Installing Marine Elegance on MS 390

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jbbmillar

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
62
Vessel Name
Mainia
Vessel Make
Mainship 390
We are going to install a Raritan Marine Elegance with the sea/fresh option to replace the OEM toilet on our 2002 Mainship 390. I’m usually really good at doing things a second time, and I haven’t replaced a boat toilet before.

I’d appreciate any lessons learned from anyone who’s installed an Elegance in a 390 head.
Did it fit cleanly on the step or was any kind of platform like a piece of starboard needed?
Where did you tap into the freshwater? Under the head sink?
Where did you locate the controls? The existing toilet’s push button’s location spot where seems too low.
I’m planning on mounting the seawater pump close to the thru hull next to the shower sump.

Thanks,
 
I can’t help with your specific boat but I will say that you have picked an excellent head and you will love it.
 
We are going to install a Raritan Marine Elegance with the sea/fresh option to replace the OEM toilet on our 2002 Mainship 390. I’m usually really good at doing things a second time, and I haven’t replaced a boat toilet before.

I’d appreciate any lessons learned from anyone who’s installed an Elegance in a 390 head.
Did it fit cleanly on the step or was any kind of platform like a piece of starboard needed? My install required a new floor to hide the cutout holes from the OEM hoe connections
Where did you tap into the freshwater? Under the head sink? Yes
Where did you locate the controls? Mine is just the push button and I mounted it where I wanted it to be The existing toilet’s push button’s location spot where seems too low.
I’m planning on mounting the seawater pump close to the thru hull next to the shower sump.

Thanks,
There are/were a regular and tall version of ME. Measure your OEM and compare the ME so you do not end up with too high or too low seat.
 
straight back or angled

Raritan also offers an angled back for a contoured fit, or straight back for more traditional installation as well as a Bluetooth wireless control panel, lots of choices. I also tapped into the freshwater supply under the sink and made a raised panel to mount the control panel for a neat installation. We purchased a extra solenoid (that's still in the box) and have enjoyed trouble free operation for 6 years!
 
It does draw a fairly large amount of current so make sure you run heavy enough wire to carry it without getting much voltage drop. I always use the 3% drop table and then go one size larger. One time upgrade in cost and then great voltage for life.
 
I learned from my toilet replacement (and all hoses) that having a heat gun was mandatory to get the hose to fit over the platic fittings. Also helps if you need to make a few tighter bends on a hose run. And use dish soap as a lubricant.
 
Recommend Raritan SaniFlex hose. Very flexible and doesn’t let smells out. Defender sells it by the foot. The ME head can use either 1” or 1.5” discharge hose. I like 1” since it takes less water to flush the poop all the way to the holding tank.
 
I have a 2001 390, the Marine Elegance would not fit in my boat. If you have an angle at the back of your head platform, the ME will likely not fit.

Grab the install manuals from their site and measure. I ended up getting another model and am happy with it.

I did the entire job and hose replacements myself. Learned a lot and I can tell you it was the most difficult job I’ve ever done on a boat. I can tell you where to cut and where to not cut! Haha.

I’ll look up what I purchased and reply later.
 
They make an angled back ME for that application.
 
The Marine Elegance won't fit. It will hang too far over the ledge where the head is installed. You'll need to go with the Sea Era (Standard Household size).

The Sea Era is the exact same head only in a smaller, more traditional form factor.
 
The "Installation, Operation and Maintenance Instructions" (aka Owners Manual) Raritan Marine Elegance Owners Manual should answer most of your questions...I suggest you familiarize yourself with it before beginning any work...possibly even before ordering the toilet to make sure you get the right version (tall, short, straight back, angled back) for your boat.

Wiring is critical--ALL electric toilets need to be on their own separate dedicated circuit with its own breaker, shared by nothing else, not even cabin lights. The correct wire size for distance (always measured round trip) from the power source to the toilet is also critical. If you're inexperienced in running new circuits, this is one part of the job worth paying a certified marine electrician to do.

Use Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose It's worth the price 'cuz it's not only proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant--even has 10 yr warranty against it--but is also so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking, which will make plumbing it much easier. Warming hoses--those you want to remove and the new hose--make it much easier to get them off and get them off fittings..be careful using a heat gun on new hose...I always used a blow dryer. Dishwashing liquid is ok to lubricate new hose...KY jelly, which is a water soluble surgical jelly-- is even better.

Raritan has outstanding tech support if you need help...800-352-5630.




