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fault_tolerance

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2025
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Location
Montana
Greetings! Long time lurker, first time poster! Our humble little core family of 3 are in the market for 50 - 60 LOA raised pilothouse boat with walk around decks, and a flying bridge. At the helm (a majority of the time) will be my farther, an experienced Bristol Bay commercial fisherman. In the past we've chartered out 47 Selene's. Our price range is somewhere around the $500,000's (give or take pending on what's included / condition). Something with 3 staterooms would be wonderful, but we're open to 2 stateroom. We'd mainly be traveling between WA -> Alaska.

We've been officially been looking for a boat for the past year, but have been keeping an eye on yacht world for quite some time. Our broker has sent a few boats, but we feel that he's a bit pushy, and a little shady. To be fair, he has sent us a couple of boats our way that haven't officially been listed, which is great (prior boats that he's sold that current owners have decided to sell).

Boats that we have taken to survey: 1997 43 (or is it 42?) Nordhavn, and 1979 55 Ocean Alexander (stretched). We've finally come to terms that we won't find one boat that checks all the boxes and we're open minded. Options we'd love to have: propane oven, thrusters (bow or stern), stabilizers would be a bonus, w/d would be a bonus, freshwater maker, oil change system, fuel polishing...You get the idea. Is it a sellers market? Are people holding onto their boats? Are we doomed to miss this season?

We've learned so much from everyone here and hope we can contribute!
 
Welcome aboard!

We recently shopped/purchased in the PNW. I feel like it is a buyers market if you are ready to spend although it didn't seem like a lot of fresh offerings were appearing. This was in the fall winter and haven't been watching as much recently. Maybe owners are mostly holding for now if they can?

We were very satisfied with our broker who patiently spent a lot of time with us while we figured out what we actually wanted. He was the opposite of pushy and not at all shady. PM if you are interested in a recommendation.

Are you finding major issues on the surveys causing you to back out? You have surveyed two quite different boats. It might pay to hone in on what you are really looking for before taking it to the next level.

You can definitely make it for this year but you might have to compromise on the boat or what constitutes a good deal. It depends on how bad you want it or if you get lucky with a unicorn knocking on your door.
 
Thank you for the welcome and for your insights! We may take you up on the broker! Every boat we're interested in, our current broker says we need to "lock it up" by putting down earnest money. Is that standard? We are kind of assuming people are holding off selling, but what do we know!


We have been viewing boats in person since Nov 2024 (which has been a bit of a pain since we currently live in MT). We have a pretty good idea of what we're looking for. We thought we had a pretty darn good boat lined up, but the surveyor found 3 soft spots (2 on the upper bridge, and one above the V berth around the hatch) and that's a red flag to us. Or, are we over-reacting?

Ideally, we'd love to buy in the PNW, but CA is not out of the question.
 
Our broker never pressed us to offer on anything. He was getting us ready for that point so that if (what we already knew was the) RIGHT boat appeared we would be ready to jump. Most the boats we looked at are still listed... On the other hand a few we weren't after anyway went by VERY quickly. So I think the market varies a little bit by segment. Newer models seem in shorter supply.
 
Well maintained boats - especially from builders with a decent reputation - often sell quickly and at a premium. Tough to say whether your broker is being honest or lazy. If you're not comfortable with him, move on to someone with whom you have an appropriate level of trust. To their defense, must be difficult for a broker to understand what condition-based parameters are acceptable to a buyer. Some want absolute turn-key. Others prefer dated electronics.

A quick google found this boat that ticks a lot of boxes for your list. Condition is always the wild card. Your location makes it a bit tough.


Peter
 
It is a buyers market at the moment but the sellers haven’t figured that out yet. Still, boats under 10 years old are rare. Boats over 30 years old are plentiful.

No seller will take you seriously until you make an offer with a deposit. A good broker should know if you are serious or a lookylou after showing you 3 boats. Serious buyers know what they like and don’t like. Lookylou’s like everything or hate everything.

I can’t know if your expectations are realistic so I can’t comment on whether you will find a boat soon.

The best time to negotiate with a seller is September/October. They are more emotionally ready to get out.
 
mvweebles said:
Well maintained boats - especially from builders with a decent reputation - often sell quickly and at a premium. Tough to say whether your broker is being honest or lazy. If you're not comfortable with him, move on to someone with whom you have an appropriate level of trust. To their defense, must be difficult for a broker to understand what condition-based parameters are acceptable to a buyer. Some want absolute turn-key. Others prefer dated electronics.

A quick google found this boat that ticks a lot of boxes for your list. Condition is always the wild card. Your location makes it a bit tough.


