Marine Elegance head - Installation and maintenance

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ksanders

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DOS PECES
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BAYLINER 4788
So, my son sent me this photo of the martine elegance head he is installing in his boat today.

Why am i not so impressed? This is supposed to be the head to have... The best.

Here is my challenge.

First it is a down install only, at least from the photo. How do they accomodate boats with no space below the head?

2nd is thinking about the physical installation. With this thing backed up against a wall how do you tighten the hose clamps?
How do you work on it?.

I've worked on a lot of heads. This seems like a real PITA to me. it seems to me that they took a great mechanical design and tried a bit to hard to take away the marine look.

ee75b309-e0e0-4de3-8952-830e4c76db6e.jpeg
 
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So, my son sent me this photo of the martine elegance head he is installing in his boat today.

Why am i not so impressed? This is supposed to be the head to have... The best.

Here is my challenge.

First it is a down install only, at least from the photo. How do they accomodate boats with no space below the head?

2nd is thinking about the physical installation. With this thing backed up against a wall how do you tighten the hose clamps?
How do you work on it?.

I've worked on a lot of heads. This seems like a real PITA to me. it seems to me that they took a great mechanical design and tried a bit to hard to take away the marine look.

View attachment 161536
It isn’t a down only discharge, that is the default but they have a kit for horizontal discharge. You take off 3 screws and slide the head away from the bulkhead and you have access to the hose clamps. It is pretty easy. I have installed them in 4 boats I believe and had no issues installing them and basically no repair issues either. It is the best head IMO.

I wouldn’t disparage something without understanding it. Maybe ask questions first??
 
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It isn’t a down only discharge, that is the default but they have a kit for horizontal discharge. You take off the base surround and you have access to the hose clamps. It is pretty easy. I have installed them in 4 boats I believe and had no issues installing them and basically no repair issues either. It is the best head IMO.

I wouldn’t disparage something without understanding it. Maybe ask questions first??
Thats why I posted.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

Can you take off a panel that will allow access from the sides somehow?

Because it looks to me that you can only access it from the rear, and the unit is designed to butt up against a wall, so that would close off the access.
 
It’s a little like an electrical outlet or switch — you have to have enough slack to make the connections while it’s pulled away from the wall, then you set it back in place on its mounting bracket and it’s installed with 3 screws. Very easy and straightforward, also very easy to remove the 3 screws and pull it forward or sideways.
 
I have installed 3 now and it never occurred to me to be difficult
And no it is away from back wall as much as you want, horizontal or vertical discharge.
It is a DIY project.
 
I overthought it too. I put three of these in my boat with varying space under the floor. I added unions in the bilge area under the toilet in case I needed to take the toilet out. As stated above, there is enough play to do what you need to do without adding any complexity.
 
Best marine head ever ! Installed two over five years ago - no issues
 
OK, Thanks guys!!!

Just looking at the photo my son sent it looks really tough to work on.
 
I installed one on my previous boat and liked it very much. Never had a problem with it. However, I did run into the issues Kevin mentioned above.

The install location was a tight fit in a small head with a horizontal discharge to the right side. The kit they sell has a 90-degree elbow but because of the side porcelain, you can't go directly out the side which caused me to have to bend the discharge hose a bit more that I would have liked.

Also, because the hose run was short to where is passed through the bulkhead, it was a challenge to get to the internals. I replaced the duck bill after a couple years (just because...) and it was tight working on it. Certainly doable, but kinda a pain.

We have composting heads now, but I'd buy one again if in the market. Just commiserating a bit with Kevin's initial impressions.
 
To some this might sound silly but I'm comparing how easy my Vacuflush gear is to access.

i can for example see and touch with both hands... at the same time, all the components of the vacume tank. I can remove a simple cover and access the components of the head.

On the Marine elegance this is a lot harder since the sides are porcelain. The only maintenanbce access is through the back.

If I were to install these in my boat, and I probably will some day when the need arises... I will make sure to probably elongate the hole in the deck for the discharge hose to allow for good maintenance access without removing the hoses first.
 
To some this might sound silly but I'm comparing how easy my Vacuflush gear is to access.

i can for example see and touch with both hands... at the same time, all the components of the vacume tank. I can remove a simple cover and access the components of the head.

On the Marine elegance this is a lot harder since the sides are porcelain. The only maintenanbce access is through the back.

