you might incur for labor, tooling, actual systems and parts, shipping, etc.

I mentioned in another thread, my punch list of completed correctional projects is almost 800 lines long... and that's after almost 3 years of work starting with a 15-year-old boat (18, now) that wasn't in all that horrible condition when we bought. (My list overcounts, given granularity for some of the projects, but still...) I'm only now "approaching" the "optional" stuff in the remaining list.

-Chris

 

[KnotYet]

West is 3 times more expensive. What the first provider said. So, that one is off the list. But really: 5 times the sales price for making it seaworthy? Besides doing an external assessment. Engines and the hull examined with a thumbs-up. Where do I have to shovel all the money into if hull and engines are ok?

In your current phase, you are seeing the possibilities of how it could all happen if
a boat is usable enough without significant work. Often such a boat will cost more.
Fixing the kind of issues that old boats have usually takes both time and money.

 

[Don L]

Hello community,

my first message in the forum.

I always dreamt about having a boat/ trawler and - at least living partially - on it. In Europe. Time getting dreams in motion and make a test. I´m a complete beginner. But having all needed elbow grease and a good portion of knowledge to fix most things on my own.

Now my question: I saw a CHB 1979 34 ft on craigslist. Fixer-upper. Some water intrusion. Otherwise it looks maintained. As said - not a clue about relevant details. And - which makes things a bit harder - I´m currently living in Spain. And the boat is near Seattle. For me, it sounds like a wonderful challenge. (reality not always the same..)

Asking for 17K. Feeling: There is some room for negotiation.

The hull glasfiber. As the owner stated. I see water stains inside on the images. Windows and inside roof panels. Besides changing the panels. And re-sealing the windows. Is there a balsa/ wood core which is going to be rotten if not treated immediately after the intrusion?

The CHB is at present docked. But as far as I can see not in a shelter. Or otherwise protected.

Supposedly my first out of many other questions.

I´m very grateful for sharing your knowledge with me.

Best, Rodri

I hope it did/will work out great!!!!

 

[SteveK]

I went to sleep March 26th. What happened to the last 5 days? This must be April 1st.

 

[Gypsy Island]

Rodri, I‘m wondering if you‘re familiar with the European CE which states that a boat that is to be imported for the first time into The EU, must meet all the actual legal requirements for boats and you have to pay import tax and vat.

This belongs to new and used boats.

Even if you have a CE confirmed boat which is already in the EU and you leave the EU for more than 3 years, you will loose your confirmed EU commodity status and if you‘re coming back after let‘s say 5 years, the whole game starts again.

So for an older boat that normally means repowering, electrical modifications, etc….its‘s just not worth it.

There are surveyors who specialized in CE certification processes, do yourself a favor and just ask them what‘s fact.

 

[cfr]

Hi from europe. its a little bit different. if the boat has ce you can go and come as you like esp if its owned by you. Like a selee with a ce rating from the builder. VAT is different and more complicated esp if you are non european, you can even travel with a non ce boat because you are not importing it, so easy. for Europeans its costly because they have to pay vat once. the odd 3 years rule is somewhere written but never used acc to customs.....

 

[Rodri]

The multiple of sale price obviously depends on the actual sale price in the first place... and on a more expensive boat, it might instead be some fraction of sale price, but...

An survey "thumbs up" often comes with some footnotes. Like the boat won't sink, but maybe there are soft spots or blisters or whatever, or the engines aren't leaking oil but can't make WOT.

X year old boat. Hot summer climate, cool-ish winters. Galley and a couple staterooms. An engine or two. Maybe a generator.

You might need to repair or replace:
-1, 2, or 3 reverse cycle ACs -- and the associated raw water pump
- bilge pumps and pump switches
- freshwater pump
- water heater
- galley appliances (cooktop, oven, microwave, fridge, freezer, etc.)
- sanitation facilities, including toilets, holding tank and hoses
- canvas
- interior flooring
- exterior decking
- a whole nightmare of electrical deficiencies
- a varying number of navigation electronics (that could start at ~$2K and reach ~$30K easily enough depending on your appetite and understand of nav systems)
- running gear
- lighting, including nav lights

You might need major service on engines and/or genset:
- raw water pumps, or at least new impellers
- hoses
- fuel, oil, and gear oil coolers
- heat exchangers
- fluids (coolant, engine lube oil, gear oil)
- anodes
- injectors?
- filters (housings and elements)

Et cetera... The short version is that if it can break, it already did, or it's about to.

And then cost varies depending on who does the work (you? is your time really "free"?) and how much cost you might incur for labor, tooling, actual systems and parts, shipping, etc.

I mentioned in another thread, my punch list of completed correctional projects is almost 800 lines long... and that's after almost 3 years of work starting with an 18-year-old boat that wasn't in all that horrible condition when we bought. (My list overcounts, given granularity for some of the projects, but still...) I'm only now "approaching" the "optional" stuff in the remaining list.

-Chris

Chris, looks like that whe have a similar punch list. The Canadian billable hour was 120CAD. What I saw in the Quebec boat docs. Always 50% plus for labor. I doubt, thats cheaper in the US.
I´m more the 16h/ day elbow grease for 1-3 months (nice side effect: If anything comes up later, you know where to look at). And do all the needed pre-selection as discussed right here. All the above mentioned duties, I feel mostly comfortable with. In terms of DIY. Class A RVs a good prep. But I do believe, boats are another level.

