Inside Passage Insurance Coverage

[Budds Outlet]

I currently have insurance coverage for all of Puget Sounds and north as far as the north end of Vancouver Island.* When I re-boat and head north will*I have issues with insurance coverage further north?

 

[markpierce]

You would be better off asking your insurance agent/company directly.

 

[Budds Outlet]

markpierce wrote:
You would be better off asking your insurance agent/company directly.

*Good point.* However, I'm thinking that*he will only give me their position and not that of the rest of the boating insuance companies.* I'm thinking that folks on this board have dealt with this question before.

 

[ksanders]

If you travel out of the cruising area on your policy you have no coverage.

Some policies are modifiable and some are not.

If I want to make a one time trip out of my cruising area then I just contact my agent, who gets written approval from the actual insurance company underwriting department. I keep that written approval as proof of policy modification.

If I want to expand my cruising area permenantly then its also a e-mail to my agent who gets those changes in writing.

 

[Steppen]

If your current coverage is only good to the north end of Vancouver Island and off shore a certain distance than yes, you need coverage for the northen part of British Columbia and southeast Alaska.* Lots of places where things can go wrong up north.

We have had coverage from both BoatUS and Pemco for Puget Sound and lower BC over the last ten years and both companies have navigation area restrictions.* BoatUS gave us coverage from Puget Sound to the north end of Vancouver Island.* Pemco covers us for all of*the west coast of the US(except Alaska) and*all of British Columbia and out 75 miles off the coast. When planning on going north we simply contact our current carrier and ask them to extend our coverage to include Southeast Alaska including Glacier Bay, Skagway, Sitka and Juneau and not north of Skagway or west of Cape Cross.* You need to contact them a couple of months before departure to get written approval.

Pemco granted the extension without any additional cost in 2010.* BoatUS charged us something like $200 to extend the coverage for southeast Alaska.* That was in 2005 and again in 2007.* Extension period was around 60 days.

Coverage only needs to be*in effect for a specific time period.* Cost will depend upon your current coverage, age and specs of your boat, length of time up north and the specific geographic area you will be visiting.

I'm not sure it would be cost effective to get short term coverage for SE Alaska from a compay different than your current insurance company.* New insurance from a different company usually requires a new survey which just adds costs.


-- Edited by Steppen on Thursday 15th of March 2012 08:03:41 AM

 

[Larry H]

I have a policy from Allstate that includes BC and SE Alaska.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Our policy is underwritten by Beacon and includes wording that effectively limits us to coastal waters from Washington to Juneau.* Changing that would require a call to our broker.* I doubt there would be any premium change but with insurance companies you never know*- they tend to like to charge and avoid paying.

(edit) I guess I'm about to find out what it costs to make a change.* On closer reading I realized that the wording prevents us from getting to Seattle.* We are limited to no more than 1000 miles from Victoria which isn't a problem but concurrently we are limited to operations on the Washington coast north of 48 degrees latitude.* Since we are currently in Port Angeles planning to continue to Seattle that is a problem.* Its not likely to be a problem in the immediate future because it continues to piss rain here which is prolonging our haulout but perhaps sometime in the next month or so we will get a dry day.* Marin's logs and fog and foul bottoms notwithstanding, the real drawback to Pacific Northwet boating is RAIN, nonstop interminable bloody RAIN.

*


-- Edited by bobofthenorth on Thursday 15th of March 2012 10:25:05 AM

 

[Marin]

Budds Outlet wrote:
*When I re-boat and head north will*I have issues with insurance coverage further north?

*That will depend on your policy. We have a comprehesive yacht policy that we get through a marine insurance broker and there are restrictions on where we can go and when.* If we didn't want these restrictions we could get them removed but the cost of the policy would go up accordingly.* We can also get a waiver for a specific cruise if it falls outside the normal parameters of the policy.

Our current policy restricts us to a specific distance offshore from the Pacific coast, and the number of trips we can make outside our "home" cruising area is limited to I believe two per year.* Our home area is defined as Puget Sound north to the border and the waters in BC up to the north end of Vancouver Island.* So the limitation would apply to a run up the Inside Passage to SE Alaska, for example.

I believe--- but I'd have to check the policy to be sure it's in the current one--- that trips outside our home area are also limited to a certain portion of the year.* There has been a restriction in past policies we've had about going outside our area in the winter.

