Laptop or NUC or ? recommendations

[Portage_Bay]

I strongly prefer PC based apps to MFDs or dedicated plotters. But the old workhorse Dell desktop the boat came with is aging and hasn't got much useful life left. It's time to make some changes. I'm looking for recommendations on the hardware. Both the computer and the display. I'm running Coastal Explorer and OpenCPN.

The Dell is connected to a good quality Dell monitor which I'll keep because it's big and bright. That combo is in the wheel house. I'll need a new PC or NUC or ? to run in the wheel house.

Then either a complete setup of PC and monitor for the flybridge, or a monitor connected to the wheel house PC. Prefer a complete setup for redundancy. Given the space available that is weather protected a NUC might be the answer there. But it will require a daylight viewable monitor.

 

[mbevins]

I went with a good NUC . Absolutely the way to go, totally solid state therefore indestructible. I run it off the 12vdc system.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I went with a good NUC . Absolutely the way to go, totally solid state therefore indestructible. I run it off the 12vdc system.

Thank you for the reply. I know nothing about NUCs, do you have a specific recommendation?

 

[tiltrider1]

I have been looking at this from the home desk top/travel prespective.

The easiest simplest for me is a SurfacePro. At home it can be docked to a regular keyboard and a 40” ultra wide monitor. While traveling it is self contained, light and is totally solid state. My wife has been doing this for 5 years now.

I have been looking into other option such as iPad Pro, Android tablet and even docking my phone.

Hardware wise I think the iPad is the most robust, followed by the Surface Pro. Android tablets cost 25% of Microsoft and Apple but there is a quality difference.

First I would have this conversation with Coastal Explorer. They would know which system is best supported by their software.

With the ability to dock these smaller devices you can do some really nice built in screens.

While my primary is still my Raymarine MFDs on my flybridge. I do run CE on the boat docked to an Ultrawide monitor downstairs. In my case I am using a laptop because it’s what I had.

 

[Portage_Bay]

tiltrider I like your approach. I do have two laptops and two Android devices. Makes planning while away from the boat or even when she's driving and I want to plan the next day's route easy.

I do have a Garmin plotter and will keep that because it is far more robust than any consumer device. The problem is that I just don't like using it. PC apps are so much easier. I've also got a Furuno NAVnet VX 2. It's primary function for me is radar. The plotter on those things is just to primitive.

 

[ranger58sb]

We're using a Dell Latitude laptop with 15" display for TimeZero. (TZ in turn could interface with our Furuno MFD and so forth, if I bothered with all that.) Replaced our previous 2009-ish (?) Dell Latitude with 15" display... which was still working OK, but TZ guys said it wouldn't run Navigator 5 when we wanted to update to that.

The new one is decent. I like that it's portable... so I can drag it around to wherever suits me at the time. Would like to plug in a separate monitor, but I don't really have a great pace to perch one.

-Chris

 

[Jklotz]

I bought an HP Envy x360 laptop with touch screen in anticipation of running Timezero. Turns out, between my Garmin chartplotters and my ipad running aqua maps, I feel like I've got everything I need. I do, however, really like the laptop. Great battery life, runs fast and has some slick features.

 

[GMS]

We are currently in the process of installing a MiniX Z-100 fanless mini-PC to run TimeZero on a couple 21" HD screens for primary navigation. Would have preferred 4K screens, which the PC will run, but haven't been able to find robust 4K screens yet...

MINIX Z100-0dB Intel N100 Fanless Mini PC

Whisper-quiet computing! Z100-0dB's fanless design with Intel N100 delivers silent performance. Includes 2.5GbE, WiFi 6 & Win11 Pro in compact form.

www.minix.com.hk

The mini PC seems more than powerful enough for TimeZero and runs 12V natively, which will be a big improvement over the mini-tower PC currently operating on the boat.

We also always run a redundant tablet based setup, which is currently a Samsung S9 (or S10) 14.6" android tablet running Navionics (Garmin Boating app). The Samsung tablet is big and very nicely built (similar in quality to an iPad or Surface (I have both of those too)).

For the flybridge we simply screen mirror, which we prefer because it makes switching between helms underway much easier (not trying to keep two separate instances running on two separate systems).

We typically just move the tablet between helms, as it is just on a RAM mount that is easy to disconnect and reconnect.

Screens are the following (or similar)...

