Insurance 40'-45' vessels ... experience < 30' only ?

[Capt Pappy]

good afternoon,

any measures we can take to assist with insurance for purchase of cruising vessel in two years or so?

long history of owning and insuring power boats since the 1980's but nothing over 30'

the wife and I plan to purchase a 40' to 45' trawler to live on and cruise the eastern seaboard, Bahamas, and possibly further

very likely a vessel from the 80's or 90's

perhaps take classes or obtain a captain / six pack license?

worried about obtaining coverage when this time comes.

any advice appreciated

 

[READY]

Might start by picking up the listing of a boat that is a close match to the one you are interested in. Then ask for an insurance quote. You might either by shocked or pleasantly surprised. Insurance seems to defy traditional logic (I pay about 2x more to insure my rugged and proven 1976 Hatteras 48LRC vs. what I pay for a 2011 Greenline 33 (valuation is significantly higher than the Hatt). Both are agreed value with similar limits/terms.

 

[bowball]

Start a dialog now with insurance companies now and find out their requirements based on your circumstances, and what size boat they would consider.

In my case I made a bigger jump to a larger vessel and they required 100 hours of training - not 100 engine hours but everything counted like studying navigation, etc. Importantly, they had to approve the training captain so review their qualifications who then became the person insured to operate the vessel, and when that captain signed off my competency, the insurance company authorized me to pilot the boat.

What I also found out is that they measure the risk of you by your credit rating actually as a good safety proxy.

 

[Comodave]

Call Peter Ricks. He is a member here and is an insurance broker. He is excellent. Get his advice as to what you will need. Since he is an expert in marine insurance so take his advice. He knows how to get you quality insurance that will actually pay if you have a loss.

206-350-5051

 

[Capt Pappy]

thank you very much for the advice

the captain training seems rather necessary since we never piloted a vessel this size and none with straight inboards -- only outboards or stern drives

but not surprised by the credit rating factor -- worked in the auto insurance industry for long time and found that many are surprised to learn your credit score just might of greater input than your driving record these days.

and that does seem unusual on the Greenline v. Hatteras premium. I've been learning and searching so many vessels over the last couple years (keeps me moving forward at this office), so slightly familiar with the Greenline vessels -- on video/internet that is -- really like them but I am afraid much more than we can spend, so likely looking along the lines of an older Albin / Hatteras or the like

 

[Capt Pappy]

Call Peter Ricks. He is a member here and is an insurance broker. He is excellent. Get his advice as to what you will need. Since he is an expert in marine insurance so take his advice. He knows how to get you quality insurance that will actually pay if you have a loss.

206-350-5051

thank you

 

[Jklotz]

We bought a 45' after having only owned a 32' in the past. They (Chubb) required a hurricane plan only, no capitan requirements, didn't even ask to see the survey. We did hire a training captain for a couple of days for my own comfort, but insurance had nothing to do with that.

 

[Capt Pappy]

We bought a 45' after having only owned a 32' in the past. They (Chubb) required a hurricane plan only, no capitan requirements, didn't even ask to see the survey. We did hire a training captain for a couple of days for my own comfort, but insurance had nothing to do with that.

Definitely liking the idea of a training capt. I can only imagine the momentum one must counter when docking a vessel of this size.

 

[Mako]

"the wife and I plan to purchase a 40' to 45' trawler to live on and cruise the eastern seaboard, Bahamas, and possibly further... very likely a vessel from the 80's or 90's"

Depending on your budget and risk tolerance, you may consider just obtaining liability/enviro cleanup insurance, then just self-insure the hull.

 

[bkcorwin]

Just one more vote for training captain for some period of time. It will likely be required for insurance. When we bought this boat (62' nordhavn) we upgraded from a 29' outboard fishing boat. Upon purchase we were able to get insurance for the boat being at the marina/brokers dock, but were unable to operate it. This allowed us to be insured while we effected repairs that were required by the insurance company. They looked at our survey and basically said "fix all the critical items".

That done and with an invoice documenting repairs, we we're able to get insurance for operation with a captain and required 80 hrs of training. Upon completing the 80 hours of training we were able to get insurance as individual operators.

B

 

[SteveK]

Put a 40-45 on your resume. Charter one with or without a Captain including training. It will solve your purchase desire and show insurance you can do it.

 

[socalrider]

We went from 22' to 40' (sail). Astonishingly no requirements from insurance. I also hired a captain to help with docking mainly (no thruster!) for an afternoon - very helpful.

 

[Jklotz]

BTW - Was speaking to a veteran rep of a well respected builder at Trawlerfest. His opinion was that, for the most part, approval and conditions of policies had more to do with what the insurance companies felt like writing that week than what was submitted for the policy. Just sayin'.

 

[Capt Pappy]

thank you for all the advice

appreciate all the friendly and knowledgeable captains on this board

 

[O C Diver]

I would seek out a training captain ideally attached to a charter rental company. Having some amount of training (with a certificate of formal training) and a few rentals should satisfy your insurance requirement and give you some experience with different boats. If you can charter a model you're considering buying, good for you, and shows experience with your proposed purchase to the insurance company.

Ted

 

[Comodave]

Definitely liking the idea of a training capt. I can only imagine the momentum one must counter when docking a vessel of this size.

Slow is pro. Just go only fast enough to maintain control. Check the wind direction and speed. Also the current. If possible head into the wind and current because you can use more power and not pick up speed but you will have more control. Have several people aboard and do a thorough briefing before you approach the dock. Have dock lines, boat hooks and fenders ready before you approach the dock.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Dont waste your time on a 6 pack if you dont intend to hire out. Ins co,'s never gave me any credit for a license . Get a captain & learn , pester the crap outta him, get your $ worth !

 

[Mako]

For a 40ft boat you're probably right @SIBERNUT but not if he decides to pursue a much larger vessel (say 50ft+).

For example, when I bought my 65 footer the insurer and lender both told me the reason they were willing to provide me their products was because I had a 100 ton license.

 

[BDofMSP]

I would seek out a training captain ideally attached to a charter rental company. Having some amount of training (with a certificate of formal training) and a few rentals should satisfy your insurance requirement and give you some experience with different boats. If you can charter a model you're considering buying, good for you, and shows experience with your proposed purchase to the insurance company.

Ted

I did exactly what you're asking - we moved from a 29' to a 42 (46' LOA). In between I chartered a 36 and then a 40 (which became unavailable and they subbed a 46), and before each I took a training certification course (single engine and then twin engine). This made the charter company comfortable, made ME comfortable, and when I made the purchase, made the insurance carrier comfortable. I would not have been prepared to make that jump without both of those courses.