So in short, in our experience you get what you pay for, at least with a yacht policy.* If you want to keep the cost down you have to be willing to accept some restrictions on where or when you boat.* In our case these restrictions have not posed any limitation at all on the boating we have done thus far.* If you want totally unrestricted coverage for the entire west coast or the waters from Puget Sound up through SE Alaska or beyond, you will have to be willing to pay the higher cost.

Whether this applies to all types of boat insurance I don't know.* But it does to the type of policy we've had since acquiring the GB.

 

[Marin]

bobofthenorth wrote:Marin's logs and fog and foul bottoms notwithstanding, the real drawback to Pacific Northwet boating is RAIN, nonstop interminable bloody RAIN.
*

*Bob--- A wee bit off-topic, but I'm curious about your observations on something.* Since getting the GB we have used it year round.* In fact we tend to do more boating in the fall, winter, and spring than we do in summer because things are so much less crowded in the islands in the off-seasons.* We don't care about rain or snow or temperature.* But wind can make a cruise more of an endurance contest than a pleasure particularly when one's boating area includes Rosario Strait and the south end of the Strait of Georgia.

We've had the GB for over 13 years now and we've spent Thankgivings and Christmases on the boat out in the islands during many of those years.* But we'v'e noticed that the past three or even four winters, the percentage of windy days (by which I mean 20 knots or more) has been far greater than in the past years that we've had the boat.

In expressing this observation to other boaters we know in our area, they have said the same thing.* Some of them have had to cancel annual Christmas cruises they've been taking for years on account of the stronger and more frequent windy days.* I've even brought this up with a couple of my friends in Flight Test, and they've said the same thing regarding winter winds around here.

So I'm curious if you (or any of the other PNW boaters on this forum who boat year round) have observed the same thing?

 

[Conrad]

Marin wrote:bobofthenorth wrote:Marin's logs and fog and foul bottoms notwithstanding, the real drawback to Pacific Northwet boating is RAIN, nonstop interminable bloody RAIN.
*

*Bob--- A wee bit off-topic, but I'm curious about your observations on something.* Since getting the GB we have used it year round.* In fact we tend to do more boating in the fall, winter, and spring than we do in summer because things are so much less crowded in the islands in the off-seasons.* We don't care about rain or snow or temperature.* But wind can make a cruise more of an endurance contest than a pleasure particularly when one's boating area includes Rosario Strait and the south end of the Strait of Georgia.

We've had the GB for over 13 years now and we've spent Thankgivings and Christmases on the boat out in the islands during many of those years.* But we'v'e noticed that the past three or even four winters, the percentage of windy days (by which I mean 20 knots or more) has been far greater than in the past years that we've had the boat.

In expressing this observation to other boaters we know in our area, they have said the same thing.* Some of them have had to cancel annual Christmas cruises they've been taking for years on account of the stronger and more frequent windy days.* I've even brought this up with a couple of my friends in Flight Test, and they've said the same thing regarding winter winds around here.

So I'm curious if you (or any of the other PNW boaters on this forum who boat year round) have observed the same thing?

*That has been my observation as well, particularly going back to a vicious storm that hit the BC coast in December 2006. Since then it seems that every winter there is at least one major storm with a number of side events to make life interesting.

Just this last Monday there was a real whopper that hit the coast, especially Campbell River, where winds were recorded at 130 kilometres per hour. Everyone I talked to out there said it was the worst they had every experienced. And, it was the third major storm of the season, the other two hitting 100 - 110 kph.

 

[Marin]

What we get in the so-called northern waters (basically from Haro Strait east to Bellingham Bay and from Anacortes north to the border) are lines of fronts or storms that just keep marching through. So there will be several days of strong winds and rain/snow followed by a day or two of nice weather (with regards to the wind anyway) then another several days of winds and rain, and so on. This is the normal winter pattern around here--- probably one reason for the restrictions on our yacht policy--- but it seems that in the last few years this pattern continues for longer periods of time and with stronger average winds that what we remember in the late 90s and through the mid 2000s. For example I recall hearing on the news at the end of last year that in the period between Christmas and New Years six or seven storms marched through the area with their high winds. That's pretty much one per day. And since our boating tends to be restricted to two and three-day weekends outside of vacations given my work schedule, with fewer "nice" days, the chances of them coinciding with a weekend have been reduced considerably.

