New Helmsman model - 38 Sedan

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Nick14

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Helmsman 38 Sedan
I can now share some details of my new Helmsman build. The boat will be a new model for Helmsman, the 38 Sedan, essentially a 2'3" stretch of the previous 37 Sedan.

I originally contacted Helmsman about the 37 Sedan, and was going down the road to ordering one. Having easy access all around the boat, with full walk-around side decks, was an absolute must-have. I know most people prefer more cabin space, but my priorities are the opposite. It's just my wife and I that ever use our boats (and mostly, me single-handing), and I want easy, single-level access anywhere on the boat rather than more cabin space.

Especially as the Admiral and I continue not-so-gracefully aging, and the realities of arthritis and other decrepitudes become increasingly larger parts of (and impediments to) life, being able to easily access all parts of a boat, for line handling, docking, hanging fenders - and fending off impending impacts with hard or expensive objects - without having to climb stairs or ladders, is important to me.

I realized that the difference between the 37 Sedan and 38E Pilothouse was that while the hull underbody (waterline down) was identical on both boats, the 37 Sedan had the hull blocked off 2'3" from the aft end which created essentially an integral 'swim platform' hull extension.

I asked Scott Helker if they could simply build a Sedan on the exact same hull as the 38E, removing the block and not having the swim platform extension but adding 2'3" to the hull above the waterline (and then using a bolt-on swim platform), and extending the cabin and flybridge hardtop by the same amount.

Being extremely accommodating and flexible, Scott discussed it with the yard and agreed to do it. It will replace the previous 37 Sedan in their lineup.

Scott was also very amenable to obliging a few other customization requests.

First, I was interested in a custom interior layout. Instead of the standard 2-stateroom layout, it will have a single stateroom, which allows both a larger stateroom as well as more head and shower space (and more room for storage in the engine room).

A bigger layout change is in the salon. We wanted two opposed settees in the salon, L-shaped (convertible) with table across from a straight settee. This is the layout that works best for us, both for the few times we have guests on board (only for drinks and conversation), and for the two of us to be able to stretch out across from each other and curl up with books while still being able to easily talk. The galley is relocated to port forward, and is now L-shaped (out of the way of the conversation area, but still easy access for serving food, and for me to grab a bite or drink when underway). The standard layout has a U-shaped settee across from the galley, and another small seating area across from the helm station. Scott accommodated the interior layout I drew and asked for.

The inspiration for this interior layout is not mine. This is essentially the layout of the old Grand Banks 36 Europa (and North Pacific 38 Sedan). We always loved the GB36 Europa, I've looked for one at various times in the past. But they've been out of production for a while, and hard to find. I wanted a new boat that basically had that interior layout.

Another customization is power. We like the ability to cruise in the teens, semi-displacement speeds. Mostly because the Admiral can't stand going 7 knots. Also, with the 3-5 knot currents in places in our area, unless one times the tides it could be slow going at full displacement speeds. The boat is being built with a 550 hp Cummins (6.7), which Scott estimates should be able to achieve and sustain 15-17 knots.

We also plan to experiment with a Sharrow propellor on our boat. The Sharrow is an unconventional design (using essentially open 'loops', like Mobius strips, instead of solid blades). This has the effect of largely eliminating tip vortices, and thus cavitation. Performance testing so far shows substantial increases in efficiency compared with conventional props, both increased speed and fuel economy.

We signed the deal a couple of months ago, and hull construction started last week. Completion is targeted for next April 2023.

A photoshop rendering of what the completed boat should look like, as well as the interior layout, are below.

The adventure begins.
 

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That's pretty cool. And it says quite a lot for Helmsman that they're willing to say "hmm... yeah, that shouldn't be a big deal to do" instead of the much more typical "no, that's not what's in the catalog, sorry".
 
A brilliant customization.
 
That is a seriously good looking and functional customization. Those lines are fantastic. I heard about this new boat from Scott, but did not fully fathom all the components of it until you put it together. The plans and photos help. And it is genius. Well done, I say!



This is the Europa form of the Grand Banks done in Helmsman style. Others will have to explain why GB went a different direction, but the market dictates these things, I guess (said the living fossil).



I was amused by your decision to put significant power into the boat. What you call the Admiral, I call the CEO, and they have the same issue. For me it is the journey. For her, it is the destination. Based on just this evening's conversation, that is going to be a challenge when we have our 38E (compared to our nimble Ranger 29CB).