Peter
Click to expand...
Nice find! That hydronic heater would be a must for PNW and Alaska. There are a lot of items on OPs list they could add themselves at a later date.
Welcome aboard.
 
Sometimes I think an impulsive boat shopper comes out ahead because they just pull the trigger and are out on the water. For everyone else I think focusing on the core items you "need" and the bones of the boat should be the focus. Example if you need walk around decks because of a mobility issue that better stay as a must have on the list. However you can switch a galley stove from electric to propane so much lower on the list. A galley stove can get swapped but you can't add walk around decks. So settle on the core then try to check off a boat with the most high dollar features you want like stabilization, thrusters, new generator which can be expensive to add later. There was a thread awhile back where someone was tripped up on the boat not have a good windlass, don't let a $5,000 upgrade kill a deal. As for the soft spots on the decks, also don't let a $5,000 repair kill a deal on an otherwise perfect fit boat. Boats have tons of deck penetrations and over time the sealant fails so if you look hard enough you'll find them somewhere on older boats. If doesn't matter if it's a multi-million dollar boat or an old Bayliner, sealant only last so long and water finds it's way in. If the soft spot is away from a critical structural area and easy to access for repair then I would not be too worried. You just need to balance out how many "changes" you're willing to take on, each one being it's own headache. Maybe 2 is your limit or maybe 5 stretched out over a number of seasons. Good luck.
 
Agree 100% that no seller will take you seriously or hold a boat without an offer and deposit. But that doesn't mean you have to hurry. A (serious) buyer and a broker can still take time to see the offerings, gauge the market, and figure out what the right boat for the buyer is. The only thing stopping that is the patience of the broker and the FOMO of the seller. IMO it should be FOMO that pushed you over the edge.

When you've seen enough you can look at a boat, know that you want it and what you are prepared to pay. That's when you move fast to lock it up.

When you're in the looking phase be intentional about reviewing boats within a day or 2 after you have looked at them. Pros/cons. Write it down. Then when you narrow in, be very specific. Why is this NOT the boat. This is where a good broker can help you be real if you are holding out for a boat or deal that doesn't exist.

With that said, if you are all staying in Montana I would buy that Grand Alaskan and the Boathouse!!

We bought our boat in Tacoma and the boathouse with it. (Not the same location as the GA listing). We never thought about buying a boathouse but we thought it was a good deal so we went for it. Its only been 4 months but we couldn't be happier about being indoors. So convenient and much less maintenance.
 
Thank you everyone for the great info and welcomes!

A while back there was a post where a guy built a spreadsheet to weigh everything as to take the "feelings" out of buying a boat (keeping it more objective). He sent it to us, and we modified it to our needs and that has help a ton!

That Grand Alaskan is a beautiful boat but just a little out of our budget, and it didn't come with a tender.

In our case, we'd hope that the broker would know we're pretty serious since we've put earnest money down on a couple of boats; not to mention the travel costs of looking. He has a pretty good idea of what we want. We're okay with putting some money into a boat down if the price is right (lower original price) - if it has more of the key components.

The boat we most recently surveyed boat (aforementioned 1979 OA 55) has an asking price of $510k. To us, that seems high, and that did not come with the tender either, (the two surveyors agreed about the price) - but maybe we're in the wrong in thinking that? It was equipped with bow/stern thrusters, nice galley, decent electronics, 3 cabins, freshwater maker, repowered to JD's, W/D, 10kw gen.

I almost think the same thing @RedRascal regarding the impulse buyers haha.
 
Don’t get hung up on the asking price. I would not have my boat if my wife hadn’t threatened to kick my ass for not making a low ball offer (I was hung up on not being disrespectful). I had three surveyors on the boat (engines/generators, metal, overall surveyor). Those surveys helped lower the asking price substantially. More difficult when you have to travel like you will have to do, but my point is that it is assumed there will be bartering. I don’t recall anyone paying the asking price on a used boat.
 
Mac2 said:
Don’t get hung up on the asking price. I would not have my boat if my wife hadn’t threatened to kick my ass for not making a low ball offer (I was hung up on not being disrespectful). I had three surveyors on the boat (engines/generators, metal, overall surveyor). Those surveys helped lower the asking price substantially. More difficult when you have to travel like you will have to do, but my point is that it is assumed there will be bartering. I don’t recall anyone paying the asking price on a used boat.
Click to expand...

This is a great point and something we need to keep in mind. We went through one round of negotiations, but that was pre survey. We're hoping that once we highlight some of these 'short comings' (deficiencies?) that he will be more open to lowering the price. Although, after meeting the owner of the boat (he ran the boat for the sea trial) - we aren't super confident that he will! (Maybe I need to be more optimistic!)
 
