New Build Option Cost/Prioritization

[JRZ1]

Considering a new build of a 55-60' boat. Will be first bigger liveabord style boat so don't have experience with this stuff. Wondering how this experienced crew would look at some of the potential options given costs. Feedback will also apply to potential search for used boats which all have differing levels of equipment or upgrades that might be needed. Let me know your thoughts on the following options (don't have to comment on all, just ones you have strong view on one way or the other):

• Electrically heated pilot house windows (presumably frost/anti-fog) - $4.5K
• Double thick salon glass (starting with glass that is Class A approved; more for insulation/sound) - $7.7K
• Fly bridge vinyl/plastic enclosure - $10K
• Second anchor/windlass - $25K
• Capstains on stern - $4.5K
• Emerson Aventics 3D System at helm and flybridge (joystick controls throttles/thrusters together) - $21.8K (can add more stations for about $5K each)
• Emerson Aventics Dynamic Positioning (I assume software control which allows virtual anchoring/position hold and some other nifty control features) - $21.8K
• Rudder Blade (trailing edge of rudder can pivot as well increasing total deflection) - $8K
• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K
• Fuel system made entirely of 1.4521 Stainless Steel constructed with Viega Press system (assume reliability/longevity) = $17.5K
• 450L New & Old oil tanks added to reverso system to automatically fill/drain/store oil on motors and generators - $5.6K
• Second smaller 13.5KW generator on top of large lithium bank and Sleipner engine alternators (wondering if I'd really need 2 generators with huge lithium capacity/solar and PTO alternators on twin engine) - $40K
• 2 Glendinning CM7 shore power cable reels - $6.6K (is alternative a loose cable(s) I assume?)
• Lightning Protection System (copper rod extending down from above flybridge to copper plates under boat) - $23K
• Upgraded semi-central cabin ventilation system with heat recovery (fans to move and freshen air w/o AC or heat) - $25K
• Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K
• Electric floor heating - $7.9K
• Sanitary piping and deck drainage made from 1.4521 Veiga Stainless Steel (presumably cuts down on odor and extends longevity) - $30.7K
• Second Water maker for redundancy - $25.3K
• Winterization air pressure flush system (clear out external water taps with compressed air) - $4.2K
• FLIR M232 - $7.4K; or
• FLIR M364 (stabilized, higher res/range/color blending) - $36.8K
• Advanced CCTV Camera System and DVR (18 cameras around boat) - $15.3K
• Engine room or Lazarette Thermal Cameras - $2.1K each

 

[tiltrider1]

• Electrically heated pilot house windows (presumably frost/anti-fog) - $4.5K

If you have no other way to defrost the window than this, this would be a must have. My boat uses blowers and engine heat much like a car. Either or but I don't see a need for both.

 

[mvweebles]

Considering a new build of a 55-60' boat. Will be first bigger liveabord style boat so don't have experience with this stuff. Wondering how this experienced crew would look at some of the potential options given costs. Feedback will also apply to potential search for used boats which all have differing levels of equipment or upgrades that might be needed. Let me know your thoughts on the following options (don't have to comment on all, just ones you have strong view on one way or the other):

• Electrically heated pilot house windows (presumably frost/anti-fog) - $4.5K
• Double thick salon glass (starting with glass that is Class A approved; more for insulation/sound) - $7.7K
• Fly bridge vinyl/plastic enclosure - $10K
• Second anchor/windlass - $25K
• Capstains on stern - $4.5K
• Emerson Aventics 3D System at helm and flybridge (joystick controls throttles/thrusters together) - $21.8K (can add more stations for about $5K each)
• Emerson Aventics Dynamic Positioning (I assume software control which allows virtual anchoring/position hold and some other nifty control features) - $21.8K
• Rudder Blade (trailing edge of rudder can pivot as well increasing total deflection) - $8K
• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K
• Fuel system made entirely of 1.4521 Stainless Steel constructed with Viega Press system (assume reliability/longevity) = $17.5K
• 450L New & Old oil tanks added to reverso system to automatically fill/drain/store oil on motors and generators - $5.6K
• Second smaller 13.5KW generator on top of large lithium bank and Sleipner engine alternators (wondering if I'd really need 2 generators with huge lithium capacity/solar and PTO alternators on twin engine) - $40K
• 2 Glendinning CM7 shore power cable reels - $6.6K (is alternative a loose cable(s) I assume?)
• Lightning Protection System (copper rod extending down from above flybridge to copper plates under boat) - $23K
• Upgraded semi-central cabin ventilation system with heat recovery (fans to move and freshen air w/o AC or heat) - $25K
• Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K
• Electric floor heating - $7.9K
• Sanitary piping and deck drainage made from 1.4521 Veiga Stainless Steel (presumably cuts down on odor and extends longevity) - $30.7K
• Second Water maker for redundancy - $25.3K
• Winterization air pressure flush system (clear out external water taps with compressed air) - $4.2K
• FLIR M232 - $7.4K; or
• FLIR M364 (stabilized, higher res/range/color blending) - $36.8K
• Advanced CCTV Camera System and DVR (18 cameras around boat) - $15.3K
• Engine room or Lazarette Thermal Cameras - $2.1K each

