If you have an ebike, please read

[ktdtx]

I have a lot of miles on my road bike. I wear a helmet.
Every time I put it on I think-- what will this over-priced plastic coated lump of styrofoam do to protect my head if I fall?
I still wear it.

 

[Jklotz]

I have a lot of miles on my road bike. I wear a helmet.
Every time I put it on I think-- what will this over-priced plastic coated lump of styrofoam do to protect my head if I fall?
I still wear it.

It actually would do a lot if you had an impact. The "styrofoam" has lots of bubbles of air and is designed to crumple upon impact, taking the blunt of the force instead of your head taking it. The designs have improved greatly over the years, and if you ever have to use it, I promise you'll be grateful you were wearing it.

BTW - I have a friend who owns a chain of bike stores in Atlanta, and he told me the cheap ones offer the same protection as the expensive ones. Expensive ones are lighter, more comfortable, more stylish and allow more air flow, but don't protect you any better.

 

[psneeld]

It's bad enough that some here feel it necessary to tell others how to boat or cruise, now we are telling people how to ride a scooter or ebike...why not regular bikes or any other activity that involves motion?

One thing to tell a sad story, but I much prefer internet forums of general nature to leave advice at that... funny how random some will make judgement on others.

Most posts are more generic advice, but the pleading with or telling others what to do if they didn't ask.....

 

[dannc]

I can understand why some people would want to wear a helmet. I do have an E-scooter, also and E-bike and I don't wear a helmet. Reason ?
My E-scooter does not go that fast and since I grew up with scooters and bikes, plus have been riding them my whole life, am pretty sure my handling is a bit better than most people. In the Netherlands we have 23 million bikes on a population of not even 18 million. We basically live on our bikes and we don't have a helmet duty, nor do people wear them. We do have accidents with bikes, but the deadly accidents are mostly accidents between bicycles and cars / trucks. People literally get run over.
If you plan to go about 50 mph with a bicycle, then I can understand you want to wear a helmet. But for a speed of 10 - 15 mph I am not going to wear a helmet. First of all I have no idea where to go with that helmet once I get somewhere and if I leave it outside it will get soaking wet in the rain and that is only if the helmet is there when I get back.

Glad you mentioned the Netherlands since that was what I was thinking about as I read this discussion. We have been to the NL a couple of times and I read a couple of English language NL news sites to keep up with things in the country. Using a bike helmet is a topic over there and we saw very few people wearing them. I do see most bike riders wearing a helmet here in NC so it was a bit surprising to see how few people use them in the NL.

From what I have seen in the NL, the roads, bike paths and people paths were kept in great shape. In the places I have lived in the US, there really are no bike paths comparable to the NL. A bike path here is usually just part of the road, so there can be gravel, leaves, trash, etc in the bike path. I just did not see that in the NL. I suspect if one looked at the miles ridden in the US vs the NL, the US would have a higher accident rate due to the condition of the bike paths and the lack of separation between bikes, people and vehicles compared to the NL.

The other positive thing we noticed about the NL was that drivers really seemed to pay attention to bikes and pedestrians. Driving in the NL, I had to be very aware of the bikes on the bike paths. Paying attention to pedestrians was normal but the bikes on bike paths was different and something to be aware.

The NL has a bigger problem with the Fat Bikes though. I was really surprised to see those things speeding along. eScooters are an issue in many places. I was watching a video last night from Dublin, and in the background a guy went buy a few times on an eScooter at a very high speed. Unreal how fast that thing was going. I see them here in the US and people are very reckless and careless on them but least the rentals are not too fast.

As mentioned, some states like Florida do not have helmet laws. We were driving on I4 after the helmet requirement was removed. A guy passed us doing at least 80. He was wearing flip flops, shorts, T shirt and a Do Rag for a helmet. We were a bit shocked at what he was wearing but then figured at his speed, if he had an accident, it was not going to mater. Now, once he got off the Interstate wearing the correct equipment could save his live and minimize pain. Florida roads have sand on them which is going to make the road rash in a crash so much more painful.

 

[Frosty]

... We basically live on our bikes and we don't have a helmet duty, nor do people wear them. ... I have no idea where to go with that helmet once I get somewhere and if I leave it outside it will get soaking wet in the rain and that is only if the helmet is there when I get back.

