Interesting boat at good price, funky engines

[socalrider]

I'm looking at this vessel as a potential upgrade to our venerable CHB 41. Went to see her this morning.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1979-custom-cockpit-motor-yacht-9608145/

Very interesting boat; built in New Zealand from Kauri felled by the builder himself, fully glassed. Sailed on her own bottom to SoCal via Hawaii.

Non-typical layout but suits our needs quite well. Initial inspection was quite favorable, seems very well maintained. Most mechanical work has been done by the original builder's son who is local and in touch with the current owner regularly.

Price is great.

but...

Boat was repowered in the 90's with 450hp Ford Merlin engines, which don't seem to have a good rep at all. One was replaced 8 years ago, and there's a second complete spare in a storage unit that would convey. Hours on the meter are just under 1000 for each, but not sure if that's reliable. They look quite clean. Raw water cooled with a freshwater flushing system. Owner says he never runs up on a plane, though in sea trial she hit 23kts at full 2800 RPM. Said in his research the engines don't last long at full power but do well at lower load.

I'm still tempted. I could run it as-is and re-power with another I-6 down the line if need be and probably not lose my shirt, as I suspect with Cummins she'd be priced about double. 6BT looks like it'd slot right in with relative ease (hah!), or something more powerful if I wanted to go fast.

What say the brain trust? Any thoughts on running those Merlins at 9-10kts for a few hundred hours per year? They did start right up cold. Full survey, etc. etc. Haven't been this tempted by a boat for a while.

 

[sean9c]

Not my taste but looks nice. You're going to get beat up for looking at a wood boat. Is there any support for those engines? Repower will be north of $100k of which you'll likely get nothing back when it comes time to sell. Same situation if it needs paint and about the same budget.
Lots of really nice wood boats out there, you just have to understand what you're getting into.

 

[socalrider]

Not my taste but looks nice. You're going to get beat up for looking at a wood boat. Is there any support for those engines? Repower will be north of $100k of which you'll likely get nothing back when it comes time to sell. Same situation if it needs paint and about the same budget.
Lots of really nice wood boats out there, you just have to understand what you're getting into.

Not much support out there aside from the builder's son, the spare engine & my reasonable mechanical aptitude.

It's not a wood boat in the conventional sense as it's fully glassed (cold molded). Assuming it was done right I don't think a cold molded boat is any riskier than a typical fiberglass hull. Less risky than balsa cored. I believe a lot of sport fishers are built in this manner.

 

[tiltrider1]

I don’t know how capable you are. I am very capable and I have never been able to make a repower pencil out, even with all my labor being free.

If the boat is one of a kind and only that boat fits your needs then you probably don’t care that a repower doesn’t pencil out. Otherwise, probably best to keep looking.

 

[tiltrider1]

That boat is almost priced with a repower in mind. I can certainly see why you
Are considering taking a chance. Think of it like you are paying $225,000 and getting the boat with brand new Cummins. If you are still interested with that concept then you have nothing to loose by taking a chance.

 

[socalrider]

That boat is almost priced with a repower in mind. I can certainly see why you
Are considering taking a chance. Think of it like you are paying $225,000 and getting the boat with brand new Cummins. If you are still interested with that concept then you have nothing to loose by taking a chance.

Yeah exactly my thought. And hell those Merlins might last a good while at 10kts, in which case I'd be ahead of the game.

I do think that boat's a bit of a hard sell due to the odd layout & custom build, so there's some risk there on resale but I could see us keeping this one for a long long time.

 

[Comodave]

It looks nice and has especially colorful heads. I would check with some insurance companies and ensure that you can insure it. Do they consider it a wood boat? Something to check before you sign.

 

[lwarden]

Cool boat, I've seen it around. It's a lot of boat for the money. It would be taking a risk for sure on the engines, but they look to be simple mechanical. There is a parts engine on ebay at the moment, probably a good thing to have since parts would be difficult/impossible to get. If the hull is in as good a condition as the pictures show it might be worth hunting for a used Cummins QSB 6.7 pair for a decent deal and do a swap. I don't think a 6BTA would be enough for that boat. Doubtful you would come out even but it would still be a nice boat in the end. Even though it's glassed over it's not a spring chicken, a full hull survey would be mandatory with extensive moisture readings.

