Mastervolt expert needed!

[LeoKa]

I’ve been using my Combimaster 12v/3000w/160a inverter charger this winter. Everything works fine, except I cannot figure out the cooling fan. It is a variable speed fan, which comes on quite frequently. If any of my 12v pumps run, the fan comes on. It will blow for a while, even after the pump is off again. Occasionally it happens with ac load as well, when too many things are running.
These can be accepted and considered normal. However, the fan comes on even when nothing extra is loading. My Easyview display shows only 2-3 amp load, which is my heating circulation pumps load and are always on.
The unit is located in the salon, since it is charging LFP batteries only, so it cannot be in the engine room. There are 4 batteries totaling 680 Ahrs.
If it was a temperature trigger, I could accept that too. However, this also happens when the temp in the salon is around 70F. The fan runs less at night, when the temps are cooler, but 70 degrees should not be a tipping point, in my opinion. What will happen, when summer comes and the salon temp can climb to 90s? The fan cannot be adjusted. There is no settings for it. It is automatic.
I thought about voltage fluctuation from shore power, but the pass through feature should eliminate that possibility.
Any thoughts?

 

[cafesport]

Do you have a master bus network set up? If not you could download the masteradjust software and plug in a laptop to check for programmed events which might be controlling your fan.

 

[Comodave]

We bought 2 24 volt Mastervolt chargers this past winter. I wanted Promariner chargers but they were on backorder and no delivery date. The Mastervolt were a PITA to install. Simple things like DIP switch settings were not in the installation manual. I had to contact Mastervolt support and have them send me the entire manual just to get the settings. And the support wasn’t real user friendly. So good luck but I would call them. Maybe they will be easier to deal with for you.

 

[Bmarler]

sounds similar to the fan on my xantrex inverter/charger. that stupid thing seems like it's always running. it used to bug me, but now i'm used to it.
it seems like either amp draw or temperature activates it and the settings must be pretty sensitive. at least the fan amp draw is pretty small, but i wish it was quieter.

 

[LeoKa]

Do you have a master bus network set up? If not you could download the masteradjust software and plug in a laptop to check for programmed events which might be controlling your fan.

No, there is no network. It is the unit itself and the display connected directly.
Do you have this software? If yes, do you see anything in there regarding to adjusting the fan settings?
I only have iOS devices, so no option for laptop inspection.

 

[McGillicuddy]

My Mastervolt chargers do the same thing. Seems as though this is normal, when they are operating, the cooling fan is on.

I concur with the comment on poor service. My 12/100/3 which is a three bank smart charger is showing no input voltage and therefore stopped charging. My multimeter shows I am getting 120v at the input terminal. I could find no one in the states who had any idea how to fix it. The dealers said “we just sell them, we don’t fix them.” I called the head office in the Netherlands and asked for technical support. A
lady answered who had poor understanding of English but gave me her email and told me to describe the problem in writing. She did answer in two days saying to try power down for a few minutes and restart. If that didn’t work contact a local dealer. It didn’t work so I am back to where I started. It’s not like these things are cheap. They are supposed to be top of the line. I expected better.

 

[sunchaser]

Leo
Possibly everything is working as it should. A charger/inverter's cooling fan(s) work off the temperature inside the unit and also are triggered by called for activity in anticipation of a heat buildup. The ambient temperature plays little role other than allowing cooler air to be drawn in. With your IR gun watch the box temperature which may provide some insight.

 

[LeoKa]

Leo
Possibly everything is working as it should. A charger/inverter's cooling fan(s) work off the temperature inside the unit and also are triggered by called for activity in anticipation of a heat buildup. The ambient temperature plays little role other than allowing cooler air to be drawn in. With your IR gun watch the box temperature which may provide some insight.

I have a temp meter next to the inverter about a feet away. At 70-71 F the fan comes on. Sometimes, not always. I don’t have data from the summer temps, yet. I hope I don’t need to buy an a/c just to cool the charger.
I will try your IR idea.
I just wish there was a way to look into the fan settings.

 

[LeoKa]

Leo. With your IR gun watch the box temperature which may provide some insight.

