Installation costs for a ZF Micro Commander System

[Acdfpic]

Greetings all,

I'm tired of spending 5 minutes every time I make a power change trying to get my engines, Yanmar 6LYPA 370 HP, synced up. Finally, it's time to move to electronic controls. I've looked at the various systems and the ZF system looks like it will work. I checked with one of our local yards, who are well known for their abilities and for the many installations they have done, on both private and commercial vessels.

I got the price for the parts, a little over $8000 for those who are wondering. It's the labor for the installation that has me scratching my head. $11, 752 fixed price! And then another line item for 15 days on the hard with haulage for another $1,481.

There is absolutely nothing special or anything requiring extra work that I can see. Easy wiring from the flybridge to the lower helm and from there to where the actuators would be. From all that I've read it's a two-to-three-day job. What am I missing? For those who have had this done, how much labor was it?

Thanks!

Chris
Albin 40 NSC
Destined Nomad

 

[Portage_Bay]

If engine sync is the main reason and you have cable controls look into Glendinning. I had one on the previous boat, flawless performance.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm tired of spending 5 minutes every time I make a power change trying to get my engines, Yanmar 6LYPA 370 HP, synced up.

How are you doing that? I don't remember having too many sync issue with manual controls...

-Chris

 

[Bmarler]

20k all in sounds a bit steep. It can be a bit of a chore getting everything installed depending on where the power comes from, and where the secondary power is. Routing and dressing the wiring, getting a good path for the cables, etc…a good tech can get it done in a week. Not sure why they want it hauled out though, it can surely be done in the water.
I would get another quote and see what it might be.

 

[sean9c]

I had a ZF control in the boat that I just sold. I had a problem with the control unit and looked for someone to check it out and possibly repair it. I think there are one possibly two authorized repair places in the country. Luckily for me one was a small city close to me, Sedro-Woolley, the OP is local he'll know where that is, post covid he is a one man independent shop. He explained to me that ZF moved everything out of the country, Italy I think, so other than him you have to ship your unit to Italy for repair. I'm guessing that there are non factory authorized people repairing ZF stuff but based on this alone I'd be very reluctant to buy ZF and would sure look hard at Glendenning.

 

[sean9c]

It's me again.
You didn't mention if your engine and gear have electronic controls of mechanical. If they're mechanical your $8k quote for parts sounds really cheap, like too cheap.
Also the installation when the engine and gear are electronic is way easier and cheaper than if your engine and gear have mechanical controls.
For install time, with mechanical engines and 2 control heads I'd guess about 25-30 hours. You'd save a day + if the engine/gear is electronic.

 

[Taras]

I've had too many failures with electronic controls. Give me cables or Hynautic anytime. Pretty scary when you're in a marina and your controls stop working, then you crash into another boat. I like simplicity. Just me.

 

[Acdfpic]

If engine sync is the main reason and you have cable controls look into Glendinning. I had one on the previous boat, flawless performance.

I seriously looked at Glendinning. It was a tough decision. The ZF won out because they are very popular in the Pacific Northwest with the commercial boats and lots of yards have the expertise. Another bonus is one of the better distributors and repair shops is only an hour and a ferry ride away.

 

[Acdfpic]

How are you doing that? I don't remember having too many sync issue with manual controls...

-Chris

There is just enough slop in the cables between the upper helm and lower helm that fine adjustments of the throttles are difficult. Getting them within 50 rpm, not a problem. Getting them within 10...not so easy.

 

[Acdfpic]

It's me again.
You didn't mention if your engine and gear have electronic controls of mechanical. If they're mechanical your $8k quote for parts sounds really cheap, like too cheap.
Also the installation when the engine and gear are electronic is way easier and cheaper than if your engine and gear have mechanical controls.
For install time, with mechanical engines and 2 control heads I'd guess about 25-30 hours. You'd save a day + if the engine/gear is electronic.

Thanks Sean. Mechanical engine and gearbox. I ended up going direct with the distributor and actually saved a little bit. The new quote is $8300 with me supplying the Automatic Power Selector and a couple of circuit breakers.

The distributor and repair company is in Coupeville. An easy drive away.

 

[Acdfpic]

It's me again.
You didn't mention if your engine and gear have electronic controls of mechanical. If they're mechanical your $8k quote for parts sounds really cheap, like too cheap.
Also the installation when the engine and gear are electronic is way easier and cheaper than if your engine and gear have mechanical controls.
For install time, with mechanical engines and 2 control heads I'd guess about 25-30 hours. You'd save a day + if the engine/gear is electronic.

 

[Portage_Bay]

The distributor and repair company is in Coupeville. An easy drive away.

Curious who that is? I live in Coupeville and am unaware of any marine service outfits.

 

[Acdfpic]

Curious who that is? I live in Coupeville and am unaware of any marine service outfits.

Sent you the info in an messge.

