LFP UL Battery Certifications

[tpbrady]

I have been modeling an LFP upgrade all winter and getting ready to make a final decision. I know the pieces I want to use but am still hung up on the battery manufacturer. The only manufacturers that claim UL certification (1642 or 1973) I have found are LiTime, Epoch, SOK, Battleborn, and ExpertPower. I have seen others that mention UL certification, but no mention of what certification. Are there any others I should consider?

Tom

 

[Frosty]

Not saying you should consider them (or not), but at least last time I checked Lithionics had UL certification on their batteries. I think they were bought out by Winnebago; not sure what effect that might have had.

(I didn't end up going with Lithionics, so that info is just left over from my research phase.)

 

[Don L]

I think it better to ask any manufacturer you are considering the question instead of counting on a small forum to know the answer. (would you really believe a forum answer????)

 

[Frosty]

I think it better to ask any manufacturer you are considering the question instead of counting on a small forum to know the answer. (would you really believe a forum answer????)

I can see value in what the OP is asking though. I mean, it's a way to find out which manufacturers one would then contact (or look for documentation on their website). Otherwise you could easily be missing an option by just not knowing they exist.

Then of course, as you say, get actual documentation.

 

[twistedtree]

Here's what the current E-13 draft says. Note that some are cell standards, and some are full battery+BMS+other standards.

13.5.4 Batteries or cells shall meet the testing requirements of at least one of the following standards:


13.5.4.1 IEC 62133, Secondary cells and batteries containing alkaline or other non-acid electrolytes - Safety requirements for portable sealed secondary lithium cells, and for batteries made from them, for use in portable applications,


13.5.4.2 IEC 62619, Secondary cells and batteries containing alkaline or other non-acid electrolytes - Safety requirements for secondary lithium cells and batteries, for use in industrial applications,


13.5.4.3 IEC 62620, Secondary cells and batteries containing alkaline or other non-acid electrolytes - Secondary lithium cells and batteries for use in industrial applications,


13.5.4.4 SAE J2929, Safety Standard for Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Propulsion Battery Systems Utilizing Lithium based Rechargeable Cells,


13.5.4.5 UL 1642, Lithium Batteries,


13.5.4.6 UL 1973, Batteries for Use in Stationary and Motive Auxiliary Power Applications, or


13.5.4.7 UL 2054, Standard for Household and Commercial Batteries.

 

[SteveK]

My renogy 100Ah smart batteries claim to be UL1642(battery cell), UL1973, MSDS, UN38.3, FCC, CE, UKCA, PSE, and MIC certified. (means nothing to me)
Only the UL1642 & UL1973 relate to ABYC draft E13
I looked but could not get any of the IEC, the SAE #'s

Only have to meet one standard of E13, done.

 

[tiltrider1]

Eco-worthy are UL 1973 & UN 38.3 certified.

 

[twistedtree]

Beware of weasel-wording around standards compliance. Here's what Eco-worthy says:

The UL1973 and UL9540A certifications are being processed, expected to be obtained in March-April 2025

 

[Frosty]

Here's what the current E-13 draft says. Note that some are cell standards, and some are full battery+BMS+other standards.

Huh. It's interesting to me that then apparently a ~$100 LiTime battery would be standards-qualified, but my Victron batteries would not. How does that make sense?

I'm not saying that more expensive batteries are always better, or that you always get what you pay for; but that's surprising to me.

Also very depressing as I have two systems with Victron batteries (and all their associated control systems). Even if they were free, I'm not sure I would want to tear them out and replace them with something like LiTime. Or Battleborn (which I do have two of in a land vehicle, but which I dislike because you can't see inside to see what's going on).

Bah.

 

[SteveK]

@Frosty Does this apply?

• Victron Batteries and UL1642:
  Epoch Batteries, a manufacturer of Victron-compatible batteries, emphasizes the UL1642 certification as a key feature, highlighting its commitment to safety and quality.

 

[Frosty]

@Frosty Does this apply?

Sure looks like it does apply to Epoch batteries. Someone above also mentioned them. But despite their weird wording in the bold heading, they don't seem to be talking about Victron Batteries, but about their own Epoch branded batteries (with Victron-branded other components to make up the system).