Still, this is a reminder of the Helmsman superpower. The ability to listen to the customer, what their wants and desires are, and to make the modifications necessary to meet them. Rather than requiring that the customer modify their wants and desires to the existing design.



Indeed, we were in discussions this winter with Scott about a serious modification of the 38e (what we called the PNW Edition) before the used Helmsman we are slated to buy (fingers crossed) fell into our laps. I may take the risk of posting this idea on a future event just to get shelled by current Helmsman 38(e) owners.


Congrats. No, the adventure does not begin, it just continues.



Jeff
 
That is a seriously good looking and functional customization. Those lines are fantastic. I heard about this new boat from Scott, but did not fully fathom all the components of it until you put it together. The plans and photos help. And it is genius. Well done, I say!

This is the Europa form of the Grand Banks done in Helmsman style. Others will have to explain why GB went a different direction, but the market dictates these things, I guess (said the living fossil).

I was amused by your decision to put significant power into the boat. What you call the Admiral, I call the CEO, and they have the same issue. For me it is the journey. For her, it is the destination. Based on just this evening's conversation, that is going to be a challenge when we have our 38E (compared to our nimble Ranger 29CB).

Still, this is a reminder of the Helmsman superpower. The ability to listen to the customer, what their wants and desires are, and to make the modifications necessary to meet them. Rather than requiring that the customer modify their wants and desires to the existing design.

Indeed, we were in discussions this winter with Scott about a serious modification of the 38e (what we called the PNW Edition) before the used Helmsman we are slated to buy (fingers crossed) fell into our laps. I may take the risk of posting this idea on a future event just to get shelled by current Helmsman 38(e) owners.

Congrats. No, the adventure does not begin, it just continues.

Jeff

That's pretty cool. And it says quite a lot for Helmsman that they're willing to say "hmm... yeah, that shouldn't be a big deal to do" instead of the much more typical "no, that's not what's in the catalog, sorry".

A brilliant customization.

Thank you very much!!! To say that I'm excited about the boat would be a massive understatement.

I'm grateful to and impressed with Scott's and Helmsman's willingness to accommodate my requests with what is basically a new model. Structurally and dimensionally, as well as interior layout and powerplant. Though largely based on an existing model, many yards would consider this a custom build. I've had new boats built before from American manufacturers, but Helmsman has been, by far, the most accommodating and willing to work with me.

@Hydraulicjump, as you said, it speaks volumes and so well to Scott's willingness and ability to listen to customers and find ways to accommodate their requests, with a high-quality yet fairly priced product. Most manufacturers are not willing to do this, because it's easier and more profitable (in the short term) for them to crank out what they usually do with minimal changes. I think Helmsman's approach is (obviously, selfishly for me) far better. It builds the kind of customer loyalty that no advertising can buy. I think it's also smart business, a strategic move to introduce a new model that they think will sell better than the previous one. It's rare to have a true win-win (or find a business that isn't obsessively focused on maximizing short-term profits), but I think Scott and Helmsman are rare in that regard.

@Hydraulicjump, I'm with you on liking the old GB Europa style, and with apparently similar Admiral/CEO situations (and for being a fellow living fossil - I'm a curmudgeon and proud of it).

Regarding the old GB style, the 'market' of buyer demand dictated maximizing interior space. So many boat builders and salespeople have commented to me about the boat show 'wow' factor, of a couple walking onto a boat and being dazzled by the amount of interior space. My wife (and I both) had that reaction over 20 years ago stepping aboard an American Tug 34 for the first time, it feeling more like a 40 footer to us (we ended up buying the boat, though for me it was not because of the interior spaciousness). Walk around side decks diminish interior space.

Likewise galley placement seems to have gravitated towards trying to replicate home setups, placing the cook in the midst of the conversation. Though on a 38 footer, that requires compromises, which for our tastes, the standard layout made too cramped.

Also number of staterooms. Manufacturers are often obsessed with cramming in the maximum number of sleeping spaces they can squeeze into a boat ("all boats sleep 6"). Many builders and brokers have told me it's the 'grandchild effect.' Often (frequently older or retired) people buy boats with the thoughts that their grandchildren will frequently join them for boating adventures. Likewise, many builders and brokers have bemusedly said to me how often that doesn't end u happening, and the second stateroom is used for storage. In the past 25 years that we've owned boats capable of accommodating more than just us, the total number of times we've had overnight guests aboard is zero. Never. Our friends who like boating have their own boats, and the others get too seasick to spend any time aboard. So for us a roomier single stateroom is what works.