Well on the bright side, if no-one wears them then it's unlikely someone will steal yours. I guess I would put it in a plastic bag and attach it to the bike while I was gone.

I do hear you though. When I was in The Netherlands it was "odd" (compared to what I was used to) to see so many people on bikes without helmets (plus also wearing suits and business attire). Of course no-one even knew of such a thing when I was a kid riding bikes, but by now I'd say the majority of people in the US are wearing them so they look normal.

The more we know about concussions and head injuries, the less I want to take chances with one.

 

[Mac2]

This is a no brainer (pun intended). I am all for freedom of choice IF you are 100% accountable for your actions. Translation: If you get a head injury due to not wearing a helmet, you pay 100% of your medical bills. If cities/counties looked at how much they are spending to cover head injuries due to lack of insurance coverage, they might rethink implementing a helmet law.

 

[READY]

I can understand why some people would want to wear a helmet. I do have an E-scooter, also and E-bike and I don't wear a helmet. Reason ?
My E-scooter does not go that fast and since I grew up with scooters and bikes, plus have been riding them my whole life, am pretty sure my handling is a bit better than most people. In the Netherlands we have 23 million bikes on a population of not even 18 million. We basically live on our bikes and we don't have a helmet duty, nor do people wear them. We do have accidents with bikes, but the deadly accidents are mostly accidents between bicycles and cars / trucks. People literally get run over.
If you plan to go about 50 mph with a bicycle, then I can understand you want to wear a helmet. But for a speed of 10 - 15 mph I am not going to wear a helmet. First of all I have no idea where to go with that helmet once I get somewhere and if I leave it outside it will get soaking wet in the rain and that is only if the helmet is there when I get back.

I was going 10-15 mph when I fell. Have ridden bikes nearly daily for 30+ years. Neither is assurance you wont fall and in my case helmet split in two vs. my skull.

Helmets are like life jackets and life insurance. You don't need them until you do and is a sunk cost if you don't use them. I don't claim to wear my life jacket for calm weather Bay cruising. But if on the ocean and on deck I usually will at least have one at hand if not wearing it. If rough water and I have to go on deck I wear it.

 

[psneeld]

This is a no brainer (pun intended). I am all for freedom of choice IF you are 100% accountable for your actions. Translation: If you get a head injury due to not wearing a helmet, you pay 100% of your medical bills. If cities/counties looked at how much they are spending to cover head injuries due to lack of insurance coverage, they might rethink implementing a helmet law.

I have to pay 100%? Or is it OK if MY insurance that I pay for or have earned pays it?

 

[Jeff F]

I see quite articles recently that Amsterdam is grappling with ebikes.

Many municipalities are grappling with them. I just read an article in the NYT describing how a rental operation has agreed to dial down the top speed from 18 to 15 mph in NYC. Similarly there are municipalities negotiating over safety considerations for rental e-scooters.

It's a pretty big challenge. They don't just threaten the rider, but also pedestrians and other cyclists.

 

[High Wire]

In the US, the argument generally falls into 2 camps:
Crash safer (with a helmet}
Crash less (without a helmet)
Some locations the rider gets to choose.

 

[Jklotz]

It's bad enough that some here feel it necessary to tell others how to boat or cruise, now we are telling people how to ride a scooter or ebike...why not regular bikes or any other activity that involves motion?

One thing to tell a sad story, but I much prefer internet forums of general nature to leave advice at that... funny how random some will make judgement on others.

Most posts are more generic advice, but the pleading with or telling others what to do if they didn't ask.....

I don't tell anybody what to do, but if you are putting yourself in danger, I'll do what I can to try to prevent it. It's the decent thing to do. Riding an e scooter? I'll suggest you wear a helmet. No different than somebody doing a crossing without life vests or a VHF. I'm going to say something. Maybe that upsets you? I'd prefer not to do that, but if it prevents one more person from ending up in the emergency room, or worse, then that would be the price I'd have to pay. For me, it's the right thing to do.

 

[psneeld]

I just deleted a long winded explanation......

But just to point out a simple fact.... from post #1.... " Please wear a helmet." Sure sounds like telling people what to do to me.

Other posts, using words like "stupid" and "right or wrong" don't foster discussion with people who may view the subject a bit differently.