 

[mvweebles]

It looks nice and has especially colorful heads. I would check with some insurance companies and ensure that you can insure it. Do they consider it a wood boat? Something to check before you sign.

I wondered the same - may want to ask a couple marinas how they consider cold molded. In my time in SoCal and Ensenada I came across a few old wood boats that had slapped a layer of fiberglass on the hull in an attempt to skirt marinas who don't allow wood boats (nearly all in SoCsl).

Good luck. Looks like a nice boat. I understand the appeal.

Peter

 

[Just working]

Modern boats that are often cold-molded include high-end custom-built yachts, particularly Carolina-style sportfishing boats, with notable builders like Lyman-Morse, Jarrett Bay, and Vicem Yachts utilizing this technique to create strong, lightweight hulls made with wood laminates, often incorporating epoxy for added durability; essentially combining traditional wood construction with modern technology.

 

[mvweebles]

Modern boats that are often cold-molded include high-end custom-built yachts, particularly Carolina-style sportfishing boats, with notable builders like Lyman-Morse, Jarrett Bay, and Vicem Yachts utilizing this technique to create strong, lightweight hulls made with wood laminates, often incorporating epoxy for added durability; essentially combining traditional wood construction with modern technology.

The issue is reality vs perception. What you cite is cold molded a durable building process that avoids many of the issues of traditional wood construction. But many marinas will not accept a wood boat and may not be open to the nuances of wood vs cold molded.

I don't know that for a fact but like @Comodave observed, might want to check it out before taking the plunge. Otherwise it looks like an interesting boat.

Peter

 

[sunchaser]

Cold molded shouldn’t be an issue but a good hull survey by the right surveyor would be required IMHO. I’d be worried about all that loose furniture in a seaway, maybe the vessel has been a dock queen for awhile. The engines, hard to tell but I’d ask Seaboard Marine out of Oxnard for a reputable opinion.

Personally I’d chase a 1990s well tended OA fifty something that already has serviceable engines, proven systems, a good layout and a following. Similarly a Tollycraft 48 with 6BTs might be of interest.

 

[ranger58sb]

Boat was repowered in the 90's with 450hp Ford Merlin engines, which don't seem to have a good rep at all. One was replaced 8 years ago, and there's a second complete spare in a storage unit that would convey. Hours on the meter are just under 1000 for each, but not sure if that's reliable. They look quite clean. Raw water cooled with a freshwater flushing system. Owner says he never runs up on a plane, though in sea trial she hit 23kts at full 2800 RPM. Said in his research the engines don't last long at full power but do well at lower load.

Many (most) recreational diesels wouldn't last long at full power, so I think the owner's statement isn't necessarily damning.

I wonder what the original pre-Merlin engines were...

I'd not heard of Ford Merlin before... apparently not to be confused with Rolls Royce Merlin aircraft engines... but some quick searching suggests the Fords are 7.8L in-line 6? And maybe the same as a New Holland 7.8L I6 turbo diesel? If so, could be boatloads of blocks out there...

Ford New Holland 6.6L, 7.8L Diesel Specs & History

Ford New Holland 6.6L and 7.8L diesel engine specs, history, and information. The 6.6L and 7.8L inline 6 cylinder Brazilian diesels were introduced in the mid-1980s in medium duty Ford truck and bus applications. Manufactured by Fords New Holland division, the turbodiesels were produced into the...

www.dieselhub.com

Specs on the latter say "sleeveless" -- so a rebuild in place might be out of the question. OTOH, if it's feasible to pull, rebuild, reinsert, they might last as long as you'd need. Or forever, whichever comes first.

