Marshall vs Carver

[Tellico Bob]

Not trying to start a fight but when we were looking at 48 MY Californians to buy we started with a 1986 Marshall built model. That deal went south for awhile and we looked at several Carver built models. The first thing we noticed was the Salon seemed smaller. The entire forward section was different with the bunks charged to a Queen and everything switch port to starboard. It wasn't until much later and we had purchased the 86 we started with that I was on a friend 1990 55MYCP built by Carver that I discovered that the changes they made forward of the salon cost them 2' in the Salon and ER. I was with another friend yesterday at the Knoxville Boat Show working the USPS booth and he mentioned that his 45 MY had the Queen forward and he wished he had the bunks that I had. I also had a new transducer install last week and confirmed that in 86 the hull is solid and not cored. We couldn't be happier with our boat and love every day we send on it. I would like to hear from anyone that knows of other differences.

 

[bayview]

I had a 97 Carver 440 which I think grew out of those models. Huge salon, small forward cabin with a berth to port for two very friendly people. Big ER solid core hull bottom.
I didnt care about the forward cabin. The salon, Wasger, dryer and ER appealed to me.
great hull design with good anti roll chines, small keel. Worked well in trawerl mode or on plane up to 23 Kts

 

[Baker]

I had a 97 Carver 440 which I think grew out of those models. Huge salon, small forward cabin with a berth to port for two very friendly people. Big ER solid core hull bottom.
I didnt care about the forward cabin. The salon, Wasger, dryer and ER appealed to me.
great hull design with good anti roll chines, small keel. Worked well in trawerl mode or on plane up to 23 Kts

Maybe they listened to the customers based on what the OP was saying. I am currently looking for a 445. There are only 4 on the market. 2 have the smaller B series Cummins(I want the C series). One is landlocked in Kentucky. ANd the other is WAY overpriced in Wisconsin. They only made the 445 for 2 years bridging the 440 to the 455/6. The 455/6 were ugly/weird looking and had a different interior layout that I did not like. I could deal with ugly...but not the interior layout. IOW, if she ain't pretty she better have a good personality.

The 440 and 445 are almost exactly the same. There are a few differences. A small but very significant difference is on the 445, if you look at the stern you will notice a bulge sticking out from the aft cabin It is not even noticeable unless you know it is there. It is approx. 12 inches give or take. That is where the head of the aft berth starts. So what that does is free up 12 inches of space at the foot of the bed and makes the aft berth look HUGE. That bulge would not look right on the 440 because of the bolted on swim platform. The 445 has a molded in swim platform so it flows with the bulge better. ON the 440 it would just stick out.

Just mentioning because it is very small things that make a huge difference on space...or our perception of space. The main difference on the newer 455/6 boats is the galley and salon are on the same level. In theory, I like this a lot better. But for some reason it makes the space appear smaller. The 440/445 have a HUGE salon. The 455/6 seems like the salon is small.

 

[Tellico Bob]

Getting back to Marshall vs Carver I took a measurement from the bottom of the stairs from the aft deck to the edge of the stairs to the galley and found the 48's built after 1986 under Carver are 2'4" shorter. This same 2'4" is lost in the ER also. In 86 the aft fuel tank is on top of the water tank in the Master Stateroom and the water tank is fiberglass molded into the hull just above the keel. I am sure that some of these changes were the result of the 10% tax that lasted from 1990 to 1992 and almost destroyed the boating industry. It was around 1992 that the mold for the 45 and 48MY was destroyed. The biggest mistake Carver made was the changes in the galley and forward stateroom. Having been on both designs the only positive thing I can see is a full size Refrigerator except my Norcold works great, runs on 12 volts and switches to 110 when available. Full size ref can not do this without an inverter.

 

[bayview]

I liked the galley down and did not like the galley location on the 445. Seemed to be designed to be acessable from the aft deck.

I had the Cs and can confirm they were great and never seemed over worked moving a 38,000# boat.

 

[Baker]

I liked the galley down and did not like the galley location on the 445. Seemed to be designed to be acessable from the aft deck.

I had the Cs and can confirm they were great and never seemed over worked moving a 38,000# boat.

The 440 and 445 were almost exact. You are thinking of the 455 and 456. And I am in total agreement with you.

Tellico, were the Marshall and Carver allegedly the same boat? It seems you are comparing a 48 and a 45 and then make mention of a 3 foot disparity. If they are the same, the space had to go somewhere...

 

[Tellico Bob]

No I am comparing a 48 Marshall to a 48 Carver built after the sale. Same mold was used for both. The forward changes made by Carver moved the galley aft by 2' therefore making the ER and the Salon 2' shorter. The 55 CPMY was made from the same mold with an added 7' CP attached to the stern. If you look closely you can see the seam. Engines sit in the same spot but the shaft is 7' longer and runs at a lesser angle. They must of had a seperate mold for the 45.

 

[bayview]

I think they lost the keel after the 445 so it is probably a very different hull.