 

[firehoser75]

While I mostly support freedom for individual choice, and as such am often against Government involvement in general, I do not understand the decision to not to try to protect what is one of the most sensitive and most important body parts, your brain. Head injuries can be serious (even concussions can be permanently life altering) even at low speeds of impact depending on many factors often involving "luck" or circumstances. E scooters, bikes, etc. can and do go more than fast (way beyond "slow speeds") enough to cause serious injuries of many types (with heads being very vulnerable) during an accident. Accidents happen more often than one might think even when people are operating these things properly and safely. A head injury can be fatal, or could very negatively affect the quality of the rest of your life, or if lucky only result in minor injuries.
I have attended many accidents where serious head trauma was the result of what could have been a relatively "minor accident" were it not for the serious head injury. Helmets do help to prevent or reduce head injuries (of course they are not always effective again depending on various factors).
I recommend the use of helmets, even for skiing. Why rely on "luck" (or being able to avoid all accidents)?
JMHO

 

[Mac2]

I have to pay 100%? Or is it OK if MY insurance that I pay for or have earned pays it?

It is ok. I’ll also allow your mommy and daddy to pay for it as well. As long as you’re not relying on tax payer money.

 

[Jklotz]

I just deleted a long winded explanation......

But just to point out a simple fact.... from post #1.... " Please wear a helmet." Sure sounds like telling people what to do to me.

Other posts, using words like "stupid" and "right or wrong" don't foster discussion with people who may view the subject a bit differently.

I've got a good friend in the ICU at this very moment. He has tubes sticking out of his head and has been in a medically induced coma for 2 days. It's been touch and go the whole time. Finally, as of 4pm today, they are saying he is now in critical but stable condition. I guess that means he's not in immediate danger of dying? We don't know how this will play out, but there is a very good chance he'll never walk or talk again. Why? Because he wasn't wearing a helmet on an e scooter.

So you'll have to pardon me for telling others what to do, I'm a bit emotional at the moment. But yes, I do think EVERYBODY who rides those things should have a helmet on. I'm not going to apologize for taking action to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again. I feel pretty helpless in this situation, wishing there was more that I could do. At least this is something I can, warning others of the dangers.

 

[mvweebles]

I just deleted a long winded explanation......

But just to point out a simple fact.... from post #1.... " Please wear a helmet." Sure sounds like telling people what to do to me.

Other posts, using words like "stupid" and "right or wrong" don't foster discussion with people who may view the subject a bit differently.

A bit cranky today???

There are folks who don't want to wear a helmet. No problem there. But there are likely a LOT of folks who don't simply because they are lazy, don't want to look dorky, or don't know what they'll do with the helmet once they arrive. For those lazy folks (I fall into that category), the OPs post was a great reminder of the risk. A not-so-subtle-nudge to think hard about not wearing a helmet.

A man's head weighs close to the weight of a bowling ball and it's fairly fragile and not particularly well attached or supported. Expecting it to do well even in a low speed crash is naive to say the least.

Peter

 

[kthoennes]

Ironically, here in South Dakota, home of the Sturgis Rally and kind of the motorcycle capital of the US, no helmets required. Every year the media posts the number of Rally deaths.

 

[Jklotz]

Ironically, here in South Dakota, home of the Sturgis Rally and kind of the motorcycle capital of the US, no helmets required. Every year the media posts the number of Rally deaths.

I guess Darwinism doesn't really take freedom into account? At the end of the day, it's probably better for the long term survival of humanity.

 

[BruceK]

jklotz raised an excellent issue, provoking a range of responses, some surprising, some predictable, some good,some otherwise.
It`s about your head, and mostly the important bit inside, the brain. Though there are other head mounted items to protect. Or not.
Adopting a position, involves the brain deciding whether, and to what extent, it wants to protect itself. How amazingly circular is that!
So, if your brain favors freedom over all else, it can choose potential exposure to injury or destruction, to further the cause of freedom. If it favors its own safety, it can choose a helmet to contribute to saving itself from, or reducing, potential severe injury. Between those 2 positions lie others.
Your brain will make a choice. A good choice for you may not be a good choice for others. But, it`s your, ie. your brain`s, choice.
In years of multi day cycling rides in Australia, Canada, NZ, Europe, UK, and many day local rides, I chose a helmet. At least twice it protected me when needed. My head, my brain, my choice.