With a list like that, you're going to spend a LOT of time either (1) in major yachting centers such as Seattle or Ft Lauderdale; (2) flying-in skilled technicians and dealing with customs issues; or (3) living with a lot of inoperable stuff.

BTW - you're missing a standby autopilot and radar. 90% of the rest is a distraction. You may want to look at how Steve Dashew does his FPBs for good ideas of what's necessary.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is not a practical list for a cruising boat that may depart anytime in the next 3-5 years.

Peter

 

[tiltrider1]

• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K

I am a much bigger fan of sight tubes than gauges. I have installed a gallons to fill chart behind my sight tubes. This way I know how many gallons I can pump to full. If it says 400 gallons to full I can pump 400 gallons with out worrying about over filling. Gauges are often delayed in reporting. Not an issue if you just want to add some fuel, more of an issue if you are topping off.

 

[JRZ1]

With a list like that, you're going to spend a LOT of time either (1) in major yachting centers such as Seattle or Ft Lauderdale; (2) flying-in skilled technicians and dealing with customs issues; or (3) living with a lot of inoperable stuff.

BTW - you're missing a standby autopilot and radar. 90% of the rest is a distraction. You may want to look at how Steve Dashew does his FPBs for good ideas of what's necessary.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is not a practical list for a cruising boat that may depart anytime in the next 3-5 years.

Peter

Some of the options like redundant autopilot and radar I didn't list because I don't have any questions about whether I need them. Understand the simple is better view so no offense taken.

 

[JRZ1]

• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K

I am a much bigger fan of sight tubes than gauges. I have installed a gallons to fill chart behind my sight tubes. This way I know how many gallons I can pump to full. If it says 400 gallons to full I can pump 400 gallons with out worrying about over filling. Gauges are often delayed in reporting. Not an issue if you just want to add some fuel, more of an issue if you are topping off.

There are sight tubes in the ER. Didn't know whether having some indication at the fill locations was valuable or not. I'd lean no.

 

[Diep]

I would give a LOT of weight to Peter's perspective in most cases. Tons of real world experience. More than many members combined.

In this case I will disagree somewhat with the broad take. Some of the list is bells and whistles about which his point is good. Many others are build options that really only change the quality or materials and should have no effect on maintenance or reliability.

I would break the list up a bit and think about different types of items separately. I would use criteria like: Can this be added later if needed? Does this add needed functionality for my intended use?

It is hard to opine on some items without knowing what the standard spec is and/or what boat you are talking about. If you can get in contact with other owners you might get better advice. Things like does the boat really need or benefit from an articulated rudder? Is the spec'd sound insulation adequate or do you need the upgrade? I would give strongest consideration to items like windows, insulation, etc that is impossible to add later.

Viega/Megapress stuff is really nice. That said it is big $$ so I would skip it unless you are working with a blank check budget.

I would skip the dynamic positioning. I'd rather have a simpler system and then learn/understand how to drive it. I have also heard bad things about Flir.

 

[Moonfish]

Maybe it's because we boat in the PNW, but we really have no "need" for a flybridge enclosure (which would save $10K). Granted, I drive 90% of the time from the pilothouse helm, but I also prefer that position for docking. I go up to the flybridge on warm summer days to soak up some vitamin D, though. I love the two contrasting helms. One totally climate controlled and comfortable, the other like having wind in my hair a' la my old Triumph convertibles. At least for our boat and style of cruising, we don't need two similarly enclosed helm stations.

That being said, maybe someday I'll install a retractable bimini top...