I had two thoughts and Mac has inspired me to share them frankly. :cool:

1. The 2002 Eagle looks like a pretty clean, maintained and updated boat. (Looks can deceive) It looks close to your ideal. It is asking 10% more than the OA and is 25 years newer. I would expect a LOT from a '79 asking $500+

2. If your budget is 500 ish you don't know that the GA or the Eagle is out of your budget. The GA is only $549,500 if you simply HAVE to have it. Look at the boat, if you like it make an offer you are willing to pay. If the owner is pissed and blows it off so be it as long as you are willing to move on to another.

Everybody complains about looky-lou buyers but there are sellers out there who aren't serious about selling either. Only one way to find out.
 
Thanks for all of the food for thought so far @Diep! All of the comments have helped us with some outside perspectives.

The reason we would prefer 3 staterooms: father, and two sons would be using it. Without the 3rd stateroom we would be limited on having guests / friends aboard.

@tiltrider1 - That's our thoughts too. Glad we're not the only ones. The boat has been in the current owners family for a long time and we think they're having some issues letting go of it maybe?

Also, according to the broker, 2 or 3 similar aged boats (a group of them had been stretched and re-powered to John Deere's) - they all sold for $550 - $500 recently. That said, we think the broker put the bug in the current owners mind for the price tag.
 
fault_tolerance said:
The boat we most recently surveyed boat (aforementioned 1979 OA 55) has an asking price of $510k. To us, that seems high, and that did not come with the tender either, (the two surveyors agreed about the price) - but maybe we're in the wrong in thinking that? It was equipped with bow/stern thrusters, nice galley, decent electronics, 3 cabins, freshwater maker, repowered to JD's, W/D, 10kw gen.
Click to expand...

Haven't seen the listing, and I think you said it'd been stretched... and I think repowered?... but slightly comparing to size/price we bought in 2021 (although it's really apples to oranges)... that price for that age seems about $200-300K too high, to me.

-Chris
 
We think it's about $100k too high. Again, it's a nice boat, (updated galley, newer fridge, newer Force 10, granite...), tanks were swapped when re-powered, lots of space. It's "advertised" at 70k dry weight (which also seems high for me compared to what else is out there).

There isn't a listing because the broker knows the family and the broker sent it our way.
 
fault_tolerance said:
We think it's about $100k too high. Again, it's a nice boat, (updated galley, newer fridge, newer Force 10, granite...), tanks were swapped when re-powered, lots of space. It's "advertised" at 70k dry weight (which also seems high for me compared to what else is out there).

There isn't a listing because the broker knows the family and the broker sent it our way.
Click to expand...
I'm the one who sent you the spreadsheet. Glad it's been of use! That said, Make an offer on the boat for $449k. The seller can either Accept your offer, Decline your offer, or come back with a Counter Offer. No matter what the seller does, you have a better understanding of where you stand.
A tender for that size boat is max $25k. Water maker, 4.5k. Don't let the small things get in the way of being out on the water. Hint: It's a personal judgement call as to whether or not a thing is a small thing, or a BIG thing!
I am thinking that aside from price, this boat just didn't "feel" like the right one . . . if that's the case, move on.
Best of luck in finding the right boat, for a price you can live with!
 
slowgoesit said:
I'm the one who sent you the spreadsheet. Glad it's been of use! That said, Make an offer on the boat for $449k. The seller can either Accept your offer, Decline your offer, or come back with a Counter Offer. No matter what the seller does, you have a better understanding of where you stand.
A tender for that size boat is max $25k. Water maker, 4.5k. Don't let the small things get in the way of being out on the water. Hint: It's a personal judgement call as to whether or not a thing is a small thing, or a BIG thing!
I am thinking that aside from price, this boat just didn't "feel" like the right one . . . if that's the case, move on.
Best of luck in finding the right boat, for a price you can live with!
Click to expand...
Hey! Yes, thank you so much! It was a lot of help! That's a good point about going at $449! It has a water maker, and has all of our "needs" and most of our "would be nice to have". We have a tender lined up (owners are providing a little credit) - but still we think the price is pretty high. I appreciate everyone's thoughts / opinions on it. We are surprised there isn't much in the $300 - $400 range within our parameters (that's on the west coast) - which would leave us more room for insurance, moorage....all that.
 
fault_tolerance said:
Hey! Yes, thank you so much! It was a lot of help! That's a good point about going at $449!
Click to expand...

FWIW... which might not be much... :)

If they're asking $510K and you think it's priced "only" $100K too high... I think I'd be more likely to first offer $375-ish or some such. (Remembering I think it's maybe a full $200-300K too high, although that's without much facts and sight unseen... and also remember it's a 46-year-old boat). And then I'd expect to find some more subtractions during the survey/sea trial process.

(General note: sellers often don't recover costs for any/most of their improvements over time.)

The risk, of course, is that if you decided you really want that boat, an offer that low might just sour the whole relationship right up front, become non-recoverable...

But then again, if your only "sorta" want that boat, and since there are other boats out there somewhere... maybe that risk would be worth it. Or not... :)

(Edit: Of course I'm sometimes a bit free and easy with other folks' money... )

-Chris
 
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I think the boat is likely worth $300-$350 best case. Most of those upgrades mentioned are not that costly and with an old boat necessary just to keep it marketable. As an owner of an older boat I can tell you that it is exceedingly difficult to get pricing much above $250-$300k regardless. Also i would be very surprised if you can get insurance to cover anywhere near the price range discussed. Insurers don't seem to care about the value assessment by a surveyor. Have you received any insurance quotes?
 
I don't put much stock in survey (or home) appraisals. There is a reason they want to know the offer on the way in. You can usually find comps to tell the story you need to.
 
@READY - That's a great point about keeping up to date to stay marketable. The boat has been in the family since I think 1990 (the wife's father purchased it) - so they're 'keen' to the boat if you get my drift (which I also think is why it's priced high). We viewed the same boat, sans the stretch, repowering, and upkeep, and they're going for $225 - $325.

The surveyor we had was sharp and has been in the marine industry most of his life, and his father was in the marine industry as well. If not for him, we wouldn't have known about the 3 soft spots. (They replaced the steak with that soft walkable material).

We have not yet received a quote for insurance, we're in the process of trying to find one / a quote. |

@ranger58sb - I do think it's pretty high, but unobjectively, it checks several of our boxes for "wants" and "it would be nice to haves". It's pretty turn key and only needs a few minor things. Again, where's the trade off of buying a vessel that's a less expensive, but needs more work.
 
Everyone has made great points about a boat 45 years old. Unfortunately for you, if the owner is as attached as you say, the boat will have to sit on the market a long time (years maybe) before lowering the price. If you watch the boat market long enough, you will see boats that bounce around from brokerage to brokerage for years before the price finally gets lowered. I could tell you a hum dinger on a boat I “purchased” only to have the deal fall through and watch the boat sit on the market for several months. The owner easily paid twice as much in moorage, maintenance, and insurance than the price difference he jacked the price up on me (around 20k). We found a better boat. Be patient, the right boat will find you.

PS: All boats are the right boat.
 
@Mac2 - You're right, it is unfortunate for us. If we don't buy the boat, they'll probably keep just keep it. It's not even on the market to begin with haha. For them, the boat is working great and probably won't fix the soft spots, but as a buyer...

We found this nice little water spot above a window in the saloon...Maybe we do need to be a bit more patient, but time isn't always on our side.

The broker texted us today almost boasting about the survey 😬🤣
1000042340.jpg
 
Okay. Last pic from PP showing window trim has really prompted me to comment even though it's unfair given the sparse information.

This boat is priced as if it's COVID times. It will take the owner a year or two to come down to earth. Maybe.

Peter
 

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I'll join the chorus.

Please go look at the 2 boats up thread to see what boats sniffing around $500k can look like. You are a serious buyer, you have taken boats to survey and you don't need to feel guilty looking, even if you think they are (a little) over budget. It is prudent as a legitimate buyer to look at boats (reasonably) outside your range in both directions to feel out the market.

If you have a broker it is their job to arrange viewings and help you look for as long as you want/need. Yours is going to be bummed because they started smelling the payday of a one-sided deal. But that is the risk a broker takes in a commission industry. He can keep working for it. Or he can quit you. Or you can quit him. Thats the business.

Even the best brokers are not fiduciaries with your money. Even if your broker is 100% within ethical bounds you need to keep in mind their motivations and incentives. They come out best when they work both sides of a deal, you buy as soon as possible, (ideally the first boat you look at), and when you pay at the top of your budget (good deal or bad, makes no difference).

End of the day, even with a great broker, the only person 100% looking out for you is you.
 
A couple of other points I'd like to make, that have been touched on here a little.
If items have been installed to replace failed items, that can be a "Nice to Have", but doesn't represent a "value" at price paid. Example. New Northern Lights Generator installed for total price (genny + install) of $25k, so seller wants $25k more for the boat than comparable boats. . . . That's not how it works.
Typically, installed items on a boat are expected to work. If they are brand new, they may make the boat more desirable, but typically only add a little to the value of the boat.
 
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