If Jarrett Bay can build a cold-molded boat that can dock anywhere, I wouldn't think the subject would even come up at marinas. What's the hull? Fiberglass. Done.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

I'd not heard of Ford Merlin before... apparently not to be confused with Rolls Royce Merlin aircraft engines... but some quick searching suggests the Fords are 7.8L in-line 6? And maybe the same as a New Holland 7.8L I6 turbo diesel? If so, could be boatloads of blocks out there...

I wondered if they were the 7.8, but 450 hp would be an awful lot for that engine. In some quick searching around I found a reference to them possibly being a marinized Mack engine, and my search confirmed the poor reputation for longevity when run hard. It looks like there was a Merlin 350 and 400 based on the 7.8, but I haven't found a definite answer for the 450 yet.

If it turns out the 450 is actually the Ford 7.8 as well, they should be perfectly fine engines if run gently, they just were never up for the task of making 450hp.

 

[hollywood8118]

Having lived in NZ for a spell years ago the cold molded Kauri boats were very common. I wouldn't consider them a wood boat , more of a wood core boat.. same could be sort of said of Balsa cored boats. I must say she looks great and well maintained, looks like a decent price too. Those motors may go a long time if not ran at the pins, I would worry more about the peripherals bolted to the block and their availability. Interesting boat history in so much as it made it here on its own bottom, but those Kiwi's have big cajones and it doesn't surprise me a bit one of them would do something like that. I sort of tend to like one off
"unique" boats and this one is definitely than. If it was on the East coast I would buy it as a Loop/Bahamas boat without overthinking it.
Hollywood

 

[socalrider]

Thanks for the replies all - very helpful! I'll ask about insurance. The slip would convey - there are actually a couple of *actual* wood boats on the same dock. The coast guard certificate lists the hull material as "wood" but I imagine any survey would clarify that it's cold molded. Gonna have a good think on this one, wife seems to like it so that's probably more important than the engines...

 

[sunchaser]

Other than being cold molded (a plus maybe) and Merlin engines, the listing is quite sparse of meaningful info. To the OP - are you happy with the instruments, paint quality, genset, heating and cooling systems etc?

I noticed listed fuel capacity is 700 gallons. If indeed it crossed oceans some fuel storage questions arise. Of course if a “certain” Captain were engaged ——?

 

[ksanders]

It looks like a cool boat.

I would make sure that you can get insurance first. I do not know this for a fact, but it is my understanding that insurance is difficult for wooden boats. I know this one is cold molded but if the certificate of documentatiuon says it's wood, then that might make things problematic.

 

[READY]

Nice looking boat but one of a kind so might be very difficult to sell. But price is rock bottom if not a fixer. IF wood is dry now then unlikely any future issues if no new penetrations. I would just make sure to find out if there are any parts that are unobtainable. That would be a show stopper. Sure you could cannibalize the spare engine but that would be a one and done.

 

[Crux]

Thanks for the replies all - very helpful! I'll ask about insurance. The slip would convey - there are actually a couple of *actual* wood boats on the same dock. The coast guard certificate lists the hull material as "wood" but I imagine any survey would clarify that it's cold molded. Gonna have a good think on this one, wife seems to like it so that's probably more important than the engines...

Maybe at boat's price point, consider liability only, if not financed, and you could handle the hit of a total loss with zero salvage.

 

[Jeff F]

The issue is reality vs perception. What you cite is cold molded a durable building process that avoids many of the issues of traditional wood construction. But many marinas will not accept a wood boat and may not be open to the nuances of wood vs cold molded.

Right. And many buyers won't as well. That could explain the attractive price as much as the power choice.

 

[slowgoesit]

I wouldn't be worried about the cold molded hull. Two items that stand out, that would be deal breakers FOR US, are:

1) No lower helm station. I like the idea of a fly bridge for shallow water, anchoring, and really nice weather, but also would like to have a lower helm when traveling at night, in inclement weather, etc.

2) No stabilization at all. A deal breaker for me for anything other than casual coastal cruising.