If I were to install these in my boat, and I probably will some day when the need arises... I will make sure to probably elongate the hole in the deck for the discharge hose to allow for good maintenance access without removing the hoses first.
With the Marine Elegance you may never need to touch thing with both hands😉😂
 
Kevin, we installed two of these, have had them for 3 years, and 2 1/2 years, respectively. Absolutely LOVE them. We wanted the straight down, so didn't order the convertible. Also, it doesn't back against the wall, ours are about 4 to 5 inches from the wall, so room to get in there. I had to do that once. Didn't have any difficulty removing the motor assembly. Turned out not to be the head, but an unrelated problem. I'd buy these again in a heartbeat!
 
With the Marine Elegance you may never need to touch thing with both hands😉😂
Thats what people say, and maybe that is correct. Maybe depending on how loong you are cruising, and how long you own the boat you can ride through the "honeymoon" period.

Or maybe not...
 
As an alternative, there's the lower end Raritan Sea Era units. I have one in our forward head and it's been great. The mechanical bits are all exposed, unlike the Marine Elegance. And the discharge joker valve setup isn't as fancy, so a little more care is required with hose routing to avoid it siphoning the bowl dry and things like that. But it's been reliable, and as far as I can tell, it's not at any significant disadvantage to the Marine Elegance from a mechanical perspective.
 
I had vacuflush toilets for more than 20 years. I actually think they’re a great way to go if you understand how they work.
But, due to the difficulty getting to the vacuum generator in our current boat we decided to change to the marine elegance based on all the glowing reports here.
It works ok, but so did the vacuflush. It’s a smaller bowl size, and shorter too. I’m going to add a second riser underneath it to make it more comfortable. (And no, it’s not the short or compact version)
All in all, if the vacuflush generator would have been easy to get to, I’d have stayed with it.
 
To some this might sound silly but I'm comparing how easy my Vacuflush gear is to access.

i can for example see and touch with both hands... at the same time, all the components of the vacume tank. I can remove a simple cover and access the components of the head.

On the Marine elegance this is a lot harder since the sides are porcelain. The only maintenanbce access is through the back.

If I were to install these in my boat, and I probably will some day when the need arises... I will make sure to probably elongate the hole in the deck for the discharge hose to allow for good maintenance access without removing the hoses first.
With the ME most likely you will not need to work on it like the VF heads. No vacuum leaks, all the mechanicals in one location and they just work.
 
Perspective: toilet is held in place with 3 lag bolts, or through bolt/nut, or a combination-like I have on one of my toilets (depends on the strength of your floor). Once removed, slide the toilet out a few inches to get to the two hose’s for discharge and intake water. Once hoses are removed, move toilet to your work area. I’ve had to remove two toilets to work on them. Once to clean the intake water screen, and another time to replace the motor (a guest put something in the toilet that she shouldn’t have). It takes me about 15 minutes to remove a toilet. Ive had the toilets for about 6 years as full time livaboards. Amazing reliability compared to my previous vacuflush head.
 
From all reports Raritan's Marine Elegance is one fine toilet. The ME seems to have a lot of styles, configurations and control features. Maintenance is likely limited to the vent valve & the 2 Joker valves in the discharge line, the vacuum breaker and solenoid valve on the supply line and the macerator pump itself. All of course are buried inside the toilet.

My near 30 year old Headhunter Royal Flush toilets are similar to the ME except they do not have a Macerator motor, Joker valves or a vacuum breaker and the supply line's solenoid valve is easily accessible as it's below deck, 10' away from the toilet. Less parts generally means less maintenance.
The only maintenance I have done in 17 years of ownership (other than cleaning) is to replace a solenoid valve control switch. Instead of the $250 Headhunter version I bought a $10 programmable timer that has worked perfectly for now 8 years.

One other difference may be as these use the pressure in your domestic water supply system to macerate the load, I think you need to use an 1.5" discharge line as the bits can be a bit bigger.
 
The love for the Marine Elegance has evaded me too. It took only one "issue" to convince me that the Sea Era is the right model for me. I appreciate that the service points are all there to access without unbolting anything.
 
...so a little more care is required with hose routing to avoid it siphoning the bowl dry and things like that.
Hmmm, can you expand on that hose routing thing? The hoses to and from my Sea Era heads all rise to the head and drain to their respective tanks.
 
From all reports Raritan's Marine Elegance is one fine toilet. The ME seems to have a lot of styles, configurations and control features. Maintenance is likely limited to the vent valve & the 2 Joker valves in the discharge line, the vacuum breaker and solenoid valve on the supply line and the macerator pump itself. All of course are buried inside the toilet.

My near 30 year old Headhunter Royal Flush toilets are similar to the ME except they do not have a Macerator motor, Joker valves or a vacuum breaker and the supply line's solenoid valve is easily accessible as it's below deck, 10' away from the toilet. Less parts generally means less maintenance.
The only maintenance I have done in 17 years of ownership (other than cleaning) is to replace a solenoid valve control switch. Instead of the $250 Headhunter version I bought a $10 programmable timer that has worked perfectly for now 8 years.

