Marketing XPM78 Mobius sisterships

[Mako]

Looks like Naval Yachts in Turkey is really marketing the Mobius-style of yachts, offering a variety of sizes as well (with Gardner diesels). https://navalyachts.com/EN/naval-yacht/new-build/xpm-78

Looks like you can get out the door for $2M. https://www.seaboats.net/new-build-23.90m-extreme-exploration-passage-maker-xpm78-v.1-1474036

Will be curious to see what the market demand is.

 

[Hippocampus]

No question in my mind if we didn’t give up blue water this would be at the top of the list. Don’t know actual build time (is 18m real? )but suspect it would be better than for Nordhavn at this point in time. Although that market is small it’s experienced and educated to what’s needed for that program. Think with what’s happening n the world at large is another incentive to go this way. The right vessel at the right time. Suspect the market is there as more people become aware of the advantages.

 

[mcarthur]

78 feet long, 45 tonne, but 14knots with just 120hp. That's slippery.

 

[Jmarsh203]

Definitly copying the dashew boats, much much cheaper though, would like to know how they can build a 78 foot boat at a cost of $2m.

 

[Jeff F]

...would like to know how they can build a 78 foot boat at a cost of $2m.

Exchange rates are certainly a factor.

 

[Jmarsh203]

Yea the dollar dropping in value would make the cost of boat prices go up not down. And even with a high value currency to something like the British pound it would still be only something like $2.3min usd. Don’t know exactly what they were going for but I believe the fpb 64s were still going for over 4mil new and the used market I haven’t seen one lower than 2 mil so…. Again don’t see any way that the boat could be made for anything near 2m unless it’s a hull with maybe an engine and that’s a big maybe.

 

[Jeff F]

Yea the dollar dropping in value would make the cost of boat prices go up not down.

It would. But it's the Turkish currency that's dropped in value against USD, by something like 50% in the past year.

 

[ktdtx]

I follow the Mobius blog and am regularly impressed with his (their) skills, knowledge and patience.
I also used to think the Gardner diesel was the gold standard if I was going to travel the world...but...after seeing him remove and replace the original engine multiple times, replace injectors, crankshafts, etc on a newly redone engine and then after 50 to 75 hours of use just scrap the whole thing and send it back to Gardner for a new engine is just mind boggling to me.


I certainly hope he gets it right and gets to "see the world" on his boat.

 

[Fletcher500]

I have always liked these designs. If we were doing the hard core blue water cruising thing, this is probably the boat I would order. The Mobius folks are highly experienced, smart, and know what they want from their past boat experience which is impressive. Personally, I wouldn't put a Gardner in it. There is a lot of dock talk about electronic diesels (including on this website by people who don't have any time cruising with them). They are perfectly suited for long range boats like this. That's my opinion based on having them in our past two boats, and speaking to many other boat owners who travel extensively with them including blue water. The Mobius people know what they want and that is one of the great things about ordering a new boat and choosing the power plant. And, not having to wonder what things the previous owner did, or did not do to their engine.

 

[dannc]

I follow the Mobius blog and am regularly impressed with his (their) skills, knowledge and patience.
I also used to think the Gardner diesel was the gold standard if I was going to travel the world...but...after seeing him remove and replace the original engine multiple times, replace injectors, crankshafts, etc on a newly redone engine and then after 50 to 75 hours of use just scrap the whole thing and send it back to Gardner for a new engine is just mind boggling to me.

I certainly hope he gets it right and gets to "see the world" on his boat.

Yeah, the problems with the engine in Mobius frustrate me, and it ain't my boat.

Having said that, Wayne is an experienced diesel mechanic so I think it was a low risk decision on their part to put in a Gardner but the die rolls went against them. Stuff happens.

The fuel issue due to itty bitty pieces of rubber was mind boggling and frustrating, and again, it ain't my boat. The latest issue was more of the same and it will be interesting to see if the diagnosis is correct.

The problems he has with the batteries is also frustrating but that was a gamble as well on a technology that was sorta new and has no competition. Seems like his die roll went bad there as well.

The issue with the bow thruster was really disappointing because that was/is a build/design issue. Curious about what is happening with the water heater.

Having said that, I think their picking the Gardner, and now upping the HP, is/was the right choice. Sometimes you just get bitten. I can't imagine how frustrating this has to be for them.