 

[mvweebles]

What is the use-case? These are hi-latitude items that would make the boat uncomfortable in low latitudes. But let's go one by one:

• Electrically heated pilot house windows (presumably frost/anti-fog) - $4.5K Canvas/Plastic won't survive big blows and probably cannot be replaced/repaired easily. And $10k won't even come close.
• Double thick salon glass (starting with glass that is Class A approved; more for insulation/sound) - $7.7K s$7.7k won't come close, especially if you'd like them to open for ventilation. But regardless, why???
• Fly bridge vinyl/plastic enclosure - $10K If the previous two bullets are really needed, plastic/vinyl won't cut it. And $10k won't even come close.
• Second anchor/windlass - $25K Not a bad idea though windlasses are pretty relaible pieces of equipment. I don't think $25k will get it done by the time cabling and controls are included.
• Capstains on stern - $4.5K More electricals and such. $4.5k won't cut it. Not sure you need it with a stern thruster.
• Emerson Aventics 3D System at helm and flybridge (joystick controls throttles/thrusters together) - $21.8K (can add more stations for about $5K each) No idea what this is. Better be 100% reliable because it isn't getting repaired in too many places. Sounds a bit more expensive than $21.8k but I don't know what it is so maybe not. .
• Emerson Aventics Dynamic Positioning (I assume software control which allows virtual anchoring/position hold and some other nifty control features) - $21.8K No idea what this is. Better be 100% reliable because it isn't getting repaired in too many places.
• Rudder Blade (trailing edge of rudder can pivot as well increasing total deflection) - $8K I assume this is an articulating rudder. Fine, but do you really need it with bow and stern thrusters?
• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K Not a bad idea. Never seen it before. Not sure how useful - you pretty well know how much fuel you'll take on, and the last 5% is done by sound anyway.
• Fuel system made entirely of 1.4521 Stainless Steel constructed with Viega Press system (assume reliability/longevity) = $17.5K Aeroquip lines and systems are extremely long lived and reliable. Curious that an already reliable and robust system is deemed a candidate for further upgrades when OP is okay going with SW/Electronc controls on (Emerson Aventics systems a few bullets up).
• 450L New & Old oil tanks added to reverso system to automatically fill/drain/store oil on motors and generators - $5.6K Again, budget ain't even close. New/Used oil tanks take a lot of room and are not practical on a 55-60 foot boat. Wish they were.....
• Second smaller 13.5KW generator on top of large lithium bank and Sleipner engine alternators (wondering if I'd really need 2 generators with huge lithium capacity/solar and PTO alternators on twin engine) - $40K Yes, you need a second generator. There is no way you'll have enough LFP/Solar to run this boat. It's a full-time generator boat. And $40k won't even come close to paying for the install.
• 2 Glendinning CM7 shore power cable reels - $6.6K (is alternative a loose cable(s) I assume?) This is fairly common on a 60-footer.
• Lightning Protection System (copper rod extending down from above flybridge to copper plates under boat) - $23K Fine -
• Upgraded semi-central cabin ventilation system with heat recovery (fans to move and freshen air w/o AC or heat) - $25K No idea what this is. A solution in search of a problem? Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one.....-
• Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one....
• Electric floor heating - $7.9K Now I know - this is a Hi-Latitude/ NW Passage boat. ....
• Sanitary piping and deck drainage made from 1.4521 Veiga Stainless Steel (presumably cuts down on odor and extends longevity) - $30.7K
• Second Water maker for redundancy - $25.3K Makes some sense. But I'd be more selective - pumps are the source of failure.
• Winterization air pressure flush system (clear out external water taps with compressed air) - $4.2K Now I know - this is a Hi-Latitude/ NW Passage boat. ....
• FLIR M232 - $7.4K; or FLIR's are incredibly failure prone and, in my opinion, not very useful except in very limited use cases (SAR for example).
• FLIR M364 (stabilized, higher res/range/color blending) - $36.8K
• Advanced CCTV Camera System and DVR (18 cameras around boat) - $15.3K To see what???.
• Engine room or Lazarette Thermal Cameras - $2.1K each To see what???.

This is how you take a $2m boat and turn it into a $4m boat. It's how you destroy a cruising dream because you're exhausted by the time you leave the dock and you're constantly planning on where you can find tech support.