Btw, Shrew...I question this: The Marine Elegance won't fit. It will hang too far over the ledge where the head is installed.

The bowl will overhang the ledge, but the pedestal base is only 12" front-back. Hard to believe the ledge isn't at least that deep.

--Peggie
 
Btw, Shrew...I question this: The Marine Elegance won't fit. It will hang too far over the ledge where the head is installed.

The bowl will overhang the ledge, but the pedestal base is only 12" front-back. Hard to believe the ledge isn't at least that deep.

--Peggie

It's a trapezoid shape and the base hangs a few inches over of the edge. Even the SeaEra installs right at the edge of the base.
 
Peggie (who is the best ever...Hi Peggie!) and Shew are correct, the ME will not fit.

In my 2001 390 I went with the Raritan Sea Era QC, it fits great and very happy with the install. My boat was converted to freshwater flush and I kept it that way even though I'm in Lake Superior. You can get the Sea Era QC in a bunch of configurations, there is even a model you can choose fresh or raw flush, but I was never able to find the correct part numbers to do that....and too complex and not needed. Here are some things I ran into with my install....I also did all the hoses. Unsure if you said you need to do that or not. I'll skip that until you confirm hoses are in scope:

- The discharge port on the new head will likely not match up. The stock head I took out had a slight up angle from the head discharge port to the discharge hose. The old head's fitting matched that angle, the new one did not. If I was NOT replacing hoses, this would have been an issue, as I could not figure out a way to enlarge the hole by drilling/cutting to make it bigger to allow the hose to flex to match the new head, because how do you enlarge the hole when you can't remove the hose to move it from damage? If you push it back into that hole, you will have a very hard time getting it out. I did not research if I could get a fitting to match the angle needed, I had ripped the old hose out and enlarged the hole and it all worked out. CAUTION! The hull is directly behind this area...careless drilling/cutting here may result in a hole in your hull. DANGER!

- The flush controls for the old head were very different than the Sea Era QC controls. I had to fabricate a panel to mount the new controls to, the old control hole was larger than the new one. Also, the Sea Era QC has a control box that is not small. I will move it under the sink this next season, my temporary install works but the control box is outside.

Very happy with the Sea Era QC, much quieter. I'll post some pics if I can find them.
 
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Pictures of the MS390 head area

Pictures!

The old head showing the small area to mount. 2001 Mainship 390. Where the measuring tape end is, the angle starts..not flat there. You can see it's about 7.5".
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The new Sea Era QC installed. Note the black control box to the left, I will be moving that under the sink this spring:
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ESSENTIAL REQUIRED EQUIPMENT for anything hose/head related!! Thank you Peggie for the suggestion!!! I did not listen the first time, and then drove 20 miles to get it. A must have! See how sweaty I am? I had just got my final hose connected!
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Happy to help more if you have additional questions.
 

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I like the caps for the bolts on the base. My SeaEra didn't came with those.
 
The flush panel appears to be at the right height to flush while sitting...why are you moving it?


--Peggie
 
The flush panel appears to be at the right height to flush while sitting...why are you moving it?


--Peggie



Not the flush panel, the control box. I have it mounted NOT under the sink where I want it. I’ll be moving the box (black box on the left) under the sink this spring
 
Toilet Installed and Works Great

I installed Raitan's Marine Elegance model 220HS012: 12v, smart toilet control, standard height, angled back. I’ll use it mostly with fresh water but the raw water option will get used when we are away for a week or more and fresh water gets precious.

Using a Dremel with a carbide grout I enlarged the opening for the existing waste hose to allow the sides and back the toilet to slide in. The hole ended up larger than in the picture I uploaded. The "step" under the toilet is very solid and didn't seem to need any added support. I located the forward edge of the toilet base flush with the edge of step, which leaves some space behind the toilet. That carbide grout bit really cuts fiberglass and stays sharp, maybe cuts a little too well: in addition to covering the open back of the toilet I’ll need to trim where I went a bit too wide.

I enlarged the Jabsco push button switch’s hole to accommodate the Touch Plate control. It’s not an ideal location, but as Peggy noted, it’s easy to see when seated.

There’s space between the outside and inside vanity walls, with some plywood in there. I cut an an opening inside the vanity wall to mount the sea/fresh switch where it easily accessible but is a little hidden. I fished a line to inside the vanity and pulled the toilet wires, as well as wires added for the pump and tank full sensor.