 

[NoRain]

Yeah, I know the guy, didn’t realize he was still operating. He really is a Mathers Whisperer.

 

[sean9c]

I used this guy, like I said he's factory authorized. The guy in Coupeville advertises on craigslist, when I mentioned him to the guy I used he made a bad noise.

ZF Mathers Repair Center | Pinnacle Marine

Ran into my brother today and I mentioned the cost of going to electronic controls, he said that when he had his GB 46 syncronizing engines was a nuisance. His answer was electronic tachs. It'd be a lot cheaper.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I used this guy, like I said he's factory authorized. The guy in Coupeville advertises on craigslist, when I mentioned him to the guy I used he made a bad noise.

ZF Mathers Repair Center | Pinnacle Marine

Ran into my brother today and I mentioned the cost of going to electronic controls, he said that when he had his GB 46 syncronizing engines was a nuisance. His answer was electronic tachs. It'd be a lot cheaper.

Electronic tachs give good data. They don't make up for slop in the cables which OP is dealing with. I've got good cables and electronic tachs. I still want sync to just work. I don't like making the choice between eyes on the tach to the exclusion of all else or listening to the annoying out of sync thrum every time I need to adjust speed.

 

[ranger58sb]

There is just enough slop in the cables between the upper helm and lower helm that fine adjustments of the throttles are difficult. Getting them within 50 rpm, not a problem. Getting them within 10...not so easy.

Well, maybe you already pulled the trigger on the expensive route, but if not...

New cables and/or adjustments could maybe reduce or even eliminate slop.

Decent digital tachs can give you a better view of sync RPMs.

Sync gauges exist, simple things that probably cost a dollar and a half.

And finally, I usually could do the last bit by ear.... even without a sync gauge and before we got digital tachs... confirmed with a glance at our wake (although the wake thing doesn't really show up at hull speed).

-Chris

 

[Acdfpic]

Electronic tachs give good data. They don't make up for slop in the cables which OP is dealing with. I've got good cables and electronic tachs. I still want sync to just work. I don't like making the choice between eyes on the tach to the exclusion of all else or listening to the annoying out of sync thrum every time I need to adjust speed.

Pretty much sums up my decision. I've got good digital gauges on the upper helm, and I have spent a good portion of my adult life syncing up airplane engines so my ear is pretty good. But taking your eyes off the water when trying to get that last few rpm's set, it's just not a good idea.
It looks like a good price for the components, I've got a technician that has done installations before and is limber enough for the engine compartment, and a distributor that will talk him through the final important set up. I think we are a go!

Thanks for all the comments and help. It's good to have this community as a sounding board.

 

[JP2]

Having owned both, I offer a strong second to voting for Glendinning. Bill Moll is the factory tech rep in the Bellevue, WA area and is excellent, responsive and he travels, (usually on the factory dime) 360-336-9698.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Having owned both, I offer a strong second to voting for Glendinning. Bill Moll is the factory tech rep in the Bellevue, WA area and is excellent, responsive and he travels, (usually on the factory dime) 360-336-9698.

I used a Bill Moll for service on early 80's Mathers pneumatic controls after Mathers shut their doors. I wonder if it's the same guy? Sure knew his stuff .

 

[ranger58sb]

Pretty much sums up my decision. I've got good digital gauges on the upper helm, and I have spent a good portion of my adult life syncing up airplane engines so my ear is pretty good. But taking your eyes off the water when trying to get that last few rpm's set, it's just not a good idea.

Our electronic engines include a sync function, and it's still not uncommon for them to be up to 10-ish RPM different at any given time. Can't hear it being off, though, in those instances...

Not sure what factors are involved with ours, but I think it might be a combination of RPM, load %, maybe fuel rate... maybe boost rate...

-Chris

 

[Raffy]

Hi I am the East Coast distributer for ZF Mathers and Glendinning Engine controls, and have been with Mathers for over 35 years. The only authorized ZF distributer I know of in your area is Pinnacle Marine and they would be the only one I would deal with in your area. The price you mentioned sounds like a fair price for the ZF system. Both the ZF and Glendinning are the two best electronic systems on the market and are proven on over 1/2 million boats worldwide. The ZF has an advantage as it is much easier to install and we provide free tech support for all of the product we sell. Just a note for everyone, hynautic controls are no longer being made or supported by the manufacture. If you need any further information my website is www.controlmastersinc.com

 

[Acdfpic]

Thanks. I went with Roberts Maritime Systems out of Coupeville Washington. Bill Roberts has been with Mathers, now ZF, for lots of years and has been great to work with and very helpful for questions.

I've removed all the throttle and gearbox cables, run 90% of the wires. I ran into a small hiccup with the desired mounting location, but it's just taken a little extra engineering to get the control boxes mounted. I have a technician lined up to make the final connections and Bill has offered to be on the phone with him and walk him through the set-up part. I'm hoping by the end of this next week, it will be working.