In short, in my opinion, this is a science project intended as a displace at CES, not actively used. The time spent on repairs and seeking repairs will sap the life and energy out of a cruising dream (assuming there is a cruising dream).

Peter

 

[JRZ1]

What is the use-case? These are hi-latitude items that would make the boat uncomfortable in low latitudes. But let's go one by one:

• Electrically heated pilot house windows (presumably frost/anti-fog) - $4.5K Canvas/Plastic won't survive big blows and probably cannot be replaced/repaired easily. And $10k won't even come close.
• Double thick salon glass (starting with glass that is Class A approved; more for insulation/sound) - $7.7K s$7.7k won't come close, especially if you'd like them to open for ventilation. But regardless, why???
• Fly bridge vinyl/plastic enclosure - $10K If the two bullets are really needed, plastic/vinyl won't cut it. And $10k won't even come close.
• Second anchor/windlass - $25K Not a bad idea though windlasses are pretty relaible pieces of equipment. I don't think $25k will get it done by the time cabling and controls are included.
• Capstains on stern - $4.5K More electricals and such. $4.5k won't cut it. Not sure you need it with a stern thruster.
• Emerson Aventics 3D System at helm and flybridge (joystick controls throttles/thrusters together) - $21.8K (can add more stations for about $5K each) No idea what this is. Better be 100% reliable because it isn't getting repaired in too many places.
• Emerson Aventics Dynamic Positioning (I assume software control which allows virtual anchoring/position hold and some other nifty control features) - $21.8K No idea what this is. Better be 100% reliable because it isn't getting repaired in too many places.
• Rudder Blade (trailing edge of rudder can pivot as well increasing total deflection) - $8K
• Fuel tank level gauges at fill stations - $1.8K
• Fuel system made entirely of 1.4521 Stainless Steel constructed with Viega Press system (assume reliability/longevity) = $17.5K Aeroquip lines and systems are extremely long lived and reliable. Curious that an already reliable and robust system is deemed a candidate for further upgrades when OP is okay going with SW/Electronc controls on (Emerson Aventics systems a few bullets up).
• 450L New & Old oil tanks added to reverso system to automatically fill/drain/store oil on motors and generators - $5.6K Again, budget ain't even close. New/Used oil tanks take a lot of room and are not practical on a 55-60 foot boat. Wish they were.....
• Second smaller 13.5KW generator on top of large lithium bank and Sleipner engine alternators (wondering if I'd really need 2 generators with huge lithium capacity/solar and PTO alternators on twin engine) - $40K Yes, you need a second generator. There is no way you'll have enough LFP/Solar to run this boat. It's a full-time generator boat. And $40k won't even come close to paying for the install.
• 2 Glendinning CM7 shore power cable reels - $6.6K (is alternative a loose cable(s) I assume?) This is fairly common on a 60-footer.
• Lightning Protection System (copper rod extending down from above flybridge to copper plates under boat) - $23K Fine -
• Upgraded semi-central cabin ventilation system with heat recovery (fans to move and freshen air w/o AC or heat) - $25K No idea what this is. A solution in search of a problem? Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one.....-
• Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one....
• Electric floor heating - $7.9K Now I know - this is a Hi-Latitude/ NW Passage boat. ....
• Sanitary piping and deck drainage made from 1.4521 Veiga Stainless Steel (presumably cuts down on odor and extends longevity) - $30.7K
• Second Water maker for redundancy - $25.3K Makes some sense. But I'd be more selective - pumps are the source of failure.
• Winterization air pressure flush system (clear out external water taps with compressed air) - $4.2K Now I know - this is a Hi-Latitude/ NW Passage boat. ....
• FLIR M232 - $7.4K; or FLIR's are incredibly failure prone and, in my opinion, not very useful except in very limited use cases (SAR for example).
• FLIR M364 (stabilized, higher res/range/color blending) - $36.8K
• Advanced CCTV Camera System and DVR (18 cameras around boat) - $15.3K To see what???.
• Engine room or Lazarette Thermal Cameras - $2.1K each To see what???.

This is how you take a $2m boat and turn it into a $4m boat. It's how you destroy a cruising dream because you're exhausted by the time you leave the dock and you're constantly planning on where you can find tech support.

In short, in my opinion, this is a science project intended as a displace at CES, not actively used. The time spent on repairs and seeking repairs will sap the life and energy out of a cruising dream (assuming there is a cruising dream).