The other items, such as the engines, I would be too worried about, especially with a rebuilt spare included, but I would slow down to 8-9 kts, if for no other reason than fuel economy, especially with only 700 gallons of fuel on board, which is pretty darn miserly for a 54' boat with twin 450 hp engines IMHO.

• As noted above, small fuel tankage
• smaller water tank.
• no mention of black tank size.
• It does not appear to have radar, although it's difficult to tell without a full side view.
• The aft cockpit is on the small side for a 54 footer. It DOES have the area directly fwd of the cockpit, which would make a nice sitting area, but no overhead cover there, until you go up to the fly bridge.
• Access to the fly bridge would be outside the boat, which would suck on a rainy/rough night.
• No hard tops to easily install solar panels if desired.

 

[sean9c]

Not much support out there aside from the builder's son, the spare engine & my reasonable mechanical aptitude.

It's not a wood boat in the conventional sense as it's fully glassed (cold molded). Assuming it was done right I don't think a cold molded boat is any riskier than a typical fiberglass hull. Less risky than balsa cored. I believe a lot of sport fishers are built in this manner.

I'm a fan of wood boats but it's good to understand that they require more maintenance.
The listing doesn't mention that it's cold molded and I'm guessing since it's hard chined that it's not. Cold molding usually refers to multiple layers thin strips of wood laminated together and is normally used when you are making curved shapes.My guess is that this boat is likely double or even triple diagonal planked. Thicker, wider planks set diagonally and it would have timber in the corners to connect the pieces. Still sort of cold molded but not.
A few years ago I was looking at a very cool Bill Garden boat called We'll Sea, it's in one of his books. It's similar construction, double diagonal, but about 10 years older. It was a full refit project. A got thinking about what glue they'd of used between the the planks, likely too old to have been epoxy, then I got thinking about what'd happen if that started failing. Convinced myself that it was a bad idea.

 

[Crux]

A few years ago I was looking at a very cool Bill Garden boat called We'll Sea, it's in one of his books. It's similar construction, double diagonal, but about 10 years older. It was a full refit project. A got thinking about what glue they'd of used between the the planks, likely too old to have been epoxy, then I got thinking about what'd happen if that started failing. Convinced myself that it was a bad idea.

Glue used was likely black polysulfide, also used in PT boats.
Today called a '5200 bottom', as perfected by Don Dannenburg

 

[Don L]

I'm looking at this vessel as a potential upgrade to our venerable CHB 41. Went to see her this morning.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1979-custom-cockpit-motor-yacht-9608145/

Very interesting boat; built in New Zealand from Kauri felled by the builder himself, fully glassed. Sailed on her own bottom to SoCal via Hawaii.

Non-typical layout but suits our needs quite well. Initial inspection was quite favorable, seems very well maintained. Most mechanical work has been done by the original builder's son who is local and in touch with the current owner regularly.

Price is great.

but...

Boat was repowered in the 90's with 450hp Ford Merlin engines, which don't seem to have a good rep at all. One was replaced 8 years ago, and there's a second complete spare in a storage unit that would convey. Hours on the meter are just under 1000 for each, but not sure if that's reliable. They look quite clean. Raw water cooled with a freshwater flushing system. Owner says he never runs up on a plane, though in sea trial she hit 23kts at full 2800 RPM. Said in his research the engines don't last long at full power but do well at lower load.

I'm still tempted. I could run it as-is and re-power with another I-6 down the line if need be and probably not lose my shirt, as I suspect with Cummins she'd be priced about double. 6BT looks like it'd slot right in with relative ease (hah!), or something more powerful if I wanted to go fast.

What say the brain trust? Any thoughts on running those Merlins at 9-10kts for a few hundred hours per year? They did start right up cold. Full survey, etc. etc. Haven't been this tempted by a boat for a while.

Man I think this is a great looking boat for the price. If everything works out you come out way ahead. If not you come out just like you would for a boat that maybe addresses the "issues". A lot depends on the owner and how they operate the boat I bet. It you are a slower cruiser type probably wrks out great. But if if you a push it go fast type maybe not so much.