The existing waste hose runs from the tank, along the aft side of the compartment under the helm, then along the stb hull and through an opening under that head to under step the toilet sits on. I replaced it just a couple of few years ago so I left it for this toilet. Before removing the Jabsco I flushed diluted muriatic to clean the hose and old toilet. With the Jabsco out I could see the was just a little scale in the hose.

We used a fish tape to pull line next to the waste hose, and then pulled ¾” hose for the raw water, ½” hose for the fresh, and two wire pairs for the pump and the tank sensor. It wasn’t an easy pull, but we eventually got them through.

The freshwater supply hoses to the head's sink/shower run through the compartment under the helm next to the waste hose. In the under helm compartment connected the fresh water supply line, adding a tee, stem elbow, valve and stem to ½ barb.

The reused waste line is medium quality 1” that doesn’t like a short radius bend so an elbow was required. The elbow doesn’t seem to be a problem for the discharge pump. Rairitan and Shields sell premium waste hose that make a tighter radius more like a sweep than an elbow which I’ll use if/when I replace what’s there.

I mounted the Control Box and sea/fresh relay up high on the inside wall of the vanity, partially covering the large 3” opening that was there on the inside for the old push button.

The existing 25-amp main panel breaker feeds the toilet with 8awg wires; 6awg would be better, but I chose not to run new wire. I used the + and – studs in the control box to connect the wires for the relay and pump.

I haven’t installed the tank-full sensor, strainer or the raw water pump yet, and left old toilets raw water hose in place for now (in the pictures it looks like it runs to the Elegance, but it's not connected). The thru hull and seacock that supplies the toilet is a little too green for comfort. It’s connected with a bonding wire, but is the farthest metal from the transom zinc. We need bottom paint so I’ll replace it when we haul out before very long.

With hoses connected, wiring connections triple checked, I opened the fresh water valve, flipped on the breaker and cycled the toilet and it works perfectly. I tested the discharge with a couple cans of dog food (a trick airplane factory uses to test their toilet installs) and it cleared fine.

The install was a lot of work, and in the end it’s still just a toilet. But it’s a mighty fine and elegant toilet! It’s quieter and should smell a lot less, which will make the Admiral and our other guests happy.

The expense and hours of labor will fade into satisfaction over time.
 

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Raritan Marine Elegance

I had installed a Marine Elegance in a Catamarran 5-6 years ago and while a bear, best upgrade ever. So now have MS 390 with the electric toilet that doesn’t seal (waste drains and results in bad smell) and makes a huge noise when flushing, so thinking again Marine Elegance. If I were to keep existing discharge hose (that was worst part of previous install) and just use fresh water from under sink, assuming it physically fits, anything I should know? Going back to my previous install, once I had new discharge hose, was simple install to existing fresh water and of course doing electric stuff. Thoughts?
 
I would try to replace the hose if the existing is more than 5 or so years old if at all possible. Probably retains odors and no better time to do it then when you replace the toilet.
 
You’re right of course. Where is the holding tank, how do you get to it? And is the underneath of the toilet ledge accessible? How?
 
I am going to replace the Vacuflush head in our boat this coming winter with a Marine Elegance. I will also, try to replace all the discharge hose with SaniFlex hose. It is the best hose and most flexible hose out there. If you are replacing the head and not the hose, that is a mistake IMO. Mine will be a real bear to replace the hose but it should be done.
 
All of you who replied, thanks. After reading replies and discussing with you, yes, will definitely replace the hoses. Was looking for an easy fix but as with everything else, you get what you paid for and not replacing is a dumb move. Thanks for feedback
 
Defender has the best price on SaniFlex last time I checked and they sell it by the foot so you only need to buy as much as needed.
 
Thanks I will definitely check them out. Rough idea of how much I need?
 
No idea, you will just have to measure. Order some extra cause you don’t want it to be 2” short…
 
Question. As marine elegance can operate with standard 1-1/2" OR 1" hose and since most existing systems are 1-1/2" how is everyone adapting 1" to 1-1/2".

Me, I am unable to find a direct reduction hose fitting
 
You can use either size discharge hose. I prefer 1” since it takes less water to flush the poop all the way to the holding tank. But you can just use the existing 1.5”. But personally if I am going to change the head I do the discharge hose too because it is probably near end of life anyway. I usually use a 1” to 1.5” adapter to hook to a short section at the tank so I can use the existing hole in the tank.
 
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