Sadly, I went with a full Victron system, so I have Victron batteries. Sick about the fact that they will apparently be excluded from ABYC recommendations (and yet LiTime will be included....).

Not picking on LiTime, but just.... it seems weird that they would be considered fine but Victron batteries wouldn't be. I mean come on, with the Victrons there is a complete external BMS with full control of separate Load and Charge channels, pre-Alarm, etc. etc.. How is that not at least as good?

I've always loved ABYC and considered it a good "cookbook" guide to making sure my systems are at least as good as they recommend (or better). Not sure I feel that way now. Even worse, I just helped a friend install a full Victron system. Feel kinda sick about that.

What I found on Victron's site (went and looked as soon as I saw this thread) is this. Not UL tho. So I guess no go.

 

[twistedtree]

Huh. It's interesting to me that then apparently a ~$100 LiTime battery would be standards-qualified, but my Victron batteries would not. How does that make sense?

I'm not saying that more expensive batteries are always better, or that you always get what you pay for; but that's surprising to me.

Also very depressing as I have two systems with Victron batteries (and all their associated control systems). Even if they were free, I'm not sure I would want to tear them out and replace them with something like LiTime. Or Battleborn (which I do have two of in a land vehicle, but which I dislike because you can't see inside to see what's going on).

Bah.

I would check Victron for the ISO/IEC standards. Also, the major cell manufacturers are UL 1642, but it’s admittedly difficult to find sometimes. So I expect the Victron stuff complies one way or another, but that also don’t seem to care at all about ABYC.

 

[SteveK]

I think THIS link should say they are UL 1642

 

[SteveK]

Then THIS link shows all but two

 

[Frosty]

I would check Victron for the ISO/IEC standards.

Okay, will do. I was looking through their standards page for UL (or anything else), but maybe I missed that one.

So I expect the Victron stuff complies one way or another, but that also don’t seem to care at all about ABYC.

Can you write the second clause of this sentence in another way? I'm not clear on what it means.

Oh, maybe that "they" (Victron) don't care about ABYC? I wonder if the US boater market is enough to make them care. Maybe not since they probably have many other markets (and "vanlifers" who probably won't care).

Just seems ironic because I felt like I was installing a system that seemed better, if anything (or certainly not worse).

There is more to install, for sure (external BMS, external control wires to various load and charging sources). But I thought that was good -- or at least not less good.

One thing that I liked was that each battery had a relatively high allowed discharge amp amount. To me that indicated robust construction/BMS/etc.

 

[Frosty]

Okay, I went at looked at Victron's "Certificate" page again. Unfortunately I don't see a way to sort it via product type, but I manually looked through. The only certificates I see for the 12.8 Smart LFP batteries are these:
ECE R 10-6.
UN 38.3 Transportation Certificate

I posted a copy of the first one above; below is the second one.

These were found on this page:

Certificates - Victron Energy

Every Victron Energy product has a certificate that guarantees quality. Here you will find all certificates from, among other things, inverters, fuses & batteries.

www.victronenergy.com

The other irony is that one thing that attracted me to the Victron batteries was the extensive documentation provided by Victron. And the fact that all the parts and pieces would play well together. Seems like that would be something ABYC would like.

I'm sure I sound peeved here. But that's because I am! Thinking about potentially removing my entire system, buying new/different batteries and re-doing it is disheartening. Building a new battery box.... oh just everything. UGH. Thing too is that when I was helping my friend (very recently) do his whole system, one reason we went with the Victron batteries was that getting all the relevant specs from some of the other companies was like pulling teeth (or even unlike pulling teeth because we ultimately could not get them in many cases whereas you can actually pull teeth).

I guess this is good for anyone who was thinking about Victron batteries but hasn't bought them yet. I wonder how some of the big, marine-oriented dealers will handle this (PKYS, etc.). They sell a lot of Victron batteries.

Okay, going to go grumble to myself now.

 

[luna]

Authority listings seem to be battery size specific. Likely because the cells are sourced from different manufacturers and are for sure a different size.
Victrons 12.8/160 has no listings required by ABYC, while their 12.8/200 has 4.

Victron's Battery Manual (Stevek linked it above) on about page 36, should show the listings.