Later,
Dan

 

[Simi 60]

Exchange rates are certainly a factor.View attachment 131686

But aren't the Dashew variant built in NZ?
NZD to USD is $0.61 so not much difference.

 

[Jeff F]

But aren't the Dashew variant built in NZ?
NZD to USD is $0.61 so not much difference.

Right. NZD is down 10% on USD vs 12 months ago. Turkish Lira is down 55%. That gives the Turkish builder tremendous pricing advantage, at least in the near term.

*** All other things being equal [emoji6]

I was in the sailboat business when the French Wave really got going. In 1985 we were looking at these boats coming off the ships and wondering how they could possibly be that cheap.

 

[Hippocampus]

And Circa definitely has the track record. Furthermore your not supporting a county run by a dictator. The 24m built to date are magnificent.

 

[Simi 60]

And Circa definitely has the track record. Furthermore your not supporting a county run by a dictator. The 24m built to date are magnificent.

There's a joke in there somewhere - sourpuss and dictator

 

[darkside]

Build at Circa and get to visit Whangarei, the Riviera of the South Pacific.
They do build a good boat but way too focused on the voyage rather than enjoying living when you get there for my tastes.

 

[Mako]

"... way too focused on the voyage rather than enjoying living when you get there..."

To me the long skinnies, despite their seaworthiness and economy, only really become attractive if they also offer the advantage of low purchase price. That XPM78 at $2M does not offer that as there are so many other (used, but young) options on the market for that budget. Heck, even a brand new KK or Nordy 50-ish would be an option.

Now if the builder in Turkey offers that 78 perhaps in steel, a bit more displacement okay, built out like Long Course's 62, simpler interior fit out and systems, and drops the price below $1M, now you're really talking business.

 

[Chris Leigh-Jones]

Explorer Yachts XPM-78

My wife and I own the sister ship to Mobius being also 78 foot and being built by Naval Yachts. A friend is also 9 months behind with a bigger 85 foot version also at Naval Yachts. We visited 2 years back and agreed a build contract March 2022. There is a thread here about our build though its updated only sporadically. The build will be 20 months or so with launch set for March 2023. The Yard have been great to work with and build standard so far is good. It's a very sturdy design for both Mobius and ours though internally they are different configurations. Our drive is twin JD 4045 as we are constrained by US EPA Tier III requirements under a US Flag, same goes for the tender, also diesel being built at Hebbeke in Netherlands. We wanted yacht built to our specification and are lucky enough to have the funds. Having said that, Naval Yachts agreed a very good price vs buying existing. I'll let them define what that means. There are some distinct design similarities to an aforementioned FPB but the Nav Architect (Artnautica) has also his own input so it's familial rather than a copy. My wife, Sebrina, also insisted on a paint job, best not debate that one. Hope this helps shed a little light on the subject.

 

[twistedtree]

I’ve been wondering how Mobius has worked around various emissions standards with the Gardner. Obviously they found a way, probably flagged where the EU standards do not apply.

 

[sunchaser]

Fifteen years ago Dashew's Set Sail website outlined in great detail the reasons for going with JD 4045s on the first FPB, Windhorse. It would appear you arrived at similar logic CLJ in choosing a similar engine setup. Nice color!

 

[Simi 60]

The hulls are long and thin enough that they could likely be done in a power tri format powered by an 855 Cummins.
Sort of like the not as slippery "poor man's" Adastra
https://www.mcconaghyboats.com/adastra

Kasten design had a bit of a look at this in an alloy 60 and 80, though considerably more restrained and lighter build
http://www.kastenmarine.com/PowerTrimaran.htm

The Cummins would have cheaper and easier to source parts and just about anywhere on the planet will have somone who can work on them.

 

[Chris Leigh-Jones]

Fifteen years ago Dashew's Set Sail website outlined in great detail the reasons for going with JD 4045s on the first FPB, Windhorse. It would appear you arrived at similar logic CLJ in choosing a similar engine setup. Nice color!

You maybe credit me with too much intelligence Mr Sunchaser. Truth is, I read through Setsail.com, saw the logic, agreed with it not withstanding the time elapsed so chose the same agricultural engines then added the modern hybrid drive. Simples! as the advert would have it. Could have gone with Cummins also but their lowest power is too much for the application. I think the big sister 85' design has chosen Scania.