@Hydraulicjump, my wife and I have the same perspective on 'speed'. For me it's all about the journey, for her it's 'are we there yet?', 'when are we going to get there?', 'how much longer will it be?' Being able to reliably cruise at least in the low teens was an absolute must-have deal-breaker (if I ever wanted her to go boating).

I'd be interested in hearing about your potential 'serious modification' of the 38E 'PNW edition'.

Thanks again everyone! (though I'm a 60-something fossil, I'm like a kid regarding this build).
 
Nick:

A few questions on how you viewed some tradeoffs, since every design has them.

Does the lack of a port side doorway represent downside to you? I doubt it, but just asking for your thoughts.

I like the opposing settee. You say you rarely have guests aboard, but for those that do, this creates a nice day trip arrangement to include 2 additional couples.

But without that, a port side doorway could be done, shifting the kitchen to starboard side and aft.

Your plan will enlarge the top deck, making carrying a dink up there a more practical option. Any idea how long a dink could now be carried?

Curious if you are going with a mast or arch.

My wife wants a seating spot up forward. Your arrangement gives that up? No issue?

All just curiosity questions on what is a great design. With the overall changes done, no doubt other buyers will spot opportunities for an interior arrangement that hits their personal sweet spot too.
 
Nick:

A few questions on how you viewed some tradeoffs, since every design has them.

Does the lack of a port side doorway represent downside to you? I doubt it, but just asking for your thoughts.

I like the opposing settee. You say you rarely have guests aboard, but for those that do, this creates a nice day trip arrangement to include 2 additional couples.

But without that, a port side doorway could be done, shifting the kitchen to starboard side and aft.

Your plan will enlarge the top deck, making carrying a dink up there a more practical option. Any idea how long a dink could now be carried?

Curious if you are going with a mast or arch.

My wife wants a seating spot up forward. Your arrangement gives that up? No issue?

All just curiosity questions on what is a great design. With the overall changes done, no doubt other buyers will spot opportunities for an interior arrangement that hits their personal sweet spot too.

Hi Win,

Happy to share my decision making process, though these are only my personal thoughts and preferences. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Needs of particular geographic areas and boating styles also dictate different choices.

Port side door: I would have loved one. Every choice on a boat is a trade off (unless you have Jeff Bezos money). Having a port side door would have meant eliminating one of the settees, or making the galley so small as to be useless. 38 ft isn't a bog boat, and there's only so much that can be fit into it.

I've had boats both with one and two doors. The dual doors were preferable and easier to dock for sure. But, 90% of the time I'm able to dock to starboard. Those times I can't, I hope for someone on the dock to grab the boat while I run around and pass over lines. On the Sedan, with a level deck it should be easy to get around the entire deck.

Plus, having a hand-held remote control for bow and stern thrusters is a BIG help. I know it's cheating, but it was so helpful in the past, and made single handed docking, to either side, so much easier.

The standard 37 Sedan layout is below. I don't know what Helmsman is going to do with the 38 layout. I would guess the extra 2'3" will lengthen the port side settee, and maybe a hanging locker aft of the galley on the starboard side.

The standard Sedan layout has either a small L-settee opposite the helm seat (obviating a port side door), or alternatively, a smaller seat matching the helm seat, which does allow a door.

Given everything else, I'd rather have the two opposing settees than give one up or compromise the galley for a second door. Yes, it gives up a matching navigator seat. But, we run from the flybridge almost all the time (except in bad weather), which will have plenty of seating (and twin pedestal seats for myself and my wife). On those rare occasions we run from the lower station, we either cuddle up together on the helm seat, or my wife is fine sitting on one of the settees (it's only a few feet away, it's a small boat, so conversation is still very doable).

Going with an arch. I think a mast looks better, is more 'traditional' and keeping in line with the style of boat. But the complete open space can't be beat.

I haven't asked Scott about the maximum size of a dinghy that would fit. I think it would be limited more by weight than length. I think at least 14 ft?
 

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All makes sense! Thanks
 
Nice design . I would like 2 Stressless chairs if there was room.
 