Just tested with IR. The box shows between 74-76F. It seems that is the trigger temp for the fan.

 

[HTurner]

Just tested with IR. The box shows between 74-76F. It seems that is the trigger temp for the fan.

What is the temperature of the inside components? I would say it is significantly higher...

 

[LeoKa]

What is the temperature of the inside components? I would say it is significantly higher...

I suspect higher. Components generate heat.
I need to figure out extra cooling for the summer months. Perhaps a potable a/c for the salon area.

 

[sunchaser]

Leo

Hard to see the need for more cooling being as you're located in the PNW.

Our inverter charger does fine with an external box temperature of 100F. It is located in the ER. Battery temperatures should be your main worry with charge acceptance decreasing as case temperatures climb above 80F. Low in the bilge keeps ours happy.

 

[LeoKa]

Leo

Hard to see the need for more cooling being as you're located in the PNW.

Our inverter charger does fine with an external box temperature of 100F. It is located in the ER. Battery temperatures should be your main worry with charge acceptance decreasing as case temperatures climb above 80F. Low in the bilge keeps ours happy.

The inverter works fine. My problem is the fan, which comes on to cool too often and around 70F degrees room temperature.
My lithium batteries do not generate heat.
Does your inverter run the cooling fan at 100F, or less?

 

[Bmarler]

The inverter works fine. My problem is the fan, which comes on to cool too often and around 70F degrees room temperature.
My lithium batteries do not generate heat.
Does your inverter run the cooling fan at 100F, or less?

mine sure does. but i haven't measured the internal temperature of it either. you can be sure that the innards are significantly warmer than the case. my unit is down low in the boat, but in it's own compartment that stays around 65 to 70 degrees. my fans run a lot. when ever i'm pulling power to run the heating system, or any other continuous load the fans are on or cycling regularly.
some controllers will let you look at the internal temperature, i take it mastervolt doesn't have that?

 

[Bmarler]

i looked through my manual. (i know it's a different brand, but i'd be surprised if it was significantly different) on mine, the controller looks at the fet's, the power board, and the transformer temperatures. on the fet's anything over 104f will trigger the fans to run.
some power devices run cooler when fully on, so small loads can sometimes produce more heat as the circuit is less efficient.
104f is not very hot in the grand scheme of things, so it's not surprising to me that the fans are on so much of the time.

 

[LeoKa]

It seems that the unit is doing what it suppose to. Cools the inside parts often. I am not used to it because my older inverter I used is in the ER. I rarely hear it.
I am searching for a cabinet cooling solution, with silent fans and temp sensor. I understand that the charger needs constant cooling to be safe. Hopefully the added cooling fans will keep the cabinet cool enough to stop the need of the charger blowing air over and over. Check this out:
www.coolerguys.com

 

[LeoKa]

While I was thinking about this fan trigger, I saw something, which made me thinking about air flow inside the charger. It is recommended to mount the unit upwards. I did. I believe the reason for it is the necessary and natural air flow strait through the housing, unless there is an additional cooling fixture is added nearby. My charger is inside a cabinet, which has no doors. I figured, it will be enough air in there to provide the required air flow. Maybe there is, but the fans pull air inside from the top and push it out at the bottom. When I measured the temp during fan cooling, the top section of the box was close to 100F or above. The bottom in the middle, where the air is coming out was 104-106F. That is quite high.
I realized that the top of the box was very close to the shelf above it, which could interfere with the needed airflow. I decided to cut a hole above the charger and open it for air. I hope this will allow a steady natural airflow and there parts inside will stay cooler. It might even reduce the frequency of these cooling cycles.
I’ll report back in few days.

 

[Comodave]

When I have electronics inside a fairly small cabinet I routinely put in air intake/exhaust vents to help solve that problem. On our last boat I even put in a small muffin fan to exhaust the hot air from the cabinet. The one I used only used 50 mAmps so it wasn’t much of a draw. I just used a switch to power it figured that the current draw was so small that it didn’t matter. I just turned it on in the beginning of the summer and let it run. I got it on Amazon.