One other difference may be as these use the pressure in your domestic water supply system to macerate the load, I think you need to use an 1.5" discharge line as the bits can be a bit bigger.
Marine Elegance only requires 1” effluent line, but will also use 1.5” (note the stepped hose barb in the picture above). Downside of bigger is much more water required to “clear the line” after flushing….especially if you have a long discharge line.
 
Marine Elegance only requires 1” effluent line, but will also use 1.5” (note the stepped hose barb in the picture above). Downside of bigger is much more water required to “clear the line” after flushing….especially if you have a long discharge line.
Yup, I use 1” discharge hose for that very reason. I have a 36’ discharge hose on our current boat. With 1” it holds about 1.5 gallons and with 1.5” it would hold about 3.5 gallons. So I can do a thorough flushing of the discharge hose with half the water. It take 2 regular flushes to get the stuff into the holding tank. We do short flushes for liquids and a couple of regular flushes for what was solids. But since the ME head macerates it doesn’t have any solids but rather a slurry so clogs are much less likely, particularly if you do a good flush.
 
There are pluses and minuses to each system.
In my situation both toilet’s discharge hose drains completely with only one 5’ section being at a slope of just a bit less than 2:12.

36’ of hose run in a 41’ boat seems like the holding tank location may have held a low priority with the design team.

I can see you rinsing the discharge hose with multiple flushes at the end of a trip with the boat in its slip. Do you also do this rinse with every large deposit?
 
Hmmm, can you expand on that hose routing thing? The hoses to and from my Sea Era heads all rise to the head and drain to their respective tanks.
I found mine would sometimes siphon to the tank past the joker valve and leave the bowl bone dry and a little smelly when the hose just sloped down to the tank. It's now routed so it goes up a few inches from the head discharge and then down to the tank which solved the problem and lets it hold a little bit of water.
 
There are pluses and minuses to each system.
In my situation both toilet’s discharge hose drains completely with only one 5’ section being at a slope of just a bit less than 2:12.

36’ of hose run in a 41’ boat seems like the holding tank location may have held a low priority with the design team.

I can see you rinsing the discharge hose with multiple flushes at the end of a trip with the boat in its slip. Do you also do this rinse with every large deposit?
Formula does everything to an extreme. That can be good or occasionally bad. The holding tank location is problematic but it is what it is. I actually cut the length of the discharge hose down from about 50’ to 36’ so I think I did pretty good.

We do short flushes for liquids and a couple of “ regular “ flushes for solids. Then when we are done using the boat I do multiple regular flushes to clean the discharge hose completely.
 
I found mine would sometimes siphon to the tank past the joker valve and leave the bowl bone dry and a little smelly when the hose just sloped down to the tank. It's now routed so it goes up a few inches from the head discharge and then down to the tank which solved the problem and lets it hold a little bit of water.
Mine does the same thing, though the grade between the joker valve housing and the holding tank entry is all down and nearly constant and I think mine simply drains the bowl rather than siphons the bowl. I'll try blocking the drain line up a couple inches this Spring and see if that changes it. Great stuff! Thank you.
 
not mentioned, you do not secure the head to the floor with three bolts until after connections are made, that gives more access to the backside. Then if you do have to work on it, remove the three bolts first. That reminds me to install the seawater adapter to use if fresh water supply gets too low to waste on waste.
 
So, my son sent me this photo of the martine elegance head he is installing in his boat today.

Why am i not so impressed? This is supposed to be the head to have... The best.

Here is my challenge.

First it is a down install only, at least from the photo. How do they accomodate boats with no space below the head?

2nd is thinking about the physical installation. With this thing backed up against a wall how do you tighten the hose clamps?
How do you work on it?.

I've worked on a lot of heads. This seems like a real PITA to me. it seems to me that they took a great mechanical design and tried a bit to hard to take away the marine look.

View attachment 161536
Is the toilet a vacuum flush or an electric pump/macerator flush? There's a very big difference. I installed 2 Raritan Marine Elegance electric pump/macerator (fresh water) flush toilets on my boat and they were hands down the best creature comfort/convenience improvement I made to the boat. Straight down to the floor plumbing was no problem. I had enough slack in the hoses to let me do whatever I wanted. Too bad they are so ridiculously expensive.
 
I just looked and geeze, they really went up!

I paid about $800 each about 3 years ago and now they are $1200? Amazing.
 
One great thing about Raritan is their support so if you have issues call them (8568254900).
 
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