Nick
I share your priorities and really like your ideas & plans.
One hair-brain idea re layout & seating...

I've seen a creative multinfunction seating design on a Jeneau at a boat show a couple yrs back. As I recall it was a double width high helm seat in the raised/ fwd position and a double rear facing low seat in the rear/low position.
It could make the stbd side settee the "L or maybe C" " arrangement when down and provide a double fwd facing helm seat when raised.
That would make the port side settee straight and move the aft door to port.
If it strikes any interest I'd look to see if I can find the photo I snapped.
 
Nice design . I would like 2 Stressless chairs if there was room.

I haven't measured it, but I think 2 Stressless chairs would probably fit in place of one of the settees.

I personally like fixed furniture. Less to get tossed around when out in turbulent seas.
 
Nick
I share your priorities and really like your ideas & plans.
One hair-brain idea re layout & seating...

I've seen a creative multinfunction seating design on a Jeneau at a boat show a couple yrs back. As I recall it was a double width high helm seat in the raised/ fwd position and a double rear facing low seat in the rear/low position.
It could make the stbd side settee the "L or maybe C" " arrangement when down and provide a double fwd facing helm seat when raised.
That would make the port side settee straight and move the aft door to port.
If it strikes any interest I'd look to see if I can find the photo I snapped.

Don,

Thank you! I'd be interested in seeing a pic of that if you happen to find it.
 
Nick
I searched but couldn't find my pic but here is a link to a video that shows it even better.
It might open up some interesting options as long as you are starting with a clean interior and doing a custom design.


Don
 
Ranger Tugs and Cutwaters have something similar.
 
Nick
I searched but couldn't find my pic but here is a link to a video that shows it even better.
It might open up some interesting options as long as you are starting with a clean interior and doing a custom design.

Don

Thank you Don!

I'll have to think about how that might work. In the 38 Sedan, that kind of seat port forward could allow a second door. It could be part of a dinette, though I think it would be hard to make it part of a settee. It would also mean relocating the galley aft.
 
Hi Nick et al,
Love the thread. We narrowly missed the April slot but have a 38 Sedan on order for the next opening (June). Also getting the new H38 sedan with an arch (more landscape for electronics and opens deck area). Your internal mods make sense given your plans for the boat. Our plans are a bit different, so of course our tweaks are different as well.
We often cruise with another couple who've done thousands of miles with us, so we kept the second cabin. In fact that was a must-have requirement. Because we transitioned from sail a decade ago, 8-9kt plus a favorable tide satisfies us cruising, so we kept the standard 250hp engine. We extended the galley counter aft with more stowage below and shifted the salon settee aft, creating room for a low foul weather gear locker inboard and a top-access chest freezer outboard.
The lack of a port side door at the helm did bother me, but there's no alternative if you want the second cabin below. The main humbug will be docking port-side to with 2 of us aboard. We'll just back in.
Given our ages (mid 70s), my wife's aggressive plans for Haida Gwai and Glacier Bay despite some lingering balance issues after a small stroke, we will be putting a DMS Holland stabilizer onboard. In terms of a dinghy, we plan to have a Whaly 3.7m with a steering console.
Nick, if there's an option for off-list communication we should stay in touch. I'd be very interested in tracking your progress and experiences during the build.
Cheers to all hands,
Ric
 
Hi Nick et al,
Love the thread. We narrowly missed the April slot but have a 38 Sedan on order for the next opening (June). Also getting the new H38 sedan with an arch (more landscape for electronics and opens deck area). Your internal mods make sense given your plans for the boat. Our plans are a bit different, so of course our tweaks are different as well.
We often cruise with another couple who've done thousands of miles with us, so we kept the second cabin. In fact that was a must-have requirement. Because we transitioned from sail a decade ago, 8-9kt plus a favorable tide satisfies us cruising, so we kept the standard 250hp engine. We extended the galley counter aft with more stowage below and shifted the salon settee aft, creating room for a low foul weather gear locker inboard and a top-access chest freezer outboard.
The lack of a port side door at the helm did bother me, but there's no alternative if you want the second cabin below. The main humbug will be docking port-side to with 2 of us aboard. We'll just back in.
Given our ages (mid 70s), my wife's aggressive plans for Haida Gwai and Glacier Bay despite some lingering balance issues after a small stroke, we will be putting a DMS Holland stabilizer onboard. In terms of a dinghy, we plan to have a Whaly 3.7m with a steering console.
Nick, if there's an option for off-list communication we should stay in touch. I'd be very interested in tracking your progress and experiences during the build.
Cheers to all hands,
Ric

Ric, congratulations on your exciting build and upcoming new boat! Thanks for posting!

