Making an offer on a boat

[Skymichelle]

Hi,
I'm looking at a $70k boat that i feel is appropriated listed by market value. I know up front that the SP275s are no longer made and some parts are not obtainable but can be fabricated. I don't feel this is a deal breaker but i do feel it affects the negotiating price. That is my dilemma, knowing the difficulty to obtain parts and high financial cost for them will make maintaining the boat more challenging. not imposable but certainly an inconvenience. How do you equate that to a monetary value? I feel asking 15-20% off upfront is not unreasonable combined with results of surveys, sea trail, and oil samples etc. The contract open to repairs, renegotiation or even walk away. Most likely a broker will be involved representing buyer and seller (i know strike 1). Any who - do you think that is fair or am I being unreasonable?

Thanks Y'all!

 

[Delta Riverat]

Make the offer. If it's rejected and re-offered at same you will know.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Hehe, thanks!

Just telling you what I did - Obviously it didn't work either. So, if you like the boat and at that price range you are going to see a lot you don't like, make an offer. Brokers are not your enemy. They would like you to buy the boat and mine was most helpful. The broker is also going to be the best resource for a feeling of how receptive the seller is to your offer. Yeah, he (or she) makes more dough if the price is high, but no dough at all if no sell.

So if you like the boat (after looking at a lot of boats) then make the offer and start the process. My boat to the left is 45 years old with Volvo engines that everyone says to avoid, but hey, they run and we like the boat.

 

[SteveK]

If the boat is listed for "market value" which I take as what similar sells for then why does it make sense to offer less because parts are $$$. I mean the other boats have the same issue, but if you take 15-20% off all of them then they were not priced at "market value" to begin with.

I guess market value to me is what a buyer is willing to pay and seller is willing to accept.

Reality, all boats have expense parts that will need replacing.
Offer what you are willing to pay and have 50% of that ready to spend in the first 3 years to make it yours after fixing things.

 

[Comodave]

If the boat is listed for "market value" which I take as what similar sells for then why does it make sense to offer less because parts are $$$. I mean the other boats have the same issue, but if you take 15-20% off all of them then they were not priced at "market value" to begin with.

I guess market value to me is what a buyer is willing to pay and seller is willing to accept.

Reality, all boats have expense parts that will need replacing.
Offer what you are willing to pay and have 50% of that ready to spend in the first 3 years to make it yours after fixing things.

Agree.

 

[Greg QS]

My opinion If the parts are un supported, or extremely hard to get, It will just be you problem later. Possibly causing loss of season ($$ in sip fees) or the in ability to fix the boat. ( supper $$).
So If your that worried about the availability of parts etc. Move on. There are plenty of boats out there . Be objective.

 

[ranger58sb]

I know up front that the SP275s are no longer made and some parts are not obtainable but can be fabricated.

What's an SP275? And what kind of parts are you on about?

Most "parts" we've needed have been something to do with installed systems -- windlasses, galley appliances, ACs, heads, etc. -- and those are more often semi- "generic" and either replaced or maybe repaired with an existing supply of replacement parts. Things not necessarily to do with boat brand/model.

-Chris

 

[Bmarler]

What's an SP275? And what kind of parts are you on about?

Most "parts" we've needed have been something to do with installed systems -- windlasses, galley appliances, ACs, heads, etc. -- and those are more often semi- "generic" and either replaced or maybe repaired with an existing supply of replacement parts. Things not necessarily to do with boat brand/model.

-Chris

Exactly.
Countless owners out there with boats that are no longer made. As long as you don’t need a new moulded fiberglass factory part or special extruded window frame I can’t imagine what sort of part you’d have trouble with.
Boat builders select from the same suppliers we all get our replacement parts.

 

[Bmarler]

Ohhhh, you mean Lehman sp275s. No worries. There’s big support for lehmans at American diesel.