We still go up to the boat almost every weekend and stay on it so it's not like the boat isn't getting used and the systems (other than propulsion) operated. But it's been pretty frustrating the last few years not to be able to go out as often as we're used to.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 15th of March 2012 11:47:06 AM

 

[skipperdude]

Marin. It seems to extend up here in the Prince William Sound. Only it is not the occasional storm but steady as in weekly winds well over 30 mph sustained.

Gail force not at all uncommon and the snow. Let me tell you been here 32 years. snowiest winter I have ever seen.

SD

*

*

 

[bobofthenorth]

Marin wrote:
Bob--- A wee bit off-topic, but I'm curious about your observations on something.* Since getting the GB we have used it year round.* In fact we tend to do more boating in the fall, winter, and spring than we do in summer because things are so much less crowded in the islands in the off-seasons.* We don't care about rain or snow or temperature.* But wind can make a cruise more of an endurance contest than a pleasure particularly when one's boating area includes Rosario Strait and the south end of the Strait of Georgia.

We've had the GB for over 13 years now and we've spent Thankgivings and Christmases on the boat out in the islands during many of those years.* But we'v'e noticed that the past three or even four winters, the percentage of windy days (by which I mean 20 knots or more) has been far greater than in the past years that we've had the boat.

...................

So I'm curious if you (or any of the other PNW boaters on this forum who boat year round) have observed the same thing?

Bear in mind that we have all of (almost) 2 years experience at this so I'm really not qualified to speak on any trends.* We boat exclusively in what you would call winter/spring - it doesn't seem like winter to us because we are used to prairie winter but those are our seasons on the boat.* In 2 years I can think of one occasion where the wind turned us back and I can't think of another occasion where we altered our intentions because of wind.* I watch the wind forecasts and the systems synopsis carefully and we might adjust our departure time by up to 24 hours but wind hasn't prevented us from going where we want to go substantially when we want to go there.* I can think of a few possible explanations for that:

- we may just be stupid - never underestimate the power of stupid people acting in concert

- our frame of reference may be different - we may think that "OK conditions" are substantially different than what others think

- our boat may be more suited to rougher conditions - we have Naiad stabilizers which we don't use all the time but we do use them when conditions warrant.

And finally one pseudo-political comment: Its NOT climate change.* The sea is a hard mistress and windy seas have been beating up mariners since the first monkey climbed onboard a floating log and set out to visit his girlfriend on the next island.

*

 

[Steppen]

I spent a few minutes looking at one of the National Data Buoy Center stations for average wind speed in excess of 20 knots.* If you are not aware of the NDBC it is a good source of weather observations.* We use Smith Island (SISW) which is adjacent to Whidbey Island and at the far eastern edge of the Strait of Juan de Fuca.* There is nothing between Smith Island and Japan except water and wind.* Smith Island is just one of the buoys that provide indications on what is going on in the northern reaches of Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands.* Like most places along the inside passage the weather right now at one station is not an indication of what is going on 20 miles north or south.

The National Data Buoy Center home page with info on observations worldwide (thank you NOAA for the info and service) is at http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/

For history about this particular station use this link http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_history.php?station=sisw1

I queried the historical data from 2001 to 2011.* Here's a screen shot of the data search page and a MSExcel spreadsheet of the resultant data for the period.

Not sure what conclusions to draw.**I've added the linear average and it does show an upward trend.**Probably should have gone back another 20 years to have a look and see if the trend over a greater period shows an increase.*

*



-- Edited by Steppen on Thursday 15th of March 2012 01:20:20 PM


-- Edited by Steppen on Thursday 15th of March 2012 01:20:54 PM

 

[Marin]

bobofthenorth wrote:In 2 years I can think of one occasion where the wind turned us back and I can't think of another occasion where we altered our intentions because of wind....
- we may just be stupid - never underestimate the power of stupid people acting in concert.....

*

In most cases when we have decided not to go out because of the wind and water conditions it's not been because we don't believe the boat or we can't handle it but because it's just not that much fun.