It would be fun to swap notes and ideas and stay in touch. I'll reach out in a PM.
 
Hi Nick et al,
Love the thread. We narrowly missed the April slot but have a 38 Sedan on order for the next opening (June). Also getting the new H38 sedan with an arch (more landscape for electronics and opens deck area). Your internal mods make sense given your plans for the boat. Our plans are a bit different, so of course our tweaks are different as well.
We often cruise with another couple who've done thousands of miles with us, so we kept the second cabin. In fact that was a must-have requirement. Because we transitioned from sail a decade ago, 8-9kt plus a favorable tide satisfies us cruising, so we kept the standard 250hp engine. We extended the galley counter aft with more stowage below and shifted the salon settee aft, creating room for a low foul weather gear locker inboard and a top-access chest freezer outboard.
The lack of a port side door at the helm did bother me, but there's no alternative if you want the second cabin below. The main humbug will be docking port-side to with 2 of us aboard. We'll just back in.
Given our ages (mid 70s), my wife's aggressive plans for Haida Gwai and Glacier Bay despite some lingering balance issues after a small stroke, we will be putting a DMS Holland stabilizer onboard. In terms of a dinghy, we plan to have a Whaly 3.7m with a steering console.
Nick, if there's an option for off-list communication we should stay in touch. I'd be very interested in tracking your progress and experiences during the build.
Cheers to all hands,
Ric

Welcome to the Helmsman group. H38E on order myself. Delivery expected late winter / early spring.
 
Welcome to the Helmsman group. H38E on order myself. Delivery expected late winter / early spring.

So your project must be in the hull layup stage. How is it going from your perspective? Do you get photos or Zoom sessions or how do you keep tabs on the goings-on?
Ric
 
Long out of the molds. Hull and cabin top joined. Work just started on interior. Its begun to look like a boat.

Yes, I get pics approximately weekly, and when they arrive its a great day.
 
Very exciting times. We built a 43' cutter in Taiwan in 1982, and the build photos are still treasured memories.
 
Exciting to see a new Helmsman variant. I’ve been a fan of Helmsman Trawlers since following John’s (N4061) 38E build, and spending some time crawling through the boat once he received it. I’ve also been on a couple sedans in the past. I love the 38E and am hoping that wife’s retirement and stars align in a few years. I’ve previously had a sedan style boat (Mainship 390), and while we love the Helmsman Pilot house 38E, will be interested in seeing this sedan build to see if she’s an option.

Your internal modification interests me, as one of the complaints (of many) I had with our Mainship was seating on only one side of the Salon. I’d be more inclined to keep the second stateroom as utility/storage however.

The discussion regarding power and speed is interesting as well. While I come from a sailing background, and currently have a beautiful 38’ sailboat, the one thing I did like about our Mainship was that it could run economically at 7- 8 kt (2.5 kmpg), reasonably economical but very comfortable 11 - 12 kt/1-kmpg when we were in sloppy seas… and flat out at 16 - 18 kt. (done rarely just to “blow it out”). The downsides were that this was done with twin Yanmars crammed into a horrible engine space. I loved the volumous space around the single Cummins in the 38E. However, having learned that high hp turbo/after cooled engines are another complication that is expensive to maintain, I’m hesitant to go with a high horsepower version engine. My ideal boat would be normally aspirated, and will cruise economically at 7 - 8 knots and comfortably run at no less than 10kt / at approved continuous RPM. I’m not sure that the standard 250 hp will do this, or if the upgraded 380hp (assumed turbo/after cooled) would be necessary. Unfortunately, I’ve not read any reviews from owners with the standard engine. It seems the 380hp is a popular option. The only chart I’ve seen from Helmsman is with the 380 hp engine.

Best wishes on your build, and please keep us updated. Photos are highly appreciated!
 