Peter

Those are the manufacturers prices for the options. I get the general gist about some options being for cold weather and some for warmer climates. I'd probably spend most in warm but may get stuck in cold. A lot of these are things that are harder to do later.

 

[mvweebles]

Those are the manufacturers prices for the options. I get the general gist about some options being for cold weather and some for warmer climates. I'd probably spend most in warm but may get stuck in cold. A lot of these are things that are harder to do later.

All I can tell you is this is the do-loop newbie Nordhavn owners are prone to. They tick a lot of boxes for upgrades and fancy stuff, and they do a bunch of online research finding all sorts of gizmology (believe it or not, you can spend $40k on a single searchlight). They have no idea what the heck they'll do with the stuff (FLIR is a great example) but they buy it anyway and double the price of the build (and double the build time). In the process of building a prepper-capable bug-out boat, they create a fragile boat that hops from yachting center to yachting center where they spend a month and $50k every other year (plus expenses) fixing the stuff that supposedly had redundancy.

I'll flag @twistedtree, @Retriever , and @guy with a boat (experienced Nordhavn owners) to keep me honest on lists like the OPs. I loved working with newbie owners, but watching them build lists like the OPs and then watching them struggle through a protracted build and commissioning process was heartbreaking. They spent so much time, money, and energy building the perfect boat that by the time they dropped docklines, they were pretty exhausted. But most importantly, keep all those systems up and running just isn't fun. It's hard on your wallet, but most importantly, your relationship.

If your goal is to build a CES-worthy boat, list is a good start. If your goal is to build a cruising platform with redundant systems for safety and comfort, you're woefully mistaken. Just my opinion.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

Those are the manufacturers prices for the options. I get the general gist about some options being for cold weather and some for warmer climates. I'd probably spend most in warm but may get stuck in cold. A lot of these are things that are harder to do later.

Correction. Those are not the manufacturers numbers, they are the WAG from a salesperson. For example, there is no way you're enclosing the bridge of a 60-foot boat for $10k. And that's just a start.

Peter

 

[DDW]

If you add all that stuff, allow at least a year, possibly two, after launch in the vicinity of the builder so that it can all be debugged and running at least once. As Weebles says it will break again too, but it will take that long to get it working the first time.

 

[JRZ1]

I'm not as good as Peter at doing fancy replies to quotes:

- Heated pilot glass: Think it's embedded in glass like a defroster. Not sure what the canvas/plastic comment is
- Double Glass: that is mfg quote. I get the ventilation comment but not sure class a rated boats have slider windows anyway.
- flybridge enclosure: This is mfg cost to include enclosure for a relatively small flybridge. Assume it's canvas and plastic vinyle windows. Flybridge has hard top.
-2nd Anchor/windlass: That's their cost to install a second system for redundancy
- Stern Capstains: again, that's the quoted option cost. I just didn't know how much people use them.
- Emerson 3D. It's a joystick that basically combines control for bow/stern thrusters and engine controls so you can use joystick to move boat in any direction or rotate it in place. Failure of this system presumably would not impact independant controls.
- Emerson 3D Positioning: Takes the 3d control and adds capabilities. More info here https://www.emerson.com/documents/a...x-dynamic-positioning-aventics-en-7665360.pdf
Rudder: Yes, articulating rudder. perhaps you don't need. they say it helps maneuverability at slow speeds etc.
Fuel Tank Guage: Yeah, never seen. Wondering if it would actually be useful.
- Fuel System: Given your comment about longevity of typical lines, maybe it's not worth it. I appreciate that the mfg offers it though.
450L tanks: That's their price. They must have considered where to put the tanks if they're selling it as an option. A 100gal tank isn't that big.
- Second Gen: They say there is 26KW of battery capacity in the expanded lithium option plus you have solar and the PTO 40KW generators. That's their price.
- Glendinning: Seems like it is something that should be put on this size boat.
Lightning: Just don't know how effective these kind of systems are to justify price
Ventilation: I think it's electric fans that introduce fresh air to all spaces and help condition it before putting in with a heat exchanger. So many people complain about ventilation so was wondering about the potential utility.
- Thermal Insulation: I also wonder about protection in heat and reduced need to run AC as much
- Floor Heat: I love this in My RV even on cool mornings not cold.
- Sanitary piping: given all the complains about smells and different kinds of rubber hoses, was wondering if this would make sense to prevent that and extend longevity of hosing.
- Winterization: Dont' think i'd be docking/storing in cold so probably would not do this.
- FLIR: it seems appealing to me but looking for opinions. Maybe the cheaper version.
- CCTV: Shows all around boat from pilot house
- Engine Room thermal: fire protection. Has ability send alarm if heat levels exceed certain levels.