 

[dannc]

I’ve been wondering how Mobius has worked around various emissions standards with the Gardner. Obviously they found a way, probably flagged where the EU standards do not apply.

Mobius is flagged in Jersey.

Later,
Dan

 

[Simi 60]

. Could have gone with Cummins also but their lowest power is too much for the application. .

B3.3 natural is 65 hp

 

[KnotYet]

B3.3 natural is 65 hp

If they wanted a marinized Cummins, the B4.5L at 150 hp is the
smallest offering for propulsion use.

 

[Simi 60]

If they wanted a marinized Cummins, the B4.5L at 150 hp is the
smallest offering for propulsion use.

I have 2 marinised B3.3 as propulsion engines in another vessel.
They have been sold for years.


https://www.tadiesels.com/cu-B3.3M.html

Not saying they are the engine, merely pointing out that there are smaller Cummins engines out there

 

[KnotYet]

I have 2 marinised B3.3 as propulsion engines in another vessel.
They have been sold for years.

https://www.tadiesels.com/cu-B3.3M.html

Not saying they are the engine, merely pointing out that there are smaller Cummins engines out there

Looks like a good outfit.

Growing up in Illinois, I'll always have a soft spot for the green and yellow.

 

[darkside]

The B3.3 was built in Japan, now in India. I don't think you will get EPA with those

We have changed to using Cummins QSB3.9s and are having good luck with them so far.

 

[mvweebles]

The B3.3 was built in Japan, now in India. I don't think you will get EPA with those

We have changed to using Cummins QSB3.9s and are having good luck with them so far.

Just like thr Beta 75hp, these smaller hp mechanical engines are not requires to meet Tier 3 requirements that are met with electronic controls and common rail.

TAD Diesel is a very high quality company. They have been working with Perkins engines for decades and know a lot about marinization.

Peter

 

[long-cours.62]

Unfortunately

I have always liked these designs. If we were doing the hard core blue water cruising thing, this is probably the boat I would order. The Mobius folks are highly experienced, smart, and know what they want from their past boat experience which is impressive. Personally, I wouldn't put a Gardner in it. T
. And, not having to wonder what things the previous owner did, or did not do to their engine.

In Europe you are not allowed to put this type of engine in a new built...Even the Perkins 6354 we fit on our former "long-cours62" was not longer allowed since , may be, 2012...
EC regulation for "pollution"

 

[long-cours.62]

Yes Long-cours was very simple

"... way too focused on the voyage rather than enjoying living when you get there..."

To me the long skinnies, despite their seaworthiness and economy, only really become attractive if they also offer the advantage of low purchase price. That XPM78 at $2M does not offer that as there are so many other (used, but young) options on the market for that budget. Heck, even a brand new KK or Nordy 50-ish would be an option.

Now if the builder in Turkey offers that 78 perhaps in steel, a bit more displacement okay, built out like Long Course's 62, simpler interior fit out and systems, and drops the price below $1M, now you're really talking business.

but if the price (and my age !!) was not so hight now I will built a (near) similar one.But always in alloy because for example the Long-cours 62's hull in steel (same "strength" ) will be 10.38t heavier than the 11.5T of Long-cours 62.
It means full load we will pass from 32.5T to 42.88 T

May be 25% more hp to run at 9kts , +33% to run at 10kts.
But in another hand how many nautical mille we do per years ?
Say 2000nm/year : + 785l per year, ok now 1.8€/lt 1400€per year.
But also more paint job, little bigger rope, chain anchor, 16 cm more draft ok we could surelevated the deck by at less the same 16 cm to keep the same freeboard but with 10t heavier may be you need more freeboard , etc


Also if you built by yourself it is much more easier to work with alloy ( lighter part, easy to cut , inside and top side could be let in raw material.


I contacted Russian boat and ship yard but for the moment they don't answer ..., the Polish one who made an offer to us few year ago was now not interested...Vietnam where we built a boat 30 year ago, shipyard are now owned by...Damen not longer interested.
May be try in...North Korea ? My wifr already said : NO or you go alone
She is more afraid by the country than by the fact to let me alone with nice North Korean women :lol: