New (to us) boat under contract; a few images

[Kit_L]

This vessel is Désirée. Major stats:

LOA: 15.24m (50')

Displacement: 35 tonnes

Beam: 5m (16.4')

Draft: 1.45m (~5')

Engine: Gardner 8LXB

Stabilisation: paravanes

Category B (a local classification, I think):
"B - “OFFSHORE”: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including 4 metres may be experienced." (from the recent survey; that is tough enough for us.) Here's the listing:

Used Gardner Powered Ketch Rigged Vessel for Sale | Boats For Sale | Yachthub

Gardner Powered Ketch Rigged Vessel. OCEAN CROSSING STABILISED GARDNER POWERED MOTOR KETCH. / REEF CRUISER No matter if it is a cruise around Tasmania, or a trip...Find out more

yachthub.com

After purchase, we will be on the hard at Coomera for at least two weeks we think. We are planning on installing a 200 litre holding tank. As well, we will install a 24V stern thruster, same size and power as the bow thruster, and if we have time, remove the foremast, sails and rigging (I want to think about this a bit more – it might be better to cut the foremast down, leave the boom and rig for pulling stuff up on the foredeck), and cut the rear mast down to a bit below the height of the stabiliser arms.

The idea here is to be able to go under the low bridges in the river systems that we have here on the east coast. If we cut the rear mast down to, say, 3 feet below the length of the arms, we can simply lower the arms if we need to, to get under a bridge. Apparently, as is, she does not sail worth a damn. The radar is ancient so we will probably lose it. We will have to relocate the HF and VHF aerials, of course.

The Gardner only has about 2,700 hours on her (the ad has a different figure; the survey another one again—who really knows). Fuel and water both are 2700 L; there's a water-maker on board. Everything else is in the URL above.

The backstory is that the guy who owned her first had circumnavigated in another wooden vessel and had lost his front windows in a storm on the way back to Australia. He asked the designer to build him a boat where that could not happen, and that high bow is the result. She cruises at 8 kn (at about 1,200 r.p.m., with the top speed of 9.5 at 1400 r.p.m., and she has a range of approximately 1500 nautical miles (fuel consumption is ~12l/nm). This is a bit more robust boat than our last one…

Notice it has a ClearView screen—my father (master mariner and CO of the Small Ships Squadron, Clifton Gardens, Port Jackson) and I used to go offshore in a "Australian Work Boat" (mass produced in WWII in Australia) and they all had these screens. I was about eight years old, I think, but I never forgot these.

 

[Serene]

That's Desiree. I haven't even read your post and had to comment. Beautiful vessel. I have admired her for some time. Congratulations!

 

[Kit_L]

Not 100% there yet, but closer. More to come.

 

[Blissboat]

Desiree looks appealingly salty, Kit. Good luck with the acquisition.

 

[Comodave]

Congratulations on the new boat. Looks awesome.

 

[Kit_L]

Désirée is being lifted out Wed. 28 for the survey update. We do not expect any problems (the surveyor knows the vessel well and surveyed it for the second time February 24). I will keep everyone informed! As well, I intend to photo and video the installation of both the new holding tank and the stern thruster. Still thinking on exactly how to go about the mast shortening.

 

[Serene]

Yes please, would love to see more pics and videos.

 

[slowgoesit]

Kit, Nice looking boat! And I have to love the engine . . . . That is mandatory, because it's the same engine we have.
Question on the fuel consumption though. Did you forget a decimal point in the fuel burn? 12l/NM?!? Did you mean to say 1.2 liters/nm?
Our boat is similar dimensions, but quite a bit heavier.
Great looking boat, and I'm interested in seeing pics and hearing more about your journey!

 

[Kit_L]

Yes—forgot the decimal point on the fuel consumption figures... 12 litres/hour @8kn, up to 14 litres/hour at 9.2kn flat out—so 1.5–1.75 l/nm, we have been told. Until we do a long run ourselves, we only have estimates. If it's less, I will not be unhappy! What displacement is Muirgen, and what is her fuel consumption at what r.p.m.?

slowgoesit, I'd love to know more about these engines—any references you can point me to, I shall be grateful!