Noctua NF-F12 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (120mm, Brown)

 

[LeoKa]

Just to update my story, it seems the problem is solved. The charger has been quiet for two days now. The fan does come on when a pump is used, but not any other time. This is very good. The reason I bought this model because it comes with variable speed cooling fan. My previous charger was blowing only at high speed and it was very loud.
If this Mastervolt stays quiet like this, the cut out of the upper shelf has solved the issue. Now there is a constant airflow inside the unit, which is enough to keep the temp between 70-80F. At least that is what I measure on the box. I am sure during the summer months it will heat up enough to trigger the fan again, but I can solve that with an a/c unit inside the salon.

 

[Bmarler]

your post made me look at the xantrex manual for mounting position on my unit. it makes total sense to orient it so natural convection helps air flow through as heat rises.
xantrex however, says that orientation is the only non-approved position (for mine anyway)
they only want air to move sideways through it for some reason. mine is in a cabinet too, but there's a big louvered panel for the fans to exhaust through. i might do as dave mentioned and put a muffin fan to assist. my fans run a lot, and it's not even close to summer temperatures yet.

 

[cafesport]

As I recall the manual gave specific clearances for mounting with regards to proper ventilation. The thermistor in the case determines the cooling fans speed. Some people have removed it and gone with their own muffin fans. Pushing and pulling air from the mounting cabinet could help you if summer temps get too high.

 

[LeoKa]

As I recall the manual gave specific clearances for mounting with regards to proper ventilation. The thermistor in the case determines the cooling fans speed. Some people have removed it and gone with their own muffin fans. Pushing and pulling air from the mounting cabinet could help you if summer temps get too high.

That is my plan, too. Since there are other electronics in the cabinet, better circulation will be important. The weather is still cool here, so it is working normally. Summer is still a question mark. I will get the fans toon and bottom with sensors.

 

[LeoKa]

your post made me look at the xantrex manual for mounting position on my unit. it makes total sense to orient it so natural convection helps air flow through as heat rises.

xantrex however, says that orientation is the only non-approved position (for mine anyway)

they only want air to move sideways through it for some reason. mine is in a cabinet too, but there's a big louvered panel for the fans to exhaust through. i might do as dave mentioned and put a muffin fan to assist. my fans run a lot, and it's not even close to summer temperatures yet.

I had a Xantrex before the Mastervolt. I had the same problem with the cooling fan as yours. It was blowing like crazy many times, even though it was horizontally mounted and with more distance from any panels in the cabinet. It was annoying. It had other problems, so I returned it for refund. It took 7 months to get my money back.
The Mastervolt is larger by size and it is not recommended to mount it horizontally. Hence the problem with proper cooling. Now that there is free airflow, it works very nicely and the variable speed fan is much less irritating then the other model was.

 

[LeoKa]

Leo
Possibly everything is working as it should. A charger/inverter's cooling fan(s) work off the temperature inside the unit and also are triggered by called for activity in anticipation of a heat buildup. The ambient temperature plays little role other than allowing cooler air to be drawn in. With your IR gun watch the box temperature which may provide some insight.

Could you tell me more about the activity in anticipation feature? I could not find anything about this on the Mastervolt site.
My cooling fan issue came back after two days. When I cut the hole above it, it become silent for two days. Now it is cooling again at normal load and no change in draw.
I know I need to add more airflow to the inside space of the cabinet, but it seems that this fan cooling is not just temp related. The temps are lower now on the housing, around 70-75F, versus the prior 85-100F I had. Still, it is hard to reason, why would the fan come on, unless your theory has some deeper meaning and the charger is programmed to cool for different reasons, not just higher temps.

 

[Bmarler]

I’ve been monitoring my xantrex for this too. I find the fans run quite a lot at low output. I think it was mentioned the fet’s can run hot at partial output. I think that’s what I’m seeing. I have a small thermocouple I’m going to insert into the cabinet and see if I can pick up the temp inside. Like you, I’m wondering how it’s going to act during warm summer weather.
The fans draw very power, but they’re kinda noisy. I can hear them from my bunk. all I need is another thing to think about when I should be sleeping.