I doubt stupidity has anything to do with your boating experience.* You seem a pretty level-headed person to me based on your posts.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Steppen wrote:
I spent a few minutes looking at one of the National Data Buoy Center stations for average wind speed in excess of 20 knots.*

I'd be curious to see the longer term chart as well.* Not curious enough to do the work myself mind you.*

A good resource on the Canuck side of the border is Environment Canada's automated buoy reports.* Halibut Bank at the south end of the Strait and Sentry Shoal at the north end are the useful references for Georgia Strait, when they are working.*

*

*

 

[Steppen]

The NDBC home page I included above opens to show a map of the world with a whole bunch of weather buoys worldwide, including Environment Canada's buoys.

 

[Rancher]

Marin,

I also cruise out of Bellingham. *I am semi retired and spend one week out of three cruising the Pacific NW. 80% of the time I choose to anchor rather than tie up to a mooring ball or spend time at the marina. *I have noticed more windy days as well, but figured it was just me focusing on the negative. *I also feel that the 3 resources i use for weather prediction are wrong about wind speed and direction than in the past. *Any data to support our thoughts on the increase in wind frequency and velocity?

*

Dave Harris* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Selene 48*

Bellingham

 

[Boathommy]

bobofthenorth wrote:
Our policy is underwritten by Beacon and includes wording that effectively limits us to coastal waters from Washington to Juneau.* Changing that would require a call to our broker.* I doubt there would be any premium change but with insurance companies you never know*- they tend to like to charge and avoid paying.

(edit) I guess I'm about to find out what it costs to make a change.* On closer reading I realized that the wording prevents us from getting to Seattle.* We are limited to no more than 1000 miles from Victoria which isn't a problem but concurrently we are limited to operations on the Washington coast north of 48 degrees latitude.* Since we are currently in Port Angeles planning to continue to Seattle that is a problem.* Its not likely to be a problem in the immediate future because it continues to piss rain here which is prolonging our haulout but perhaps sometime in the next month or so we will get a dry day.* Marin's logs and fog and foul bottoms notwithstanding, the real drawback to Pacific Northwet boating is RAIN, nonstop interminable bloody RAIN.

*



-- Edited by bobofthenorth on Thursday 15th of March 2012 10:25:05 AM

*But you won't be boating on the Washington coast.* Check with your agent but I'm sure that cruising to Seattle is within your coverage area.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Boathommy wrote:
*But you won't be boating on the Washington coast.* Check with your agent but I'm sure that cruising to Seattle is within your coverage area.

As it turns out, that's exactly the interpretation that the underwriter put on it.* I'm not much on trusting insurers.* I trust my broker but the underwriters are another matter altogether.* Now we have something in writing saying that our plans are OK so I feel more comfortable.*

 

[Marin]

Rancher wrote:*Any data to support our thoughts on the increase in wind

I don't have any data but I'm sure one could wade back through the last few years of NOAA and Environment Canada readings and draw up some sort of comparison chart.* My earlier statements are based just on what we have experienced through the late 90s and 2000s.* But the fact that other boaters in our club have noticed and had to modify their boating plans in the last few years more than they're used to doing would seem to indicate some sort of trend.

The first winter we had the boat, 1998-99, was extremely windy as well.* Of course we didn't have near the experience with this kind of boating we have now so our wind threshold for going out was considerably lower than it is today.* But we remember sitting on the boat in the south basin where we were subletting a slip and getting hit with 70 mph gusts on many occasions thay heeled the sailboats way over in their slips..* Things calmed down considerably in the following winters, so perhaps it's just a cylical sort of thing.

 

[Carey]

We are insured with Ace Recreational Marine Insurance, and are very happy with them.

They do limit our cruising area to Puget Sound and its navigable tributaries, the Strait of Juan de Fuca, including a 25 mile radius of Cape Flattery, and inside waters of British Columbia not west of Nitinat Narrows (Vancouver Island, BC) and not north of 51 degrees North Latitude.

We can purchase extra coverage to go beyond those limitations if needed.

*

*

 

[bobofthenorth]

Carey wrote:
They do limit our cruising area to Puget Sound ...... and not north of 51 degrees North Latitude.*

FWIW our northern limit is Cape Spencer which is 58 degrees and change.* Looks like standard boilerplate in our Beacon policy.*

 

[Budds Outlet]

Thanks for the info on policy extentions. I've done it for trailering inland but not on the salt. It sounds like all I need to do is pay a little more for the coverage when I go north.

Interesting discussion about the wind.