What model do you have?

 

[Frosty]

I wonder if that's because there was an older model of 160ah (back when they were like twice as large). I think there is also a current 160ah though, so not sure.

My bank has the 200ah's, as does my buddy's. Hence why I had downloaded the documents that pertain to those.

But wait.... so maybe I'm getting bummed out over nothing and they DO have what ABYC is requiring (see below, emboldening mine). I would be happy to be wrong!

Victrons 12.8/160 has no listings required by ABYC, while their 12.8/200 has 4.

 

[Frosty]

Okay, I just downloaded the most current manual for the LFP Smart 12.8 Victron batteries (I must say, I like that they update it frequently; my copy was from early 2024, and this newest one is from August 2024 - and it's four Revisions later already).

Interesting that this wasn't on their Certificates page; but is in the manual. Good tip, @luna Thanks!

Here is an excerpt. The red square is our particular batteries.

Would this satisfy the ABYC requirement? Or does the battery as a whole unit have to have a UL rating also? (But then the BMS is not even IN the battery; so maybe there is nothing else to "rate" in the battery but cells?)

(Obviously the installation is also very important, but here I think we are just talking about the batteries themselves.)

1) Excerpt
2) Entire manual (never mind, entire manual was too large - it's 45 pages long).

 

[Frosty]

PS: Here is an interesting note: I don't see this "Standards" section -- where I outlined the red square above -- in any of my older Victron Battery manuals (yes, I save them ). Not even in the one I had from January 2024 (Rev 15).

But it is in the newest one I just downloaded and excerpted above, which is Rev 19 from August 2024.

Guess I blinked and missed Revs 16, 17, and 18.

I also found this 2022 thread in the Victron Community forum FWIW (it's not conclusive though)

ABYC E-13 Compliance for Lithium Batteries - VictronEnergy

communityarchive.victronenergy.com

 

[luna]

According to what was written in Post #5, the Draft of E-13 requires the battery to hold only one of the many listings cited.
Your battery appears to hold 3 of these listings, not 4 as I stated before.

You should be golden unless things change.

 

[Frosty]

Well my mood is ameliorated. Thank you! If it weren't for your mentioning finding it in the battery manual, I might not have gotten onto the right track.

1) I was looking on the Certifications page at the Victron website (seems reasonable, but I didn't find the UL listing there).

2) It was not in the Battery Manual even as recently as January 2024. But is IS in the current one, from August 2024.

Thank you again!

I shall go try to shake off my dismay and previous grumpiness now

And on thread topic: I guess Victron Batteries could be considered as "contenders" now in the context of this thread, tho I'm sure many would prefer the self-contained style.

 

[luna]

Stevek was the first to point out the manual's contents, while I was busy having dinner. He needs some recognition as well.
It wasn't until after desert that I may have pointed you in the right direction.

Good luck with the batteries and hopefully LFP properly done is a non issue at time of survey/insurance renewal.

 

[twistedtree]

Okay, I just downloaded the most current manual for the LFP Smart 12.8 Victron batteries (I must say, I like that they update it frequently; my copy was from early 2024, and this newest one is from August 2024 - and it's four Revisions later already).

Interesting that this wasn't on their Certificates page; but is in the manual. Good tip, @luna Thanks!

Here is an excerpt. The red square is our particular batteries.

Would this satisfy the ABYC requirement? Or does the battery as a whole unit have to have a UL rating also? (But then the BMS is not even IN the battery; so maybe there is nothing else to "rate" in the battery but cells?)

(Obviously the installation is also very important, but here I think we are just talking about the batteries themselves.)

1) Excerpt
2) Entire manual (never mind, entire manual was too large - it's 45 pages long).

I think that shows they have one of the required cell certifications.

The Victron stuff is good. I just don't think they make much effort to show ABYC compliance

 

[Frosty]

Stevek was the first to point out the manual's contents, while I was busy having dinner. He needs some recognition as well.

@SteveK
I'm sorry but I missed that. I somehow mistakenly thought what you posted referred to Epoch batteries (tho they mentioned Victron components in a way that sounded batteryish). My bad: Thank you!