My checklist is piling up. Also with your help. Good thing, if see the Volvo Penta/ Ford Lehman, there is no turbo, commonrail injection. Still the good ol steel. Doesn´t look extremely complicated.

 

[Rodri]

In your current phase, you are seeing the possibilities of how it could all happen if
a boat is usable enough without significant work. Often such a boat will cost more.
Fixing the kind of issues that old boats have usually takes both time and money.

Sure thing. A lot of emotions. See me sitting in a cristal clear blue/ sunny morning somewhere in Greece on my boat. But if it comes to deal-making I´m cold as a dogs snout.

 

[Rodri]

Rodri, I‘m wondering if you‘re familiar with the European CE which states that a boat that is to be imported for the first time into The EU, must meet all the actual legal requirements for boats and you have to pay import tax and vat.

This belongs to new and used boats.

Even if you have a CE confirmed boat which is already in the EU and you leave the EU for more than 3 years, you will loose your confirmed EU commodity status and if you‘re coming back after let‘s say 5 years, the whole game starts again.

So for an older boat that normally means repowering, electrical modifications, etc….its‘s just not worth it.

There are surveyors who specialized in CE certification processes, do yourself a favor and just ask them what‘s fact.

Grand Banks 36 from 1989 starting! in Europe on one famous sales websites at 105K$. And the market volume fitting on a stamp. Sure, all about doing the math. But still will a couple of thousand CE cert., it still ads up for me. For now.
If no proper solutions for the Europe, I stay in the Caribbeans.

 

[Rodri]

Hi from europe. its a little bit different. if the boat has ce you can go and come as you like esp if its owned by you. Like a selee with a ce rating from the builder. VAT is different and more complicated esp if you are non european, you can even travel with a non ce boat because you are not importing it, so easy. for Europeans its costly because they have to pay vat once. the odd 3 years rule is somewhere written but never used acc to customs.....

 

[Rodri]

Interesting, cfr. How can I travel without importing in Europe? Then US or other registered?

 

[Rodri]

I hope it did/will work out great!!!!

Many thanks, Don. I was expecting challenges. And sure I´ll get some. But what is life without a good portion of adventures. Northpole already discovered. If I see all these helpful comments and tips right here, I have the feeling that boating is not far from.

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks, Chris. Its obviously all about a balanced deal. Balanced between quality with issues. But issues, which are known before the deal and calcuable. I already have the feeling that with all the help and advice right here I´m collecting the needed knowledge to make a good deal.
My "deal construction" still is buying a boat with issues. And the spending some 2 months 16h/ day doing all needed maintenance. Nothing what has been described above I wouldn´t do on my own. The good thing with diy. If

Chris, looks like that whe have a similar punch list. The Canadian billable hour was 120CAD. What I saw the Quebec boat docs. Always 50% plus for labor. I doubt, thats cheaper in the US.
I´m more the 16h/ day elbow grease for 1-3 months (nice side effect: If anything comes up later, you know where to look at). And do all the needed pre-selection as discussed right here. All the above mentioned duties, I feel mostly comfortable with. In terms of DIY. Class A RVs a good prep. But I do believe, boats are another level.

My checklist is piling up. Also with your help. Good thing, if see the Volvo Penta/ Ford Lehman, there is turbo, monorail injection. Still the good ol steel. Doesn´t look extremely complicated.

Heh... we bought our current boat -- with "few" issues. One of the few was about engine rehab, known in advance, $54K... but negotiated within the purchase price of the boat. Other "known" issues were "relatively" few and not particlularly daunting.

Then the first AC went completely south, ahead of plan. Then the second AC started going south, ditto. The the windlass motor was discovered to actually be a ball of rust. Et cetera.

I'm replacing the water heater now, but at a much slower pace than you might be able to do. I'm old, I'm stiff, and access meant dismantling the old one first in order to get it out. Counting market survey (for a likely replacement), sourcing, purchase, delayed delivery... all last year... and then the actual work started a couple weeks ago... I'm approx. on day 32 of the project.

In our case, and within my abilities (largely DIY, but that old and stiff thing), a more recent boat at higher cost was still a better deal than a basket case and a boatload of sweat equity. Especially since we've actually been BOATING a bit in the meantime.

-Chris

 

[Rodri]

Heh... we bought our current boat -- with "few" issues. One of the few was about engine rehab, known in advance, $54K... but negotiated within the purchase price of the boat. Other "known" issues were "relatively" few and not particlularly daunting.

Then the first AC went completely south, ahead of plan. Then the second AC started going south, ditto. The the windlass motor was discovered to actually be a ball of rust. Et cetera.

I'm replacing the water heater now, but at a much slower pace than you might be able to do. I'm old, I'm stiff, and access meant dismantling the old one first in order to get it out. Counting market survey (for a likely replacement), sourcing, purchase, delayed delivery... all last year... and then the actual work started a couple weeks ago... I'm approx. on day 32 of the project.

In our case, and within my abilities (largely DIY, but that old and stiff thing), a more recent boat at higher cost was still a better deal than a basket case and a boatload of sweat equity. Especially since we've actually been BOATING a bit in the meantime.

-Chris

Pardon for the content confusion above, Chris. Already corrected. I met a good friend on his sailboat today. Custom-made. Bought it new. He said, major components average life-span 10 years. Wow. There is obviously a price sticker for living our dreams. I hope, the needed tlc is not affecting you enjoying your boat.

Have a good weekend, Rodri