I have a friend with a Nordhaven 57 and know what he has spend the last couple of years on his high enf boat! Nothing is free or given in the boating world.

this is from an ex sail boat cruiser so may be completely wrong. But I feel when looking at older boats what is most important is wha is the condition of the boat NOW.

 

[darkside]

My guess is that it's DD not molded as well.
Do they name the designer? It looks Lidgard to me.
Getting to Hawaii from NZ is some feat, especially with those large salon windows. An where do you put the extra diesel?
I like the two level cockpit, that's fairly common in these parts.

 

[socalrider]

There are allegedly pics of the construction process so I'll figure this out. I also think it's most likely double diagonal planked, which is essentially cold molded as I understand the term (not a shipwright!) Sent a list of questions back to the owner.

I don't mind the single helm for where we cruise; I may look into another set of engine controls for the salon, paired with a remote autopilot control, maybe one of those jog wheels. AP is an old Simrad/Robertson so not sure how challenging that would be. New AP isn't that much $$.

I'd also (obviously) prefer stabilization but fine for what we do now. Could be added if need be - lots of space in the engine room.

Owner says he's had no issue finding insurance. Easy to double check with my broker if we get down the road a bit.

Edit: I'd also vastly prefer a hardtop. There is an arch on the flybridge stern that supports radar, and could be used to support some solar as well with a bit of thought, or as the basis for a hardtop conversion down the line.

 

[ranger58sb]

Edit: I'd also vastly prefer a hardtop. There is an arch on the flybridge stern that supports radar, and could be used to support some solar as well with a bit of thought, or as the basis for a hardtop conversion down the line.

Lack of hardtop is what would put me off... since it doesn't have a lower helm. We've been content without lower helm, but partly because we have a hard top over the flying bridge with a fully enclosable helm... plus heat/AC. A whole 'nother living space...

Might not be too difficult to retrofit one to that boat, though...

-Chris

 

[sunchaser]

Think twice about a hard top. They are heavy and expensive. We had a Stamoid top with Lexan side glass. Walt Poulson, RIP, did the same on his 42 OA out of San Diego. He had no lower helm. For SoCal cruising Walt said it was ideal.

As far as adding stabilizers, new FB enclosure, new instruments etc, there are many already so equipped vessels out there for the discerning patient buyer. Plus a vessel with the right engines would be nice especially ones with a pedigree.

An honest spread sheet defining new upgrades, costs and schedule has hopefully been done, well before a purchase decision.

I do get the unique project boat idea for easing one’s boredom and establishing a challenge. Here’s a question, is this vessel ready right now to go to AK? Or is Catalina its ultimate cruising ground? Two very different upgrades, costs and risk scenarios present themselves, both perfectly acceptable.

 

[socalrider]

As far as adding stabilizers, new FB enclosure, new instruments etc, there are many already so equipped vessels out there for the discerning patient buyer. Plus a vessel with the right engines would be nice especially ones with a pedigree.

An honest spread sheet defining new upgrades, costs and schedule has hopefully been done, well before a purchase decision.

I do get the unique project boat idea for easing one’s boredom and establishing a challenge. Here’s a question, is this vessel ready right now to go to AK? Or is Catalina its ultimate cruising ground? Two very different upgrades, costs and risk scenarios present themselves, both perfectly acceptable.

All good points. I've been looking for quite a while & the number of reasonably priced boats out there with top tier engines and stabilizers and a hardtop on the West Coast is pretty small. And none of them have four staterooms which is a real positive for us, as is the cockpit.

As-is, this is a SoCal cruiser, Sta Barbara to Ensenada. Part of the discussion now is whether it's realistic to extend those cruising grounds and by when. Certainly if we were going up to the PNW or down Baja we'd want to be sure the engines were reliable (maybe repower), want more tankage, stabilizers, a hardtop and lower helm station, at which point buying a 3-4x more expensive boat already so equipped starts to make sense.