Inspecting/reviving 2-year dormant lehman 120 (locked up?)

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The most likely cause of water in that cylinder is backing up from the exhaust. Either a leaking mixer elbow or somehow backed up from further down the line.

Ken
 
So two possibilities. Some one cranked the engine for a long time with it not starting and filled the exhaust up with water. More likely the mixing elbow or exhaust riser has rotted through and water back drained into the first open exhaust valve.

I have seen both of these situations over the years.
 
With what history you have discovered, it’s now very clear that this boat was abused, then abandoned. The owners since the abandonment were flakes with dreams and no means to perform any boat maintenance. It will surprise me if the toilets work.
 
With what history you have discovered, it’s now very clear that this boat was abused, then abandoned. The owners since the abandonment were flakes with dreams and no means to perform any boat maintenance. It will surprise me if the toilets work.

That's a pretty brazen and judgmental statement just because somebody falls on hard times and loses their boat because they can't pay the slip fees doesn't mean that they abused their boat and abandoned it

As for the two owners that had it between. Just because somebody buys a cheap repo boat with the intent to live on the water never intending to drive the boat or do anything with it that we would consider boating doesn't make them flakes with dreams it's pretty sad that people are so judgmental these days
 
You can call it judgemental if you like. It’s possible this boat is an exception, I doubt it.

You some how feel that I have insulted you when all I have done is pointed out the most likely scenario experienced by this boat. Sorry you feel insulted.

50 years of being in the boating industry might have jaded me but I doubt if it made me wrong.
 
I'm not insulted I'm just saddened by the state of people these days the derogatory comments that you made about the previous owners of the boats has absolutely no bearing on moving forward and getting this boat back into great shape you know it's just a sad world we live in that people feel the need to be negative when there's no need to be why can't we just focus on figuring out how to get these engines running or figuring out that they're unsolvable so that I can go in the right direction and I can get the boat back to where I want it to be I prefer to live on a positive note rather than being negative all the time
 
Sunbow, water in #6 cylinder is documented as an overheated engine causing the head to crack or warp and coolant fills cylinder. Right now I am hoping that instead of salt water from exhaust.
I said earlier both seized suggests someone forgot to open the thru hulls and ignored the temp. Shut it down and rest is history.
 
Definitely not coolant I sampled the coolant and it is clearly green cloudy old not the greatest but it's definitely green cloudy coolant and the liquid in the cylinder is basically crystal clear and there's also liquid to within an eighth of an inch of the top in cylinder number 3

Unfortunately the borescope that I rented / borrowed is too big to comfortably fit through the injector bores it went through one and almost didn't get it out and it doesn't even want to go through the others that one bore I didn't see any obvious bad stuff but I'm not too impressed with the quality of the scope so that was a waste of time


I only have a little bit more time before I have to leave and I'll be gone for a couple of weeks so I'm spraying lubricant into all of the cylinders but my main goal is I've got to get the water out of these two cylinders that are wet and make sure that they don't just rust into a complete ball in the next two weeks while I'm gone anybody got any suggestions on how to get the water out without being able to turn the engine over
 
I only have a little bit more time before I have to leave and I'll be gone for a couple of weeks so I'm spraying lubricant into all of the cylinders but my main goal is I've got to get the water out of these two cylinders that are wet and make sure that they don't just rust into a complete ball in the next two weeks while I'm gone anybody got any suggestions on how to get the water out without being able to turn the engine over

Outboard motor fuel squeeze ball and reduce the hose size till vinyl tubing fits in the injector hole. Alternatively, the vinyl tubing and a plastic syringe.

Ted
 
oil dipstick pump.

But if not coolant then you may as well plan to pull the head. No water in oil pan is a puzzle after all this time. Rings may be rusted to sleeve.
 
Just because somebody buys a cheap repo boat with the intent to live on the water never intending to drive the boat or do anything with it that we would consider boating doesn't make them flakes with dreams

I'm on my second project boat. Both my current and former boat are presently attractive, reliable rides being actively used and enjoyed by their owners. They were both projects that ended well. But, buying them as project boats wasn't the fastest or least expensive way to that end.

Optimizing for time and money wasn't my goal in buying either of them. In each case, I wanted the project.

It probably isn't inaccurate to call me a "flake with dreams". The only thing I'd add is that I'm a flake who makes those dreams come to life.

Enjoy making your dreams come to life. Enjoy the adventure!
 
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Trying a picture again.

This should be the fluid from #6 on the left, then the fluid from #3 in the middle and on the right is coolant sample
 

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Mounting face of exhaust elbow
 

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Inside of exhaust manifold and mounting flange
 

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I was able to get most of the liquid out of the two flooded cylinders but there's still some residue in there obviously any recommendations on what I could put in there that would prevent it from going really bad in the next couple of weeks would you just fill the cylinder with WD-40 or like RV antifreeze to prevent corrosion or should I flood the cylinder with rubbing alcohol and try and get it to dry out I really don't want to come back in 2 weeks and find out that it's worse than the one I started
 
I would fill the jugs with alcohol either denatured or isopropyl and then suck it out with whatever you've been using. Do this a few times. The alcohol will take the water with it.

Then do the WD40 thing. At least it will stop the rust and may even free the pistons. Add some penetrating oil for good measure.

Good luck!
 
Have you tried to either bar them over or try the starter?
Without being “hydro locked “ they should move unless rusted solid.
Obviously you’ll have to remove the exhaust manifold and mill or grind the elbow surface. That’s an easy job. ( except the manifold is heavy) .
Good luck.
 