 

[Gdavid]

Ideally the boat's marketed price should take into account the desirability of all major components already, so a smart owner and/or broker should have factored this into the asking price already. Ultimately you need to be comfortable spending what the boat is worth to you, this is more important than the market.

It sounds like you have already researched the availability and options for attaining the "consumable" parts for this power plant, the next step would be to inquiring about the specific age and condition of said components. Rather than only asking for the condition and hours of the engine, I would ask if they can provide a service history or breakdown of age of specific parts. For example, if the exhaust elbow requires custom fabrication to replace, find out if it has been replaced already, find out how frequently the coolant is replaced and what the operating temps are, see how well the owner knows about this powerplant.

Based on the engine, I'm assuming this boat is at least 30 years old and that significantly limits the buyer pool. Right, wrong or indifferent, Americans have a tendency to buy on credit and if a boat is difficult to finance, it has a limited market, this boat probably runs the owner $10-15K annually to store, insure and maintain even if not in use so it is in his or her interest to sell quickly. I would consider this when calculating my offer.

Finally, I would thoroughly inspect the boat myself if at all possible prior to making the offer, not a survey but enough to get a sense of what the boat needs, in terms of deck condition, tank condition, thru-hull condition and communicate that your offer is in consideration of the boat's condition as is and that you are not planning to bicker over typical issues after the survey. I believe this clearly communicates that you are a realistic owner who knows that an older boat comes with maintenance and repair requirements, and you know you're not buying a perfect boat. I believe this matters.

 

[Skymichelle]

If the boat is listed for "market value" which I take as what similar sells for then why does it make sense to offer less because parts are $$$. I mean the other boats have the same issue, but if you take 15-20% off all of them then they were not priced at "market value" to begin with.

I guess market value to me is what a buyer is willing to pay and seller is willing to accept.

Reality, all boats have expense parts that will need replacing.
Offer what you are willing to pay and have 50% of that ready to spend in the first 3 years to make it yours after fixing things

Ideally the boat's marketed price should take into account the desirability of all major components already, so a smart owner and/or broker should have factored this into the asking price already. Ultimately you need to be comfortable spending what the boat is worth to you, this is more important than the market.

It sounds like you have already researched the availability and options for attaining the "consumable" parts for this power plant, the next step would be to inquiring about the specific age and condition of said components. Rather than only asking for the condition and hours of the engine, I would ask if they can provide a service history or breakdown of age of specific parts. For example, if the exhaust elbow requires custom fabrication to replace, find out if it has been replaced already, find out how frequently the coolant is replaced and what the operating temps are, see how well the owner knows about this powerplant.

Based on the engine, I'm assuming this boat is at least 30 years old and that significantly limits the buyer pool. Right, wrong or indifferent, Americans have a tendency to buy on credit and if a boat is difficult to finance, it has a limited market, this boat probably runs the owner $10-15K annually to store, insure and maintain even if not in use so it is in his or her interest to sell quickly. I would consider this when calculating my offer.

Finally, I would thoroughly inspect the boat myself if at all possible prior to making the offer, not a survey but enough to get a sense of what the boat needs, in terms of deck condition, tank condition, thru-hull condition and communicate that your offer is in consideration of the boat's condition as is and that you are not planning to bicker over typical issues after the survey. I believe this clearly communicates that you are a realistic owner who knows that an older boat comes with maintenance and repair requirements, and you know you're not buying a perfect boat. I believe this matters.

Thank you. That is indeed the next step.

 

[Shrew]

Typically the boats are priced based on the variables you're listing, such as engine age, condition or parts availability. Also, I've never heard of an issue getting Ford Lehman parts. Is parts availability a fact, or simply a suspicion??

 

[SteveK]

Risers and manifolds were a concern. Limited supply of after market production runs

 

[jleonard]

I vaguely recall reading several threads here that aftercoolers were an issue with the 225s. And that common practice is to remove them when bad to make them 180s
Anyone else remember?

