Lofrans Kobra 1000W windlass motor gave up the ghost

[HeadedToTexas]

Or is heading that way. It's a circa 2007 unit and not in the best shape, though it's been in fresh water for the last several years. Last year it stopped lowering and would only raise. The control solenoids both click and it runs off the house bank, so voltage should not be an issue as it's fine everywhere I measure it. The ground and one of the positive terminal posts rotate without tightening. The Imtra guy says that likely means the soldered connections inside the case are broken and not making contact. That fits.

Would you guys recommend trying to have the motor rebuilt, or just buy a new one?

 

[BruceK]

How was it performing during the remaining retrieve function? If the motor is still performing well it could be control functions that need work, not motor. Maybe remove and send it to a Lofrans repair agent, I expect after inspection they`ll soon tell you if it needs a new one.

 

[Comodave]

Clicking doesn’t mean that it is actually supplying power. I had that happen with a solenoid on our anchor windlass.

 

[Iggy]

As Dave pointed out, the relay could be the problem. Are you getting voltage to it? I would change the lugs too. A bad connection is not going to help.

 

[Comodave]

If you do have to do new connections I like to use some copper conductive paste on high amperage connections.

 

[Iggy]

What about Dielectric Grease. Conductive grease makes me apprehensive to use it. If the motor case is grounded, it could short out.

​

 

[Nick F]

From your observations it sounds almost certain that the problem is inside the motor.

No matter what else you do, the whole winch should be re-bedded so that water no longer dribbles down the motor.

Remove the motor from the winch (easy to do) and take it to an old-fashioned starter repair shop. We still have a good one in Vancouver, thankfully. The shop will either fix it or you have to buy new.

Good luck!

 

[Comodave]

What about Dielectric Grease. Conductive grease makes me apprehensive to use it. If the motor case is grounded, it could short out.

​

The conductive paste goes on the bare wire end before you put it inside the connector and then crimp it. Then I put adhesive lined shrink tube over the end of the connector to seal out moisture. No way for the conductive paste to get out of the connection.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Remove the motor from the winch (easy to do) and take it to an old-fashioned starter repair shop.

I finally got some real voltage data and it was exactly what I expected. 13.0 VDC between the ground pole and the positive pole when the respective solenoid was energized by the windlass switch. The motor did not run in either direction despite the good voltage. Not surprising given that the rotating contact posts include the ground post. Imtra says that those posts have soldered electrical connections inside the motor case that are certainly broken if the post rotates. That clearly explains the problem in my mind.

Where to go from there is also clear, though far from easy to do. I removed the two cap nuts on the top of the windlass assembly that secure motor in place and it did not budge. I grabbed the motor from below and tried to jiggle it free. It did not budge. Hitting it with a mallet seems wrong. Removing the 4 bolts mounting the windlass to the deck doesn't seem much easier, but I can get far better leverage on it from up top than I can from the anchor locker.

Nick, when you say removing the motor from the winch is easy to do, can you describe how you did it? Was your motor new or had it corroded in place for 17 years? I would love to know the trick!

 

[Nick F]

Hi there - my winch was old, but it is the horizontal type with a cover over the motor and the motor/winch housing connection was clean. I just undid the bolts on the motor flange and slid the motor off.

Also, I had the winch in my my workshop. Best to try to remove the winch from the boat first. May have to wiggle a paint scraper between winch and deck to cut the bedding compound.

I would try tapping the end of the motor (with a piece of wood between hammer and motor casing).

Good luck!

 

[C lectric]

Dielectric grease is NOT a conductive paste or grease. It IS NON CONDUCTIVE which is exactly why it is recommended so often to smear, not gobs, on an electrical connection. I have posted one link but there are lots of others.

Look up Dielectric greases.

Difference Between Dielectric Grease and Silicone Grease

Grease is a thick and oily substance usually used as a lubricant. As a true sample of grease, it must contain either oil and/or other lubricants usually mixed using a thickener, usually a soap so

www.differencebetween.net

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Being the vertical type, I’m guessing the recess on the underside of the windlass assembly where the motor mounts is lined with sealant essentially forming a permanent bond between the two components. Hoping the boat yard guys know tricks of the trade to get the two apart.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

This has been going on a long time and I (finally) have an update. The motor never did come out of the housing and Imtra agreed that it's likely a goner. I bought a new Kobra 1000 directly from Imtra and they took back the new motor I bought last year. Kudos to their Customer service; it has been a great experience with Imtra.

For better or worse, I had already incurred some expense with my boat yard and elected to let them finish the job. Turns out the new Kobra 1000 included not only the windlass, but also the foot switches and solenoid. All three components are now installed and will be commissioned as soon as my batteries are reconnected at launch later this month.

My question is now what do to about the installation. From above it looks fine. The new windlass fit in the old holes as did the foot switches. From below however, it is clear that the foam core deck was compressed from the beginning as the mounting bolts were tightened. Apparently the mounting was good enough to deliver 17 years of service. I suspect the right answer is to make an epoxy coated marine plywood backing plate and remount the windlass with longer bolts. Is that the right read?

 

[luna]

If the exterior foredeck surface is basically flat, then looking at your overhead picture it appears to me that the 2 round foot switches are in a deck that is thicker than the deck where the windlass is mounted.
This may mean that the area where the windlass is mounted does not have any core in it. Let's hope that is the case as then, your life gets easier.

If there is no core, I would from 3/8" thick aluminum plate cut out a shape as large as practical (20" x 20"?) to fit up under the windlass and bed it in place using polyester resin or whatever hard bedding compound you like. A good fitting here is the key so it will take some time.

When you install all of the components that penetrate the deck you need to do everything possible to ensure that they are rigidly mounted and sealed. Use gaskets (easy to cut your own) not goop.

If done correctly your new motor will never look like your old motor.

 

[Comodave]

I don’t really like plywood as a backing plate. It can rot. I prefer either aluminum or G10 finerglass. I have used both.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I believe the thickness of the deck is uniform, but there is a wide ridge molded into the deck along the midline and that is where the windlass penetrates into the anchor locker.

I have a good G10 supplier nearby in Dayton and will use that when the time comes. Thanks, guys.

 

[Comodave]

When I put a backing plate on I use thickened epoxy and butter the plate up so that there aren’t any cavities between the plate and the bottom of the deck. That way when you tighten up the bolts the pressure is distributed evenly across the backing plate.