I was able to get most of the liquid out of the two flooded cylinders but there's still some residue in there obviously any recommendations on what I could put in there that would prevent it from going really bad in the next couple of weeks would you just fill the cylinder with WD-40 or like RV antifreeze to prevent corrosion or should I flood the cylinder with rubbing alcohol and try and get it to dry out I really don't want to come back in 2 weeks and find out that it's worse than the one I started
I can not imagine a couple of weeks would make a difference on an engine that has been wet for at least a couple of years. Sort of 'closing barn door after horse is gone.'

Any ideas on how both engines ingested water? Seems a remarkable coincidence.

Peter
 
I like the old 50/50 atf and acetone mix. Fill the cylinders with that. It’ll penetrate while you’re gone away.
 
I can not imagine a couple of weeks would make a difference on an engine that has been wet for at least a couple of years. Sort of 'closing barn door after horse is gone.'

Any ideas on how both engines ingested water? Seems a remarkable coincidence.

Peter

Only one engine appears to have ingested liquid water/hydro locked and only in two cylinders the number six and the number three holes. With the cylinders completely full of water that may have been the saving Grace the standard rule when you drop something in the ocean is to leave it there until you're ready to deal with it because once you pull it out that's when the really bad stuff starts to happen because the wet surfaces are also exposed to plenty of air so I'm hoping that's the case here that being full of water in an anaerobic environment not having enough oxygen to really do any sort of damage I might get lucky but i definitely need to get the moisture out because now that the injectors are out air is in there and the water is out they would definitely rust up very quickly.
 
I like the idea of the alcohol flush that's what I had decided I was going to do for the moisture I have a bunch of ATF so maybe I'll pick up some acetone and once I'm satisfied they're dry then I'll flood all the cylinders with the ATF and acetone and then see what happens the next time I get back


I'm moving forward on the premise that if I can get these turning over I may have a chance to resurrect them or at least disassemble them on board and do some level of redneck rebuild but if I can't get them freed up and at least turning over then they definitely have to completely come out they may just be mooring blocks or boat anchors if they're rested up so solid that I can't drive the Pistons out of the bores but we'll find out later.

The meeting surfaces on the exhaust elbow and the exhaust manifold sadly don't look as bad as I wish they would look I wanted to see it be horrible so that I could be confident that that's where the problem came from but it's really the only place I can see where water could have got in so resurfacing those will hopefully deal with that and resurfacing them is not a problem

I did try and turn over the engine that had been hydrolocked but it's still locked at least reasonably locked I only put about $100 ft 150 ft pounds of torque on it with a torque wrench and there was no perceptible motion but I'm not attempting to break them free right now I wanted to soak really good and then come at it when I get back I'll probably throw a couple of heaters in the engine room and warm the engines up imagine an extra 20 or 30 degrees of temperature in the engine room get the blocks up to those temperatures will help with penetrating fluids and anything else
 
Thank you everyone for the advice and thoughts and information I'll be headed out today and it's going to be a couple of weeks or more before I get back to this but I will definitely update when I know more

Thank you
 
If you post the type of boat, model year, etc, someone with experience with that boat's factory equipment may have more info on the exhaust, and how the water may have gotten into the engine. Best of luck with the project!
 
If you post the type of boat, model year, etc, someone with experience with that boat's factory equipment may have more info on the exhaust, and how the water may have gotten into the engine. Best of luck with the project!

It is a 39ft C&L Puget trawler from 1977
 
Once the engine fixes are in hand, the failure mode needs resolution. Most of the potential reasons for water ingestion have been raised on this thread but without definitive reasons a repeat is highly likely. If the water in the engines is salty you’re in a pickle.

Minimally the heads need to come off, each cylinder inspected, valves and springs matched and the head magnafluxed.

What are your plans for this vessel? Live aboard, short Columbia River cruises, stay tied to the dock. How does it get to a pump out station? The $$ to get it ready to go to AK are high, to stay at the dock they’re low - provided your marina is ok with an immovable vessel.
 
Here is a wishful thinking scenario.....


Engines are fine, but have been sitting for a very long time.


Technician is called in to get them running.


In the process of trying to get them started, tech over-cranks the engine, water backup through the exhaust, and hydrolocks. Tech gives up without explanation because he just made your engine problem worse, not better.


Tech repeats on the other engine, and does the same thing, but maybe not as bad.


The good news in this scenario is that


1) The problem isn't a fault in the engine, it was purely technician created.


2) If I understand the timeline, this wouldn't have happened very long ago, so the water hasn't been sitting in their rusting away for very long. This is consistent with the condition of the removed water.


You could confirm this by removing the drain plug in the muffler and seeing how much water comes out. I'm guessing they will be chock full.


Sounds like you have left the boat for a while, but I think the best thing would be to get the cylinders filled with solvent of some sort so they can soak, and so the residual water will float to the surface and hopefully stop doing damage.


Good luck with this project, and I look forward to following along when you return.
 
Too bad everyone is now a technician, even DIY, hard to separate out a real old school mechanic.

Lol...

Yup, now if I can find a bottle of this water that floats on top of oil, all will be good in the universe...
 
Sunbow, I would never be comfortable removing salt water from the bores of a
boat engine, spraying in something else and then running it with an expectation
that I had remedied anything.
That engine will never be trustworthy until it is correctly returned to its original
condition. The parts that have been in contact with salt water must be redone.
 
Sunbow, I would never be comfortable removing salt water from the bores of a
boat engine, spraying in something else and then running it with an expectation
that I had remedied anything.
That engine will never be trustworthy until it is correctly returned to its original
condition. The parts that have been in contact with salt water must be redone.


That is a very first world opinion and you're entitled to it. But if you had ever worked on an old school farm or lived in a third world country you might have a better understanding of how things could be. If you would like to purchase a couple of new engines and have them shipped to me I would be happy to live to your first world standards. But until the fairy godmother grants me those wishes I'm going to press on with the tools, resources and abilities I have
 
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