 

[slowgoesit]

Kit, We bought our boat in Washington State, just North of Seattle. Shakedown cruise to Alaska, Glacier Bay, then lots of cruising in Gulf Islands, and San Juan Islands, then down Pacific coast and through the Panama Canal to Florida, some local cruising. We've put about 1,900 hours on the Gardner since September of 2021. About 12,000nm. In that time, we've run from 6.5kts to 8 kts.
Fuel burn over that time has averaged 2.4 gallons/hours, or about 1.4 liters/nm.
Boat, when hauled out weighs about 78,000 to 80,000 lbs. Registered at 45 tons.
RPM . . . Hmmm, will not probably cross over to your boat, because our boat has a 36" Hundested CPP (Controllable Pitch Propeller). But we normally cruise at 1100 rpm, and pitch the propeller to about 450 degrees EGT (Pyrometer). That generally realized about 7 kts.
We hold just over 2,000 gallons, or just over 7,600 liters of fuel if we fill it up all the way. That gives us a range (with no reserve of about 5,500nm.
We've only filled to the top once, when we first bought the boat to confirm fuel tankage. Even when bringing the boat around from Seattle, we seldom had more than 3/4 tank. The nice thing about large tankage, is that we'll probably never be held hostage to high fuel prices. If the price is too high, we probably have enough to go another 1,000 nm or so!
Prior to purchasing our boat, we'd never hear of Robert Beebe designs, Gardner engines, or Hundested CPP's!
In all 4 years, 1,900s hours, and 12,000 miles we've had the boat we've never had any problems with the drive train. Now Macerator pumps and refrigerators . . . . those are other stories!
You boat looks like a beauty! I love the interior design, and the Engine Room looks great as well. You, like us, have a stand up ER, and a walk-around engine! Great for maintenance.

 

[slowgoesit]

Kit, additional info:

Michael Harrison

Gardner Marine
msh@gardnermarine.com
Gardner Marine Diesels Ltd
Office: +44 (0)1227 719630
Mobile: +44 (0)7714 752317

If you can't get parts locally, Mike, in England got some parts to us in Washington State in as little as two days. Not sure time to Australia. Parts are readily available from the checking we've done, but other than one gasket, I haven't needed anything in 4 years. Oh, I take it back, I had to replace an oil pressure sensor, but that was locally sourced. These Gardners just don't seem to break if properly maintained.
I DID purchase a starter before we brought the boat around from Seattle, but Mike couldn't figure out why I wanted a spare, since the starter I had on the engine was from 1978, and according to him, unlikely to ever fail . . .
Previous owner replaced all 8 injectors, purchased from Mike in early 2000's, then turned around, and shipped the old ones (they pop tested just fine) back to England to be rebuilt. Turn around time was about 2 weeks. I have them on the boat, unused with the tools to replace them, just in case I ever need them.
The first required maintenance on the engine, (other than oil & filter changes, and valve lash adjustment) is at 30,000 hours, when the heads, and cylinders are removed, and all the O-rings in the cooling systems replaced in the cylinders, then reinstall. The book says no re-honing of cylinder walls, or anything else is needed except new cylinder and head gaskets.
Our engine has around 6,500 to 7,000 hours on it. There was apparently a period of time early on in the 1980's when the hour meter didn't work. The folks we bought the boat from had owned her since 1989.
Do you have the repair/service manual for the engine?

 

[Kit_L]

RPM . . . Hmmm, will not probably cross over to your boat, because our boat has a 36" Hundested CPP (Controllable Pitch Propeller). But we normally cruise at 1100 rpm, and pitch the propeller to about 450 degrees EGT (Pyrometer). That generally realized about 7 kts.

Perfect. There is an EGT gauge on this vessel, but no CPP—over here, they are considered "too complicated"... Even though practically the whole of the North Sea fishing fleet uses them. Just too conservative here, I guess.

For me, the ER is upright kneeling height, rather than stand-up, but like everything in the boat world, a compromise. It will definitely be easy to work in. But from what you say, that will hardly be necessary as long as you keep clean fuel up to it! From a boat design point of view, I think the height of the engine room is what allows our draft to beonly about 4.5 feet – and in our area that is very handy, because skinny water is common.

More to come. That image of your boat surfing is a classic!

 

[Kit_L]

And no to the repair/service manual—but I am sure I can get from the Gardner UK dealer you mentioned. Thank you.

 

[Kit_L]

The same Michael Harrison sent me two .pdf versions of both the user and spare parts manuals overnight. What customer service!

 

[slowgoesit]

The same Michael Harrison sent me two .pdf versions of both the user and spare parts manuals overnight. What customer service!

That's awesome! Was there a charge for them? I have paper manuals, but would love to have the .pdf version as well.

 

[Kit_L]

No, completely free. I wrote to him saying that I would be very happy to pay for a user manual, in the next thing you know these two files were turned up. If you PM me, I can forward these two PDFs to you. It's much easier to search a digital file, after all.

 

[Serene]

I have been thinking about your desire to cut down the masts on Desiree and personally I would be hesitant to do so. A lot of the character of these Moreton Bay Cruisers comes from the rig and I would be concerned it would completely change the look of the vessel.

Understand the sailing performance may not be great, but the masts do provide other utility. I also get the desire to access areas under lower bridges.

Anyway if it were me, I would take some photos and edit them digitally to see what different options may look like, before going under the knife/saw.

Would love to see some more pics/video when you get a chance. Hopefully the survey/purchase is going to plan.

 

[Kit_L]

There are a few more considerations: the sailing rig and rigging are all old—and the insurance company would require replacement before insuring.

I am not too concerned with character; I am a 'function over form' kind of person. But I definitely want to keep the rear mast (have to if I want to use the paravanes), but could shorten without loss of function. Definitely want to keep the rear mast boom, too. But I definitely do want to go under bridges.

Does anyone know if there is a database of air drafts for bridges? I know all the fine-scale maps that went down with the last boat had this information, but that's not an efficient way to find this out.

I will think more on the mast surgery, and will take images and edit them.

The final survey is next Wednesday; the decision will be made a few days after that. I will also have the serial number of the Gardner then, and may be able to learn more about its history.

 

[Insequent]

With regard to the masts, I think it partly depends on how often you need to go under low bridges. If its only occasionally then you could look at converting them to be able to be lowered.

I did a bit of sailing in Perth years ago on a friends boat. To get out of the river, where most racing was done, and into the ocean required the mast to be lowered. It was not something you want to be doing all that often, but quite manageable. I'd also change the paravanes so that they would hinge down to the gunwale if possible, but it could be tricky to do.

 

[Kit_L]

On the second-last boat, also a Morton Bay cruiser, I did the conversion to change the paravanes to vertical orientation, and wrote that up here. And if we shortened the rear mast to (say) 3' below the tops of the paravanes when vertical, then they can be easily lowered to gain that clearance when going under bridges. Making the foremast lowerable is an option, certainly. I will need to look at this more closely when I get back up to Queensland.

Removing the sails (which are old, as mentioned) and the furler might be enough to satisfy the insurance company—stay tuned.

 

[Serene]

There are a few more considerations: the sailing rig and rigging are all old—and the insurance company would require replacement before insuring.

[SNIP]

Often times you can get your insurance policy to exclude the rig. Might be an alternate approach.

 

[Serene]

The final survey is next Wednesday; the decision will be made a few days after that. I will also have the serial number of the Gardner then, and may be able to learn more about its history.

Good luck. Hope it all works out. Would love to see more of this vessel on Trawlerforum.