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Snip…

Still, this is a reminder of the Helmsman superpower. The ability to listen to the customer, what their wants and desires are, and to make the modifications necessary to meet them. Rather than requiring that the customer modify their wants and desires to the existing design.
Agreed… this is a huge plus and indicative of their excellent customer service reputation


Indeed, we were in discussions this winter with Scott about a serious modification of the 38e (what we called the PNW Edition) before the used Helmsman we are slated to buy (fingers crossed) fell into our laps. I may take the risk of posting this idea on a future event just to get shelled by current Helmsman 38(e) owners.
Jeff

Not to thread hijack… but I’m sure many of us would be interested in your modification ideas for the 38E.
 
In terms of engine options, none of the new Cummins engines are naturally aspirated, probably for emissions control reasons. None of the other manufacturers are doing NA engines either to my knowledge. Here are engine specs that give you an idea of the cost of speed. The 250hp will cruise at 8kt and give you a decent range, and get to 11kt on a flat out push burning 13gph. The change to a 380hp costs about $4000 per knot of max speed at a fuel consumption of 20gph (the attached article has performance data). The 425hp and 480hp options push the envelope further. You go faster, but at 25gph you'd need to refuel every 14 hours of run time. The math just didn't work for me. Timing the current on the inside passage, 8kt can become 14kt with no extra fuel cost.
 

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In case it wasn't clear, I was trying to say that the cost of being able to go 13kt instead of 11kt is around $8000 for the larger 380hp engine and it also means 7gph of additional fuel burn.
Ric
 
In case it wasn't clear, I was trying to say that the cost of being able to go 13kt instead of 11kt is around $8000 for the larger 380hp engine and it also means 7gph of additional fuel burn.
Ric

Continuous vs WOT:

Look at the Cummins PDF file you posted for the 380.

2800 RPM is the continuous max, at 200 RPM below max 3000. At 2800 you burn 16gph.

Now open the speed charts on the Helmsman site. At 16 gph you have 11 knots of speed. (H38) More on the 37 but the chart doesn't go to 16 gph.

I would assume that is with a fresh clean bottom, empty blackwater and fresh water tanks, and no load of cruising gear. I wouldn't assume more than 10 knots in real world conditions on H38.

My personal thought process was simple enough when I spec'ed the 380. I plan to go 7 knots mostly. But there are a few runs where I'd pay the fuel bill to make an anchorage by nightfall. Notably up the NJ coast where bailout options can be sketchy between Atlantic City and Sandy Hook. Floor it and pay the man at the fuel dock. Need this often? I don't expect to, but I'm willing to pay the price to have the option available.

Its a small point, but the 380 is the most common choice on the H38, so for resale I'm not trying to sell with a "small" engine. Not a big deal, but its a small deal.

Of course your personal tradeoffs will vary.
 
One other point.

Why not more than 380 while I'm at it?

I think Scott will tell you that at the speeds above what the 380 will give you, you need trim tabs. So cross that Rubicon and you have both an engine upgrade cost and trim tab cost, and throw in there will be some small level of ongoing maintenance of the tabs and so forth. I kept life simple by stopping short of that need.
 
Exciting to see a new Helmsman variant. I’ve been a fan of Helmsman Trawlers since following John’s (N4061) 38E build, and spending some time crawling through the boat once he received it. I’ve also been on a couple sedans in the past. I love the 38E and am hoping that wife’s retirement and stars align in a few years. I’ve previously had a sedan style boat (Mainship 390), and while we love the Helmsman Pilot house 38E, will be interested in seeing this sedan build to see if she’s an option.

Your internal modification interests me, as one of the complaints (of many) I had with our Mainship was seating on only one side of the Salon. I’d be more inclined to keep the second stateroom as utility/storage however.

The discussion regarding power and speed is interesting as well. While I come from a sailing background, and currently have a beautiful 38’ sailboat, the one thing I did like about our Mainship was that it could run economically at 7- 8 kt (2.5 kmpg), reasonably economical but very comfortable 11 - 12 kt/1-kmpg when we were in sloppy seas… and flat out at 16 - 18 kt. (done rarely just to “blow it out”). The downsides were that this was done with twin Yanmars crammed into a horrible engine space. I loved the volumous space around the single Cummins in the 38E. However, having learned that high hp turbo/after cooled engines are another complication that is expensive to maintain, I’m hesitant to go with a high horsepower version engine. My ideal boat would be normally aspirated, and will cruise economically at 7 - 8 knots and comfortably run at no less than 10kt / at approved continuous RPM. I’m not sure that the standard 250 hp will do this, or if the upgraded 380hp (assumed turbo/after cooled) would be necessary. Unfortunately, I’ve not read any reviews from owners with the standard engine. It seems the 380hp is a popular option. The only chart I’ve seen from Helmsman is with the 380 hp engine.