 

[JRZ1]

Correction. Those are not the manufacturers numbers, they are the WAG from a salesperson. For example, there is no way you're enclosing the bridge of a 60-foot boat for $10k. And that's just a start.

Peter

it's a pretty small flybridge. those are their numbers.

 

[mvweebles]

I think you have to decide what you want to do with the boat. Your list describes a boat that can cross oceans, run in very cold weather, and be a life-pod for weeks. If that's what you plan/want - mission accomplished. If your goal is a cruising itinerary where you travel and discover, it's not a total failure, but will keep you from smelling the roses along the way. You'll bypass the neat places on your way to the next repair facility.

You just really need to figure out what your end goal is.

I'll stand-down and let others chime in. I really wish you the best and I hope you take this as well-intended tough love. But you need to stop researching this stuff and figure out how to get on the water so you can make practical choices on boat and intended use.

Best regards -

Peter

 

[JRZ1]

You just really need to figure out what your end goal is.

Yes I do. Thx. for the input. Still go back and forth between cruiser and something that can go longer distances.

 

[mvweebles]

Yes I do. Thx. for the input. Still go back and forth between cruiser and something that can go longer distances.

One of the biggest misconceptions with boat selection for trawler-style boats is "If it can cross an ocean, it can do whatever I want it to do." Makes a lot of sense on it's surface but it's simple not correct. It's like buying a F350 dually as a daily driver because you might need to pull a tree stump someday. A trans-ocean passagemaker isn't great at getting into nooks and crannies where people actually live and build towns. They can be coffins that require 24/7 climate control. Deep draft that keeps you out of bar crossings. The expense makes you wary of taking any risk.

My dearly departed father used to say "Don't let your possessions possess you." To my mind, going down the path like your list is at serious risk of being hostage to your boat. To me, a boat is a magic carpet to take me where I want to go. I've owned Weebles for almost 30-years and really like the boat. But her #1 job in life is to take me to places I want to go, and do it with my other half whom I just adore. Sometimes it's a real stretch - 4-nights ago it got down to 31F with +20kts wind in Florida, too cold to anchor so we bugged-out to a marina for 3-nights. Had a great time.

My one big piece of advice: it's not about the boat. It's what you do with the boat. Where you go. The people you meet, The places you see. Figure those things out and buy the best boat you can afford to make it happen. And do it as quickly as you can - ain't making more time.

Peter

 

[JRZ1]

My timing is a little limited by my wife's job. She retires soon and then we're unhindered. I may buy it before she retires. If ordering new, my goal is placing order end of this year or early next. If I buy used, any time from next year on. Just not ready from multiple fronts

 

[Retriever]

What boat is this options list for?

I'm particularly curious about the electrical system--what are the 40kw PTOs? Is a standalone diesel generator standard?

What's the second windlass arrangement like? How is it powered?

Skip the positioning stuff and get comfortable driving the boat with rudder, throttle, and thrusters...it won't take long, and thrusters make it pretty intuitive even without the joystick stuff.

Choose the wrong builder and you might never go cruising. Really be careful here. I'd hire Steve D'Antonio.

 

[klee wyck]

This set of choices is so personal but since you asked.....
Given the plethora of great used boats available and ready to cruise and given the exhaustion of just considering the choices you lay out here, I cannot imagine I would ever consider commissioning a new build.
But, if I did, and were offered this list of options, I would only choose to go forward with two of them:
>the aft capstans,
>Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K

 

[Jklotz]

I've learned so much in my 9 months of cruising and living on my boat. No matter how much effort and thought I put into it during my year and a half preparing, taking classes, going to boat shows, reading forums and seeing boats, there has been no substitute for actually being on board and navigating all the challenges that I face on a daily basis. For the type of cruising I do, a lot of the things you mention would just get in the way. Keep in mind most of that stuff has to be maintained. IMHO, you've got to define your mission before you can know what tools are necessary to complete it.