 

[Tellico Bob]

Bayview,

Were talking about Californians built by Marshall and Carver from the same mold and the interior changes to the design by Carver. Carver 440 and 445
have nothing to do with this thread. Please stay focused.

 

[Capt. Jon]

Bob, are you referring to Tustin built boats and east coast built boats? Our early 1988 Tustin built boat is right after the sale. I have looked at a lot of Californians and there are lots of differences between the Tustin built and east coast boats of the same year. Once we zeroed in on a Californian we knew we wanted a Tustin built boat.

 

[Tellico Bob]

Capt. Jon,
I believe you were on my boat prior to me buying it. What is the forward layout of your CPMY. Were east coast boats built from the same mold as Tustin built boats or was a different mold used and what if any were the difference? My 1986 48MY was built in Tustin. Where were the east coast boats built. I have been told by people who claim to know that Californians were built at both a Carver plant in NC and also in a building constructed at the Hatteras site. Since the final sale to Carver took place in late 1986 did Carver then build boats at the Tustin plant going forward. I have a 1989 catalog that shows a different forward layout than I have. Queen vs bunks in the forward cabin and galley to Port. I will be making the trip from Nashville to Knoxville in October. Will we be near you when we're in Alabama?

 

[seasalt007]

I had a 1989 45' Tustin built Carver Californian with a Queen forward and a large salon. I had a friend who had a same year Tustin built 48' cockpit which is the 42' MY with a cockpit. Much smaller inside especially in the salon and laundry areas. All these boats had either CAT's or DD's, Mine had DD's.

In the same time period they built some 48 MY's and the 52 and 55 cockpit and unless I am mistaken the 52 and 55 had DD 92 series engines. The 48 MY is a ? in my mind engine wise.

My 45 MY with DD 6-71TIB's would do over 20 kts and was very well built with an excellent lay out.

The only problem was with the planing hull the props were the lowest hanging features under the boat.

 

[Capt. Jon]

Capt. Jon,
I believe you were on my boat prior to me buying it. What is the forward layout of your CPMY. Were east coast boats built from the same mold as Tustin built boats or was a different mold used and what if any were the difference? My 1986 48MY was built in Tustin. Where were the east coast boats built. I have been told by people who claim to know that Californians were built at both a Carver plant in NC and also in a building constructed at the Hatteras site. Since the final sale to Carver took place in late 1986 did Carver then build boats at the Tustin plant going forward. I have a 1989 catalog that shows a different forward layout than I have. Queen vs bunks in the forward cabin and galley to Port. I will be making the trip from Nashville to Knoxville in October. Will we be near you when we're in Alabama?

Yes, yours is one of the boats we looked at. Really wanted a cockpit which has worked out well for us. All of the boats I've been on with the queen berth forward have the galley on the port side while the bunk configurations were a mirror image.

To my knowledge the Tustin built boats and the NC built boats were all different tooling. After being on board 20 or so different Californians you can really tell the difference. One way is just to look at the radar arch. Tustin built boats the arch lays further aft at an angle where the NC built are slightly more vertical. Also the build quality seems different when you have each side by side. As far as I know the boats were built in their own plant in NC. I know nothing about them being built in the Hatters plant and have never found anything in writing about this. I have a news article somewhere from California about the opening of the plant in NC and the eventual closing of the Tustin plant which I think happened 1990 or so. Our boat is a 1988 model and was built in May of 1987. I know the owner of another 48' cpmy that was the next hull number after ours. His interior if far different and has the bunks forward with the galley to starboard. Seems they are just all different. If you start looking at boats built after 1986 you will see some of the interiors had lovured doors on some and panel doors on others. Insides are mostly teak but some like ours are a combination of boats teak and walnut. Guess they were trying to use up what they had.

If you come south you will go right by us as we moved Waypoint to Demopolis, Al. We will do some fall cruises up the Black Warrior river then head down to Florida at some point. Give us a shout when you head our way.

 

[knotheadcharters]

I have an '89 48 Carver Californian with Queen forward and galley port. I would not have bought the boat without the queen fwd or the full size fridge. I also have a saloon helm station. I do not use it but the redundency is nice. The only complaint I do have is the showers are small. Not that that really matters but that is my one complaint. Everything else is right. I believe as a liveaboard you cannot go wrong. I have the 3 stateroom layout and use the midberth as a walk in closet. The aft deck is the bell of the ball. I have not seen a larger back deck on any other 48 foot boat and even some larger boats. I have the 485hp 671TIB's-DD's and would not want the Cats other than they are smaller and leave more room to work around, but I prefer the Detroit over any diesel. Not worth an argument, as a professional Mariner, I have seen DD's with hundreds of thousands of hours on them. Don't overheat them and change the oil. No, not the old wives tale of every hundred hours either. Maybe 250-300. The EMD's in the research vessel I work on, the oil gets changed every 2800 hours. These ships never shut down and work 24/7 365 days a year.