Interesting boat at good price, funky engines

[lwarden]

It was a beautiful day in San Diego today so I got my usual paddle board trip in. This boat is located just one marina down so I paddled over and took a look at it for fun.
My 2c:
It's a big boat, and it looks like a cross between an older Owens and Jefferies. Overall, from the outside, the hull and superstructure look pretty good. The hull is quite fair and appears from the outside to be well-made. Only in one area could I see that it didn't come from a mold, and that was on the port bow where I could see some witness evidence of stitching of the cold-molded strips under the glass. The strips looked to be quite wide, something like 6", at least in this area of the hull. The planking in this area, at least the outer skin is not at 45deg, it's more like 15-20deg.
Paint looked ok, and was well done originally, but it was obviously done quite a few years ago and I would think would be ready again in the next 5 years. I imagine that would be costly due to the size.
The windows, especially the lower sliding ones were kind of odd as they were sliders and I would expect water ingress could be an issue.
The boat has an open array radar on the pipe arch, I didn't see what brand. The top looked ok, but port side plastic is about done so that will need to be replaced (and it's big so $$$$$)
I think the boat would make a great liveaboard for the right person/family. If you wanted to keep it up and improve it, I think it could be a very expensive proposition.
As I said before, it's a lot of boat for the money and it appears the current owners have taken pretty good care of it. There is a lot to like about it.

 

[TBill36]

Re-engine cost is one thing, but you also need to consider down time. Raw water cooled unique engines would weigh considerably on my decision. Trying to find parts, even without a rebuild could put you down for months and then you are only good until the next one goes. It's hard enough with readily available parts.

 

[socalrider]

It is indeed a Ford New Holland 7.8l block. Looks like these came from the factory with 185-275hp and are generally considered reliable at those power levels. Transmissions are ZF 301's, 2.9 ratio. Suspect with a good survey they should last a really long time at 10kts. I think the only truly unique and tough to source bits would be the exhaust manifolds & intercooler, the oil & transmission heat exchangers are standard. I'd have one extra set from the spare engine.

Anyone recognize this alternator? Looks beefy but needs an external regulator. Possible? Couldn't find a data plate on it - might be on the bottom.

 

[Crux]

Possibly something from cnh, case/new holland. Much of their stuff is 'spark protected' for service on combines etc with dust explosion risk.
Call your local NH tractor parts dept and send a pic. They likely have access to Case parts also

 

[‘75 Tolly]

We had a single axle Ford dump truck with the 7.8l Ford/New Holland (210hp, turbo/intercooled) Commonly known in the construction world as a 7.8 ‘Brazilian’ We currently own a 5 ton flatdeck with the smaller displacement (same 4.4” bore as 7.8) 6.6l version (170hp, turboed/no intercooler).

It does seem like they are really pushing the hp in the marine version you are looking at….

These engines have an excellent reputation for longevity in construction applications. A high nickel block, Bosch P-style injection pump….

 

[socalrider]

We had a single axle Ford dump truck with the 7.8l Ford/New Holland (210hp, turbo/intercooled) Commonly known in the construction world as a 7.8 ‘Brazilian’ We currently own a 5 ton flatdeck with the smaller displacement (same 4.4” bore as 7.8) 6.6l version (170hp, turboed/no intercooler).

It does seem like they are really pushing the hp in the marine version you are looking at….

These engines have an excellent reputation for longevity in construction applications. A high nickel block, Bosch P-style injection pump….

Honestly 210hp or even 170hp per side would be plenty for us. I wonder if it'd be worth contemplating detuning it back to Ford factory specs by plundering parts, maybe eliminating the after-cooler... maybe also the underwater exhausts... I guess that'd open up a can of worms with prop pitch/transmission ratio & might not make much difference in reliability versus just backing off the go fast lever.

Boat is equipped with ZF Microcommander actuators, so adding lower engine controls is a piece of cake.

 

[Crux]

Compare the design specs of turbo'd vs natural aspiration for compression ratio differences.
With after cooler present its likely a design change with different pistons
If turbo is an add on, cyl pressure might be controlled with waste gate strategy
The way you dig in is impressive

 

[socalrider]

Compare the design specs of turbo'd vs natural aspiration for compression ratio differences.
With after cooler present its likely a design change with different pistons
If turbo is an add on, cyl pressure might be controlled with waste gate strategy
The way you dig in is impressive

Thanks! From a 400hp Merlin data sheet I found it looks like CR is the same as a stock 7.8 at 16.7:1. The Bosch 908 injection pump looks the same as well. It must mainly be a hotter turbo plus the added intercooler - New Holland used a Garett turbo where the Merlin uses a Holset unit with a "patented Merlin intercooler". Looks like most of the 7.8's were turboed but no mention of inter/after cooling so that's probably most of the insane HP gain.

Getting close to $h!t or get off the pot time...

 

[slowgoesit]

Other than being cold molded (a plus maybe) and Merlin engines, the listing is quite sparse of meaningful info. To the OP - are you happy with the instruments, paint quality, genset, heating and cooling systems etc?

I noticed listed fuel capacity is 700 gallons. If indeed it crossed oceans some fuel storage questions arise. Of course if a “certain” Captain were engaged ——?

Yeah, Wreck 'em R** don't need no extra fuel! Real men live on the ragged edge!

 

[rslifkin]

I wouldn't rush to ditch the aftercoolers even if you dial back the fuel/boost. The cooler intake air with the aftercoolers will give you more EGT margin at any power level (due to the cooler intake air), so as long as they're in good condition, they'll only help you in the engine longevity department. Aftercoolers being skipped historically on lower power engines is more about saving money and complexity than anything. In your case, they're already there, so...

 

[PNK]

I imagine in SoCal it is less of an issue, but the lack of an inside helm here in the northeast would be a deal breaker for me.
In terms of "comfort at the dock", another recent thread, she looks to be pretty high up that scale.
OTOH, I would love to know the story of their voyage from NZ to SD with only 700 gallons of fuel......

 

[Seabiscuit4]

It's my understanding that those engines are not made for running at high continuous power due to not having enough oil splashed behind the pistons. Effectively the pistons will melt through lack of oil lubrication and cooling doesn't mean it's a bad motor. if you run that thing slower they'll last many many years. as far as a glass of timber it can have a bad reputation because people didn't build them properly it looks like a boat you're going to keep and so don't be too concerned about resale just enjoy it. I own a 56 ft full timber boat and if I maintain it it will last a lot longer than me and the next guy.

 

[socalrider]

Thanks guys.

1. On the inside helm; it's not too big of a deal here in SoCal. Also with the electronic engine controls I could pretty easily add a pair of engine controllers for $1500 or so, along with an autopilot/jog wheel control down in the salon. Not as nice as a pilothouse, but 80% of the way there I think. I would rather have a pilothouse though.
2. My understanding is that the trip from NZ via HI was made with several (a dozen?) fuel barrels in the cockpit. Crazy - apparently they ghosted into Marina Del Rey on fumes.
3. The engines are what's giving us cold feet. It was repowered with the Merlins in the 90's. They replaced one of the Merlins since then, and have another one in storage (I think they bought a pair when the first one went). As discussed, the price is such that we'd probably be even if we had to repower, but I worry about losing a season if we have engine trouble, and taking on a massive project with all the stress and uncertainty that involves. It seems those Merlins could last a long time at low power but not sure how hard they've been run in the past.