1920*1080 Hd 21.5 Inch Widescreen Projected Touchscreen Monitor With Dc 12v - Buy Marine 21.5 Inch Ip65 Waterproof 10 Point Capacitive Touch Monitor With Dvi Hd,Metal Case Flat Screen 21.5 Inch Vesa Mounting Pcap Touch Lcd Monitor,Industrial Full Hd

1920*1080 Hd 21.5 Inch Widescreen Projected Touchscreen Monitor With Dc 12v - Buy Marine 21.5 Inch Ip65 Waterproof 10 Point Capacitive Touch Monitor With Dvi Hd,Metal Case Flat Screen 21.5 Inch Vesa Mounting Pcap Touch Lcd Monitor,Industrial Full Hd 21.5 Inch Usb Touchscreen Lcd Outdoor Monitor...

www.alibaba.com

(very good experience with this seller, BTW - it was a recommendation from a friend, former Selene owner).

 

[deputybubba]

I went with a good NUC . Absolutely the way to go, totally solid state therefore indestructible. I run it off the 12vdc system.

newbie here...
What is a NUC ?
Thanks

 

[KnotYet]

'Next Unit of Computing'

Next Unit of Computing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm considering going this route as some of my 'new' boat's electronics are 40 years old!
P.S, anyone want a Lewco 12V/40A battery destroyer, uh, I mean battery charger?

 

[heysteve]

I recently installed this NUC (here) along with a Beetronics 15" touchscreen display (here) to run CE and OC. I wanted it to be future proof, so this is a high-end NUC using the i7 processor. It prefers 19 volts and while it's supposed to be able to handle 12, I opted to install a small Victron converter (here) to supply 19 volts and provide some power conditioning. I use it with a Microsoft portable Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

I'm still contemplating what to do for the flybridge. As its not enclosed, my current thinking is a 9" version of the Beetronics mounted in an instrument pod and wired to the second NUC display interface. The Beetronics display is weatherproof but must be flush mounted for the IP66 rating.

An alternative is simply to use a Toughbook (or similar) and RDP into the helm NUC. To avoid display resizing issues, I'd need one with the same resolution (or greater) as the helm Beetronics (1920 x 1080). The advantage of this approach is all the planning could be done while lying on the couch!

 

[Portage_Bay]

I recently installed this NUC (here) along with a Beetronics 15" touchscreen display (here) to run CE and OC. I wanted it to be future proof, so this is a high-end NUC using the i7 processor. It prefers 19 volts and while it's supposed to be able to handle 12, I opted to install a small Victron converter (here) to supply 19 volts and provide some power conditioning. I use it with a Microsoft portable Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

I'm still contemplating what to do for the flybridge. As its not enclosed, my current thinking is a 9" version of the Beetronics mounted in an instrument pod and wired to the second NUC display interface. The Beetronics display is weatherproof but must be flush mounted for the IP66 rating.

An alternative is simply to use a Toughbook (or similar) and RDP into the helm NUC. To avoid display resizing issues, I'd need one with the same resolution (or greater) as the helm Beetronics (1920 x 1080). The advantage of this approach is all the planning could be done while lying on the couch!

Very helpful reply! Are the Beetronics displays sunlight viewable? As I work through my "I wants" one thing missing from both CE and OCN is a good sounder display. Not simply numbers indicating depth but a picture. That's how I find suitable anchoring ground in my very rocky and steep cruising grounds.

 

[heysteve]

Yes, it has 1000 nits brightness and a matte finish to reduce glare. They sell a lot of different types of monitors and not all claim to be sunlight readable. I think these displays are used in industrial settings or outside kiosks. It also is multi-touch capable but for all these features you definitely pay a higher price than a normal desktop monitor.

 

[mvweebles]

@heysteve - thanks for the links in your response.

@tiltrider1 - I too liked my SurfacePro. I got tired of replacing the PoS keyboard or I'd still have one.

All others: What the heck are you guys doing that you need that much display/compute power? I can understand a big monitor for radar.....but for nav? I went through a dedicated PC exercise 20-years ago and decided there simply is no good place to use an input-device/keyboard at the helm, even on large boats. So I use a standard laptop for route planning (Coastal Explorer); weather (Windy/PredictWind); and all standard PC/Windows apps. What's the appeal beyond nerd-chic?

Peter

 

[heysteve]

What the heck are you guys doing that you need that much display/compute power?

As an ex software developer, I don't deny a certain nerd factor... but I do actually use mine for radar. I got a great deal on a HALO 24 which works well with OpenCpn. The wide screen allows me to have half nav and half radar. In the future I'd like to have a camera or two in the engine room in a couple small windows.