 

[JRZ1]

I've learned so much in my 9 months of cruising and living on my boat. No matter how much effort and thought I put into it during my year and a half preparing, taking classes, going to boat shows, reading forums and seeing boats, there has been no substitute for actually being on board and navigating all the challenges that I face on a daily basis. For the type of cruising I do, a lot of the things you mention would just get in the way. Keep in mind most of that stuff has to be maintained. IMHO, you've got to define your mission before you can know what tools are necessary to complete it.

Necessary is not the right word. None of the options I posted about are necessary. They're options/upgrades that could either improve performance/comfort/reliability/safety. How much is debatable which, is why I posted the question. I respect the simple approach but also value things that can improve the overall experience in whatever way. Are heated floors necessary? F-no. Are they nice sometimes? Yeah. had some in my RV and loved it when it got cold outside. I wouldn't do anything if the extra complication sacrificed the ability to complete a core, underlying function (ie if the complicated **** broke, you're stranded). Much of what I posted about was adding redundancy or longevity. Some are luxuries that "purists" may scoff at (ie the joystick control and positioning software). That's fine. That's why there's a boat for everyone.

 

[guy with a boat]

JRZ1, you don’t mention the make or model of boat that you have in mind for these questions. Maybe you prefer to keep it to yourself, but it is hard to offer any valid input without some context to the questions. It is hard to know what options are worthwhile without knowing the baseline specs and the your general plan for use of the boat.

Give us an idea of the boat you have in mind and the general type and location of cruising that you expect to do. PNW? Mexico? Loop? Caribbean? One boat can do many things but it will ideally be optimized for the areas and use that you expect to do the most. Sorry if I missed the info in another thread, but I don’t see it here.

FWIW, I lean towards simplicity and less stuff, despite having what appears to be a complicated boat. One small example is I prefer a separate shore power cord to a cable master. The motorized version is more complicated and takes up valuable space. Another example is that I would only spec a second gen if you expect to regularly cruise in a lattitude that requires full time HVAC. Make the single gen a Northern Lights and learn to maintain it, and you won’t need a spare.

I would be happy to comment on the other options if we had a little more info about what you have in mind.

 

[Mako]

@JRZ1 the posts above have said it all and I really hope you're not planning on signing a contract anytime soon.

Model aside, the biggest question is where do you truly plan to cruise? And for your more extreme destinations, are they just a one-time trip, or often and repeatedly?

If you're going remote and bluewater then you want a boat that is simpler, not more complicated. Having all these weird systems does not make your boat more reliable or offer greater redundancy. They make you Mr. Cool at the dock with your friends, and allow the salesman to screw you out of a ton of money now and with future headaches.

The boat in my Avatar is now 70 years old and has 80 year old engines. It cruised from Wisconsin to Aussie and back with paper charts and a WW2 radar. If I were outfitting it today to repeat that trip I would add pretty much nothing on your list. Polar areas, okay perhaps some additional insulation. Double glazed windows, electrically heated... only if planning to live there.

An articulated rudder in ice... no way! If your future boat will be a single then add a fishtail to the rudder, but if it's a twin then you already have 100% control of your stern. Double windlass - meh. Flybridges are a personal decision, not mission-critical in any way, but I really like Moonfish's remarks.

I would think more about zero-speed stabilizers, and personally I'd go electric instead of hydraulic. That's a better place for your money. Also, I hope you're thinking a true displacement boat, not SD, if your plans are truly worldwide. Don't let marketing brochures and the misused word "long range cruiser" fool you into a boat's capabilities.

 

[ranger58sb]

• Double thick salon glass (starting with glass that is Class A approved; more for insulation/sound) - $7.7K s$7.7k won't come close, especially if you'd like them to open for ventilation. But regardless, why???
• Fly bridge vinyl/plastic enclosure - $10K If the previous two bullets are really needed, plastic/vinyl won't cut it. And $10k won't even come close.
• Second anchor/windlass - $25K Not a bad idea though windlasses are pretty relaible pieces of equipment. I don't think $25k will get it done by the time cabling and controls are included.
• 2 Glendinning CM7 shore power cable reels - $6.6K (is alternative a loose cable(s) I assume?) This is fairly common on a 60-footer.
• Lightning Protection System (copper rod extending down from above flybridge to copper plates under boat) - $23K Fine -
• Upgraded semi-central cabin ventilation system with heat recovery (fans to move and freshen air w/o AC or heat) - $25K No idea what this is. A solution in search of a problem? Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one.....-
• Additional Thermal and acoustic insulation lower deck to deck height - $21.8K Really have to decide whether this is a NW Passage boat or a Panama Canal boat. Pick one....
• Sanitary piping and deck drainage made from 1.4521 Veiga Stainless Steel (presumably cuts down on odor and extends longevity) - $30.7K
• Winterization air pressure flush system (clear out external water taps with compressed air) - $4.2K Now I know - this is a Hi-Latitude/ NW Passage boat. ....