 

[SteveK]

I vaguely recall reading several threads here that aftercoolers were an issue with the 225s. And that common practice is to remove them when bad to make them 180s
Anyone else remember?

I recall similar but also the turbo charger is removed as well derating the motor to the previous standard engine without turbo.

 

[Cape Henlopen]

Make the offer. If it's rejected and re-offered at same you will know.

I am pretty familiar with those engines, the magic number is 1800, If boat woat cruise at desired speed at those rpm’s, hard pass. Good luck

 

[Comodave]

I vaguely recall reading several threads here that aftercoolers were an issue with the 225s. And that common practice is to remove them when bad to make them 180s
Anyone else remember?

Yes, but you don’t actually remove them, just bypass them. It is very easy to do, just run a hose from the water input to the aftercooler and take it to the output side. The housing stays in place. And it does become a 180hp. No injection adjustments or anything. According to Brian at American Diesel the aftercoolers are no longer available. I didn’t ask him if he was referring to the housing or the core.

 

[Bill Wells]

Go examine the boat yourself and make sure it is what you want and then make an offer subject to a sea trial and out of the water survey (including motors). Generally, if you offer within 20 percent of the asking price, the owner will counter back, it is rare that a person would list a boat for sale and not be willing to negotiate. Specify in the offer that the owner will pay for major repairs needed per the survey. Submit a refundable deposit to the broker with your offer. The broker does the negotiating for you, handles the escrow funds, and helps with financing if you need it. Read the book Dead Reckoning by Caitlin Rother about a case where people were selling their boats without a broker.... My own boat is almost 90 years old, (built in 1937) the current motors were installed in 1960. I have never had a problem getting parts. I replaced my iron fuel tanks with custom aluminum CG approved tanks that i had custom built about 20 years ago. I had one new intake / exhaust manifold built. Most other motor parts are available online from various dealers. I am retired now but I had 20 years experience as a successful yacht / ship broker.

 

[more]

Hi,
I'm looking at a $70k boat that i feel is appropriated listed by market value. I know up front that the SP275s

Thanks Y'all!

sp 275 super year 1982 to 1991± very rare except in USA boat boat valid 70k. boat must be pristine. not 1 small 1mm dot imperfection flor,hull like condition prepare for boat show,with new watermaker,new lithium battery ,new chain,electronic and scc. somebody up say make offer 25% off .but on other side life is short 70k evry day valid less. also how old you are,health. ecc do you have slip for boat. if you born before 1960 have 1 million on account,stock retired plan run tomorrow and pay 80k

if you born after 1990 and have 1 million on stock have annually dividend 50k buy,if you don't have don't buy

 

[Cartouche]

If the boat is listed for "market value" which I take as what similar sells for then why does it make sense to offer less because parts are $$$. I mean the other boats have the same issue, but if you take 15-20% off all of them then they were not priced at "market value" to begin with.

I guess market value to me is what a buyer is willing to pay and seller is willing to accept.

Reality, all boats have expense parts that will need replacing.
Offer what you are willing to pay and have 50% of that ready to spend in the first 3 years to make it yours after fixing things.

Second that, if its worth 80k to you that's what its worth. there are always aftermarket parts, if you are talking about specific body parts, that is the same with all boats that are not made today. engine and maintenance parts are all universal. windshields have to be fabricated.

 

[Bacchus]

Do you in fact know what other comparable actually sold for or are you comparing ask $ vs sold $?

If it's really sold I agree w others that questioned further discounting.
If ask $ it's is reasonable to conclude there was likely some negotiating and a 10% discount might be a reasonable estimate?

 

[Mako]

Yes, but you don’t actually remove them, just bypass them. It is very easy to do, just run a hose from the water input to the aftercooler and take it to the output side. The housing stays in place. And it does become a 180hp. No injection adjustments or anything.

Wouldn’t you want to simply pull out the cooler and reduce back pressure?