 

[Kit_L]

Thank you, all.

 

[mvweebles]

Perhaps tabernacle the mast for bridge clearance? If this boat has pasaagemaker capabilities (tankage, stout build, scantling, etc.), removing the mast and sails would erode value. Sails on a trawler make for lousy get home capacity, but are satisfactory "get somewhere" capability. They also extend range and provide a modicum of stabilization. I don't see it as an aesthetic or character item but rather a practical one.......if this is a passage capable boat.

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

Kit, I would hesitate to make major changes to the boat for at least 1 year, unless, as stated there were pressing issues, like insurance requirements necessitating immediate changes.
When we first got our latest boat, we looked at a lot of items on the boat and said, "Oh, we'll take that out", or "We'll change that", that after a year or so of ownership, we said: "Wow! The previous owners really knew what there were doing when they did XXX, or installed YYYYY!"
Other things, like the "L" shaped settee in the main salon, the one that was designed for the Spanish Inquisition, yeah, THAT one came out after the first year . . .

Kit, I PM'd you regarding the digital manuals for the Gardner 8LXB!

 

[Kit_L]

Perhaps tabernacle the mast for bridge clearance?

I will have to look this up, but I assume you're talking about making the masts 'lowerable'. This is definitely a passage-maker, and already has a considerable history in that regard (I believe it's been to Fiji, but don't quote me on that—as I know more, I will share).

I get your point about "get somewhere", definitely. I have a call in to the insurance company this morning, and I'll get back on the sales and rigging point.

 

[Kit_L]

Kit, I would hesitate to make major changes to the boat for at least 1 year, unless, as stated there were pressing issues, like insurance requirements necessitating immediate changes.

I'll be able to answer that question after I talk to the insurance guy this morning. The larger point that you make about not doing anything for a year is extremely sensible and in fact my wife has recommended exactly the same thing. More to come.

 

[Kit_L]

Update: we are now the owners of Désirée (I'll probably drop the accents when I use the boat's name from now on – I don't work on a French keyboard!). And, better, the boat is fully insured with Nautilus Marine, including the sails and rigging without any special additional inspection beyond the survey we just had done. We have decided to keep the masts, sails and ringing for now.


The surveyor wrote "the build can only be described as robust". This is good.

We are planning to build and install a 200+ litre holding tank – this oldish vessel didn't have one – and also a stern thruster. Given the design of the hull, a sharpie (I have uploaded a photograph of the hull shape above), we have to use a rather unusual stern truster which has two propellers.

Other things to be done is to make sure that the current house battery set up, with its two MPPT controllers and solar panels, and Victron inverter, are up to the task of keeping one of the eutectic refrigeration units going when we're on the mooring in Pittwater.

In addition, I am putting together a tender and hopefully with a boat collar on it both for stability and to protect the new tender and our boat. This is the company that makes the collars—the improvements to stability and manoeuvrability are startling (there are some videos of the designer/builder playing in the surf).

Boat Stabiliser for Small Boats under 5m | Kapten Boat Collars

The most effective small boat stabiliser is made of tough foam, so it can never deflate, and it keeps you stable, even when flooded!

boatcollar.com.au

And I will be spending a few half days with a mechanic who is familiar with the vessel learning all of its systems – I have found it takes about a year to learn them all in detail. And this boat has a modern instrument package which I have never had before (I have been using an iPad with Navionics up till now). However, my Marine Rescue work and training has familiarised me with AIS, autopilot, radar and chart plotter.

The rather unusual stern thruster, with its two props, will need to be attached parallel with the centreline of the vessel, and offset to one side for prop and rudder clearance. According to the manufacturer this will not have any adverse effects on its performance. Once I get up to Queensland again, I will take more images.

 

[Insequent]

Congrats, glad the haulout and subsequent stuff went well for you!

 

[Serene]

Good one. Glad it went well. Please keep us posted.