One has to be up for integrating all this stuff as it's not without challenges. Initially I was having problems getting a heading with magnetic deviation despite having a Raymarine heading sensor. After much ado, I figured out the problem was my AIS device - which does not provide magnetic deviation - was taking priority over the Raymarine sensor because it had a lower NMEA2000 device number. To fix that I had to replace my Digital Yachts NMEA2000-USB device with the Actisense NGX device because it provides a way to change the numbers on devices... whew!

 

[O C Diver]

In 2022 I put a NUC on the boat for Coastal Explorer. The 24" HP display was around $200. The NUC was under $400. Used a wireless keyboard with mouse built in. It was great! If you zoom in, under the monitor is the NUC.

Size matters! 24" monitor on top; 15" Garmin MFD in the middle; 12" tablet on bottom.

Regarding laptop versus NUC and monitor, nobody ever said, "I wish my monitor was smaller".

Ted

 

[tpbrady]

One master caution I learned this summer is USB devices can interfere with GPS receivers that are within a couple of feet. Specifically, if a poorly shielded cable passes close to an MFD with an internal GPS, the GPS receiver may stop working. USB cables and devices can interfere with the GPS frequencies. This summer I switched from my Dell laptop to a Surface Pro because the laptop was having some problems with graphics. The USB ports on the Surface are on the right side about 8 inches from a Garmin 943xsv. When I looked at CE to see what position sensor it was using, the 943 showed no position. After some fumbling around I noticed it started working when the Surface Pro was off. A quick Google search produced an AI response that unshielded USB cables can interfere with GPS reception. I suggest 2 feet of separation. Keep this in mind when you are putting things together. I am going to a NUC next year to help avoid this problem.

Makes me wonder how GPS USB pucks work.

Tom

 

[Portage_Bay]

@heysteve - thanks for the links in your response.

@tiltrider1 - I too liked my SurfacePro. I got tired of replacing the PoS keyboard or I'd still have one.

All others: What the heck are you guys doing that you need that much display/compute power? I can understand a big monitor for radar.....but for nav? I went through a dedicated PC exercise 20-years ago and decided there simply is no good place to use an input-device/keyboard at the helm, even on large boats. So I use a standard laptop for route planning (Coastal Explorer); weather (Windy/PredictWind); and all standard PC/Windows apps. What's the appeal beyond nerd-chic?

Peter

The appeal for me is that I think PC based apps are superior in usability and function to MFDs and hardware plotters. I've got decades of experience using both and much prefer PC based apps. At one point I convinced myself that MFDs were the way to go. Ripped out the dash and the stand alone devices. Installed two MFDs for redundancy and before very long one MFD was used as radar, the other as sounder and I was back to CE on a laptop.

 

[tpbrady]

Portage,

That where I ended up when I first started using CE in 2005. The MFD was for radar, sonar and immediate backup for nav.

Tom

 

[The Brockerts]

Primary:
Simrad Go9, running C-MAPS, internal GPS, AIS Simrad NAIS-500, connection to NMEA2000, Depth Active Imaging 3-in-1 Transducer Port side

Secondary:
Simrad Go9, running Navionics Maps, internal GPS, AIS Simrad NAIS-500, connection to NMEA2000, Depth Active Imaging 3-in-1 Transducer Starboard side

Power Failure Primary:
IBM Thinkpad running on internal battery
17 inch touch screen, Windows 11, OpenCPN , GPS usb puck, AIS usb shipXplorer, Depth internal mounted transducer and gauge powered via LiFePO4 helm battery

Secondary Failure:
Raspi Model 5 8gb, NVMe SSD, 17 inch touch screen, Power LifePO4 seconday helm battery, OpenCPN, GPS usb puck, AIS, megwatt AIS HAT, Depth internal mounted transducer and gauge powered via LiFePO4 helm battery

4 Systems, 3 different set of maps, 4 GPS receivers, 3 AIS receivers, 3 depth finders

 

[stevemitchell]

I have used NUC's for a long time in customer installs as well as my own boats (Using an Intel NUC as a powerful boat server) but they have gotten more power hungry and less 12 volt friendly in the last few years.

The last 2 years or so customer installs have been 12 volt, fanless computers such as this Kingdel. They have an older chipset, but still run Windows 11, native 12 volts, SSD with plenty of space, no fans/noise, a lot of ports, and very reliable.

I've compared the power usage of i3/i5/i7 NUCs (and clones) to this unit, and it's a bit more efficient, but that all depends on your use.

Runs Coastal Explorer and TimeZero just fine, as well as Maretron N2Kview/N2KAnalyzer, Actisense tools, and many other things.

I've always been a fan (ha!) of fanless designs because of the maintenance benefits and lack of sound while I am at anchor. Looking at industrial or vehicle PCs will definitely provide some options, and many can handle wide voltage ranges, and have lots of options.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Thank you! Worth looking into.

I have used NUC's for a long time in customer installs as well as my own boats (Using an Intel NUC as a powerful boat server) but they have gotten more power hungry and less 12 volt friendly in the last few years.

The last 2 years or so customer installs have been 12 volt, fanless computers such as this Kingdel. They have an older chipset, but still run Windows 11, native 12 volts, SSD with plenty of space, no fans/noise, a lot of ports, and very reliable.

I've compared the power usage of i3/i5/i7 NUCs (and clones) to this unit, and it's a bit more efficient, but that all depends on your use.

Runs Coastal Explorer and TimeZero just fine, as well as Maretron N2Kview/N2KAnalyzer, Actisense tools, and many other things.

I've always been a fan (ha!) of fanless designs because of the maintenance benefits and lack of sound while I am at anchor. Looking at industrial or vehicle PCs will definitely provide some options, and many can handle wide voltage ranges, and have lots of options.

 

[Diep]

Com ports on that kingdel... I am assuming you could interface with 0183 devices directly?

 

[stevemitchell]

Com ports on that kingdel... I am assuming you could interface with 0183 devices directly?

Yup! I've done that in a couple of installs and eliminated the need for converters or other boxen. Works well!

 

[fractalphreak]

+1 on Nuc type computers that run on 12v natively. We also found a monitor that does and so did a spare router we had at the house. For the circuit for each of them, we got a 12v buck converter (transformer/regulator type device) that takes anything from 10 to 18 volts and converts it to straight 12v, to protect the devices. Super reliable, quiet, and power thrifty solution. It allows me to leave it on 24 hrs when anchored with an anchor alarm on. I agree they are getting more scarce as newer processors are coming with power supplies at 19v instead of 12v.

With ours, I really like the fact I could simply wire the 12v components into the boat house bank.

 

[stevemitchell]

I have been using Beetronic monitors for customer installs for the last 5 years and have been very happy with them. I have several on board my own boat as well. They operate from 9-32 volts, but similar to @fractalphreak deployment, I always use a DC-DC power supply to power the monitors, PCs, and NMEA 2000 bus so that they have consistent, reliable power no matter what else is happening with the battery bank.

 

[amapola]

We use an iPad 12 Pro

 

[mydacha]

In 2022 I put a NUC on the boat for Coastal Explorer. The 24" HP display was around $200. The NUC was under $400. Used a wireless keyboard with mouse built in. It was great! If you zoom in, under the monitor is the NUC.

View attachment 167951

Size matters! 24" monitor on top; 15" Garmin MFD in the middle; 12" tablet on bottom.
View attachment 167952

Regarding laptop versus NUC and monitor, nobody ever said, "I wish my monitor was smaller".

Ted

how you see anything at night?

 

[O C Diver]

how you see anything at night?

The picture shows the limitations of the camera. If you look carefully out the window it's not night yet, only cloudy at dusk. The chart plotter programs have different displays for night navigation plus adjustable illumination levels.

One of the features you get with Coastal Explorer is three different viewing displays. One for daytime, one for dusk and dawn, and one for nighttime.

The only display that wasn't adjustable for illumination was the 4 green vertical lights and illuminated numbers to the right of the helm. That's the bilge pump counter and alarm system. I would hang a hand towel over it at night. You could faintly see the lights through the towel to note if one changed from green to red (pump activation).

Ted

 

[Pocoron]

I have used NUC's for a long time in customer installs as well as my own boats (Using an Intel NUC as a powerful boat server) but they have gotten more power hungry and less 12 volt friendly in the last few years.

The last 2 years or so customer installs have been 12 volt, fanless computers such as this Kingdel. They have an older chipset, but still run Windows 11, native 12 volts, SSD with plenty of space, no fans/noise, a lot of ports, and very reliable.

I've compared the power usage of i3/i5/i7 NUCs (and clones) to this unit, and it's a bit more efficient, but that all depends on your use.

Runs Coastal Explorer and TimeZero just fine, as well as Maretron N2Kview/N2KAnalyzer, Actisense tools, and many other things.

I've always been a fan (ha!) of fanless designs because of the maintenance benefits and lack of sound while I am at anchor. Looking at industrial or vehicle PCs will definitely provide some options, and many can handle wide voltage ranges, and have lots of options.

Hi Steve,

What is your strategy for multiple monitors with the Kingdel computers? The unit appears to have only one HDMI output and one VGA output. I believe that VGA is limited to 1080p.