Best wishes on your build, and please keep us updated. Photos are highly appreciated!

Thank you!

I think one of the wonderful things about Helmsman is Scott's willingness to accommodate customizations. He accommodated a major request of mine to stretch the boat and create an essentially new model, as well as a very different interior layout and engine. Few builders are willing to do that, unless one gets into truly custom builds (and pricing).

It allows a Helmsman boat to meet diverse desires from people. We all use our boats a little differently. The boat is usually built with a lower power engine as a traditional displacement speed trawler, or with a somewhat more powerful engine to allow transitional speed, or in my case, still more power to enable sustained cruising at semi-displacement speeds. Having a new Helmsman build allows the boat to be tailored to one's boating uses.

Two seating spaces were important for us, both for our own lounging, and the kind of socializing we do (visitors for a short time, usually at the dock, rarely while underway). I would have loved to have a second/navigator's seat, and a second outside access door. But the price for that would have been losing the two settees, which were more important to us (besides, we run from the flybridge most of the time, in all but inclement weather, where there is perfect two pedestal side-by-side plus guest/lounging seating).

Likewise the second stateroom, would have required a smaller both master cabin and head (and loss of a separate stall shower). Extra storage space would be great, but for us not at the expense of the main cabin or head spaces.

As others have commented, there is indeed a price to be paid for higher speeds. Roughly doubling the cruise speed approximately quadruples fuel burn. At $6/gal, that is $$$expensive$$$ (at least by the standards of my wallet). But, like everything else with a boat, it's compromises and trade-offs.

In my case, both because of the Admiral's intolerance of traveling more slowly (I'm all about the 'journey', she's a 'destination' kind of person), and the 3-5 knot adverse currents in some spots in our area, cruising at displacement speeds would limit our daily range.

There was an ad a while back, I believe for a downeast boat, that had a graphic along the lines of the following, promoting the difference in daily cruising radius possible at 7.5 vs 15 knots.

The longest day passage we have made (and plan to make) in our area is a run of about 130-140 miles (in particular, New York City to Cape May has little in the way of ports along the way, unless one is willing to run one of a couple of tricky inlets). At 14-15 knots it's a doable, albeit long, day. At 7-8 knots it would be an impossibly long unless overnight run, which, single-handing, would be hard for me to do.

The extra fuel costs for the speed will hurt. But, when I think of how much the additional cost will be, either annually or over the time I expect we'll be able to cruise, while far from trivial it's a faction of the purchase price of the boat (about 1% per year). We can't take it with us, and at this age, it's literally now or never. 'Someday' is here, and there isn't a 'long term' anymore (and besides, if we didn't cruise at 13-15 knots, I'd be doing all my boating on my own).

And when I single hand and take it out on my own, just to putter around Narragansett Bay, I can go as slow as I like.
 

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Hi Nick et al,
Love the thread. .....
Given our ages (mid 70s), my wife's aggressive plans for Haida Gwai and Glacier Bay despite some lingering balance issues after a small stroke, we will be putting a DMS Holland stabilizer onboard. ..
Cheers to all hands,
Ric

Good thread, and Ric: I see you mentioned DMS Holland. Are you going with a single Magnus rotor? I see DMS has been trying to break into the US market. Their system seems more suited for full displacement boats but I know they're trying to also work with semi-displacement as well... it will be interesting to see how it performs on this type of trawler with hard chines.
 
Yes, a single rotor system. They are making headway in the small trawler world, and you can have them factory installed on Nordhavns. The units take up very little space inside the boat - maybe 18"x24"x18", the rotors "park" fore and aft with a low profile, and they can be run off an inverter (800-1000W continuous) if the generator goes offline. The main complications are the power requirements. The control system works on 24vdc and the stabilizer motor runs on 240v single phase [= European power]. Fortunately, Vectron makes a 12->24 converter and a 120->240 converter, so can be done, it's just more bits and pieces to assemble. For a 38'er, seemed like the best option. Pricey, but so is a broken hip in Dixon Entrance.
 
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