Black good, maybe. Red, not so great, I think.

"Sanitary piping" -- if toilet-related stuff, should likely NOT be metal... some mixture of PVC and hose instead. I can blow out our external water taps with a portable $100 air compressor.

A second CableMaster sounds maybe useful, as when there are shorepower connection at the bow and stern of the boat. Or in case this is a twin (50A?) boat.

Internal air flow on many boats sucks, especially with fixed windows all round. I'd guess upgraded insulation would be useful no matter whether north or south; keep the cold out, or hold the AC in... and the thicker saloon glass might contribute to that too?

I could go either way with the flybridge enclosure... depending on how the boat gets used. If the upper helm is only for best weather, bag the full enclosure, but maybe do just the front -- with opening panels. (We've had wave splash blown up and over our flybridge...) If the upper helm is for most times and the bridge is air conditioned/heated, enclose it all. If the latter, provision for easily opening several panels for better natural air flow would be good.

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

How do you plan to use the boat? That will impact several of the items.

 

[tiltrider1]

I am naturally extremely frugal. The prices naturally caused me to react negatively. I don’t know anything about the OP or what he can afford or what he should be considering.

I know that when I bought a new car most people cringed at my option list. A SUV that could have been bought at $55,000 turned into $90,000 by the time I wrote the check. It goes 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and can tow 8,000 lbs. Who needs to do both? However, it’s what I wanted and I thought it was cheap as my other consideration was $125,000.

My point is I need context to understand the buyer and the mission to give any meaningful comment.

Some options could be good or bad depending on the mission. Complexity is an issue on mission critical items but on non critical systems it doesn’t matter if they become inoperable. I prefer spares to backup systems but if you are not mechanical then backup systems it is.

 

[Mako]

"Complexity is an issue on mission critical items but on non critical systems it doesn’t matter if they become inoperable. I prefer spares to backup systems but if you are not mechanical then backup systems it is."

This is a good statement. People need to differentiate to what we call (in aerospace) Mission-Critical versus Mission-Important, and I suppose we can add Luxury as a 3rd category.

For example (and this is contentious), for Critical I would consider very few systems on a long range, bluewater, independent vessel: engine, fuel, potable water. Important would be ground tackle, autopilot, etc.

Mission Critical is survival, so to what Tiltrider1 says, do you want backup systems or spares, and how complex??

 

[mvweebles]

How do you plan to use the boat? That will impact several of the items.

This, along with 'what kind of boat?' has been asked several times. Apparently under lock & key along with nuclear launch codes. Either the OP knows and is being coy, or doesn't know and is planning an Abrams Tank of a boat to survive Perfect Storm just-in-case.

I know that when I bought a new car most people cringed at my option list. A SUV that could have been bought at $55,000 turned into $90,000 by the time I wrote the check. It goes 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and can tow 8,000 lbs. Who needs to do both? However, it’s what I wanted and I thought it was cheap as my other consideration was $125,000.

I'll use your car/truck analogy but in a different way. Cars come with a ton of options. Why not just tick boxes when it comes to buying a boat - the checklist in Post #1 from the OP???

Why not??? Because unlike cars where the OEM controls the entire ecosystem, boats are a Box-O-Parts sourced from dozens/hundreds of different niche providers, some of which the builder has no knowledge of because the buyer has find obscure stuff on the internet. With few exceptions, cars are 100% production - 0% custom. Even large respected builders are primarily custom builds. There's a saying in Nordhavn circles: "When you've seen one Nordhavn......you've seen one Nordhavn."

Installing anything is broken into three broad buckets:

Mount the hardware;
Configure the device (or software); and
Integrate into the system.

Mounting is hard. Configuring is harder. Integration often requires specialized tools and skills. Maintenace outside of yachting centers? Ha......try and find support for even vanilla Victron.

Peter