 

[sunchaser]

Could you tell me more about the activity in anticipation feature? I could not find anything about this on the Mastervolt site.
My cooling fan issue came back after two days. When I cut the hole above it, it become silent for two days. Now it is cooling again at normal load and no change in draw.
I know I need to add more airflow to the inside space of the cabinet, but it seems that this fan cooling is not just temp related. The temps are lower now on the housing, around 70-75F, versus the prior 85-100F I had. Still, it is hard to reason, why would the fan come on, unless your theory has some deeper meaning and the charger is programmed to cool for different reasons, not just higher temps.

With the detailed internal schematics of your specific charger/inverter you will be able to see what relays or micro switches operating parameters are for triggering the fan. Bottom line, the unit will generate internal heat no matter what the outside temperature thus asking for air circulation, a perfectly normal condition.

When on dock power, a sure fire way to quiet the inverter during the charge cycle is to install an inverter bypass switch. For those times when the inverter may fail this switch keeps your vessel operational plus if you are at a new dock wiring GFIC location it eliminates the inverter as a pedestal tripping problem.

 

[cafesport]

Check the manual for your model. The ultra series allow you to program the fan via the master bus after you set the dip switches to allow for silent mode. By default I believe the fan runs at 100% when ever the inverter output or charger output is over 50% of capacity. In silent mode default is 36% and adjustable from 25-100.

 

[LeoKa]

Check the manual for your model. The ultra series allow you to program the fan via the master bus after you set the dip switches to allow for silent mode. By default I believe the fan runs at 100% when ever the inverter output or charger output is over 50% of capacity. In silent mode default is 36% and adjustable from 25-100.

Are you referring to Mastervolt model? The manual does not offer any information like this. At least I could not see it.
I’ve ordered the Mastershunt, to gather more information about my batteries and charging, but that still does not allow configurations.
The software the company offers does allow some, but it only works with a laptop running Microsoft system. I wish they had Bluetooth for my iPad.

 

[LeoKa]

With the detailed internal schematics of your specific charger/inverter you will be able to see what relays or micro switches operating parameters are for triggering the fan. Bottom line, the unit will generate internal heat no matter what the outside temperature thus asking for air circulation, a perfectly normal condition.



When on dock power, a sure fire way to quiet the inverter during the charge cycle is to install an inverter bypass switch. For those times when the inverter may fail this switch keeps your vessel operational plus if you are at a new dock wiring GFIC location it eliminates the inverter as a pedestal tripping problem.

I don’t think Mastervolt will provide with detailed schematics to a regular buyer.

The inverter part of this unit is turned off, when I am at the dock. The a/c does go through a bypass switch, which is part of this charger/inverter.

Again, I can understand a fan coming on when a sudden draw happens from a macerator or water pressure pump. This happens regularly and the fan runs for less then a minute and goes back to standby. My dilemma is about the fan running out of the blue, when no sudden draw happens. In cases like this, the fan runs longer, for several minutes, before it quiets down. At least the display does not show any sign of act changes, when this happens.
It is certainly temperature dependent, because this happens much less at night, or not at all. I just have a hard time to justify the low temp requirement for this unit to be silent. If the temp is lower then 65F, the unit is quiet. If the surrounding area is reaching 70f, the on and off fan run is more and more.
I’ve ordered cabinet cooling fans, which I’ll install soon. Let’s see what happens, when the cabinet has constant airflow all the time?

 

[wkearney99]

View attachment 128154

Well no wonder it's running the fan a lot, you've got it jammed into a locker!

I’ve ordered cabinet cooling fans, which I’ll install soon. Let’s see what happens, when the cabinet has constant airflow all the time?

Or considering pulling a duct line off the AC to dump some conditioned into the cabinet. That or place the fans somewhere there's more fresh air and run a 3-4" duct line to push/pull air through the cabinet. I did something like that for a home theater cabinet with ducts to/from a space below that was better insulated for sound. No added noise at the cabinet itself. Likewise our bathroom showers at home all have remote Fantech units.

Meanwhile, that wiring job... needs help. It's never a great idea to have sections dangling from gear, especially not along edges. You're just asking for trouble from boat motion causing wear through the insulation. There's various ways to secure wiring, perhaps something like some stainless rod bent to a useful form could act as a tie-down bridge.