Ha ha, started out the day thinking all was fine. Then got in a funk not seeing any UL listing for my Victron Batteries. (Peevish posts ensued.) Now I feel better again. Mood whiplash! Sorry you all had to ride along (tho maybe if some here also have Victron batteries, it was useful?)

 

[SteveK]

No worries frosty. The E13 was written around Victron, only 2 of the list TT posted was not found attached to Victron (yet). UL 1642 may apply to all LFP sold in the US, but the rest of the list may not be most. When you thought Victron battery was not included, that got me going.
Now I have to wonder why the US ABYC cares what standards other countries have. Some are considered higher standards, so they meet UL 1642, why not make them pass the test, never mind whatthey rate in their own locale. Would it be too simple to say all you need is UL 1642 to be endorsed by ABYC. Maybe insurers would like that simpler descriptor.

 

[luna]

That didn't take long.
Now I'm confused again. Not all that hard to do!

The E13 was written around Victron,

How do you know that? Were you there when it was developed?
The text in the Victron Manual clearly indicates that both the 12.8 160 & 180 batteries hold none of the ABCY's new draft required listings. 25% of the models of batteries that Victron shows in their current Manual don't seem to make the grade of ABYC's draft E-13.

UL 1642 may apply to all LFP sold in the US, but the rest of the list may not be most.

The text in the Victron Manual also states that the only Victron Battery Model that has obtained a UL1642 listing is their 12.8/330. One Model in 8 cuts the mustard here. Is that the only Victron battery available for purchase in the US of A?

What happened to that twisted and tangled guy's proclamation that if you made only one of about 6 different listings, you met the draft version of ABYC's E-13?

"Written around" and "apply to all" both seem like a stretch to me.

 

[Frosty]

No worries frosty. The E13 was written around Victron,

That's completely confusing to me. Why would it be?

But if ABYC wanted to do that, then it seems they missed a golden opportunity: They could simply have stipulated that LFP batteries have an external BMS in order to meet the standard. That would have favored Victron and eliminated almost all the others in one fell swoop (since internal BMS batteries are very popular now).

But they didn't. Huh.

Now I have to wonder why the US ABYC cares what standards other countries have....

...Would it be too simple to say all you need is UL 1642 to be endorsed by ABYC. Maybe insurers would like that simpler descriptor.

I don't think ABYC "endorses" any brand of anything. Granted, I took the (basic) standards certification class like 15 years ago. Maybe you are more up to date.

From what I remember they create standards. Certain things meet the standards and others don't.

 

[SteveK]

Post #5 has 7 standards of E13 draft of which Victron lists 5 certifications that I found.
My Renogy LFP has 2 of the 7 certifications but has 9 certifications in total.

Victron is the most popular, now the Epoch leading the pack.
I do not have a problem with ABYC modeling E13 after the most popular brand.

ETA: This is my opinion

 

[Frosty]

Victron is the most popular, now the Epoch leading the pack.
I do not have a problem with ABYC modeling E13 after the most popular brand.

I would agree with you if we were talking about *components*. Meaning chargers, solar controllers, battery monitors, inverter/chargers, Cerbos, etc. Victron components seem extremely popular.

However I would be very surprised if Victron batteries themselves (the subject of this thread) are even close to the most popular. They tend to be a little more expensive, and the installation is more involved and "pickier" since you have to use an external BMS, and that BMS needs control wires running to all the things the BMS needs to control (charges, loads) (or to relays that will control those things). (Definitely more of a challenge to keep tidy looking.)

Think about LiTime, Epoch, Battleborn, Ecoworthy, SFK, SOK, etc. batteries. Easier, cheaper, cleaner install -- and I would guess more popular.

If you mean that ABYC is "molding" their standards to both Victron and Epoch batteries, that doesn't make sense to me as they are very different from each other in how they are built and implemented. (Plus, do ABYC do that?)

I'd say Epoch would be more similar to other the other internal BMS batteries I listed above. Or possibly to the Lithionics internal BMS battery since it also has external comms (their 320ah battery specifically). However that is a very expensive battery per ah (ha, makes the Victrons look cheap), so probably not nearly as popular as the others (except perhaps in factory built Winnebago RV's, since I believe they were acquired by Winnebago).