 

[guy with a boat]

Most posts are more generic advice, but the pleading with or telling others what to do if they didn't ask.....

No one is telling anyone what to do, they are sharing information and, yes, recommending helmet use. The point here is that it is easy to underestimate the risks, sometimes with serious consequences. I won’t add to the sad stories but I have them also.

Are you offended if a thread recommends ignition-protected electronics for gas boats? Replacing improper thru-hulls to avoid sinking a boat? The purpose of these forums is to share information and helpful advice.

Move along if you are not interested. Its not that hard.

 

[psneeld]

Not cranky at all. And sorry, but calling people stupid and pleading with them to do something isn't advice, it's personal.

Again.... I will not go into detail, but we all have gone through personal, circle of friends and family tragedies, as well as hearing horrors from all over the globe every day.

I am sorry for posting here as I know forums can be "socializing" for some... I just have a different view of forums.

 

[mvweebles]

San Francisco Bay, where my boat passion was cultivated, once had a die-hard culture of not wearing PFDs despite the usual afternoon boisterous waters. One tragic event changed the culture: every year there are a couple major yachting events. In the mid/late 1990s, the Big Boat series came to town. A then-recent Rolex Yachtsman of the Year Larry Klein was on an experimental boat with a total of 5-6 crew plus the helmsman. Crew were all hiked-out on "picnic benches." In the middle of a race, the bench gave way and all crew ended up in the water. Klein, a professional (i.e. paid, his "day job") late-30's sailor in excellent condition, died within 10-minutes of hitting the water. From then on, wearing inflatable PFDs was not only 'cool,' but not wearing one was categorically 'un-cool' in a way that someone upthread said a friend wouldn't start a motorcycle ride unless he donned his helmet.

My point is sharing stories like the OP's has an effect. I don't see it as preachy or pleading. It's a call to action based on dots being closely connected: undeniable a human head is vulnerable in an accident. I see it as a good reminder to take the time and effort to wear a helmet. If you don't want to, don't - I don't really care unless you're close to me. Then I care a LOT.

Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

Freedom of choice.

Does Australia allow:

Cigarette smoking?
Alcohol consumption?
Eating unhealthy foods (high cholesterol or saturated fat)?
Going boating on marginal days?

I can see requirements for children to maybe 18 or 21, but frankly I don't want to live in a country where some elected officials decide society would be safer without coffee.

Ted

LOL. The safety of drinking coffee goes in and style so …. All things in moderation except sex (chuckle)

 

[READY]

My post contained the word "stupid"
Oxford defines as:
having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

Making a decision to not wear a helmet to me tells me the rider may be either:
1)unaware of the risk and repercussions of head trauma (on themselves and loved ones)
2) chose to accept the risk above which seems to me to be irrational
3)are unable to obtain a helmet for any number of reasons (financial, helmet theft) and would rather ride their bike and risk trauma vs finding a helmet.

So is a person not wearing a helmet stupid? Generally I still say yes.
As stated by jklotz I feel a responsibility to share my first hand life changing benefit of wearing a helmet. Maybe it will only resonate with a few and perhaps it grates on a few who think this is being forced upon them. Perhaps they don't like seatbelts or safety glass or ??? I just hope my friends and family are not one of those.

I am grateful for @Jklotz posting as a reminder to us all. I hope your friend will be able to have a full recovery despite the current prognosis.
Also thankful to others who have shared and commented.
Now back to boating!

 

[Papas]

Only relaying personal experiences and personal opinion.
I commuted to work and did extensive road biking for years, regularly riding between 100-200 miles/week year round (except when icy).

During this period I had 3 helmets “die” - doing their job. I quit riding after the last helmet death, as I came away with 2 severely fractured vertebrae and a torn vertebral artery (the neuro surgeon couldn’t explain why I was not paralyzed). These injuries were sustained while my bikes’ forward velocity was perhaps 2-3mph.

When it comes to head / neck injuries from biking (regular or e-bikes) it doesn’t really matter if speed is involved or someone simply fell over while stationary, potential traumatic impact can still occur.

Like PFD’s, helmets are the cheapest “insurance” a rider can have.

 

[BruceK]

A suggestion for cap wearer bike users. Some would be philosophically opposed to helmets, but for the majority, do not wear a cap under a helmet. The helmet slides on the cap and can come off in an impact. There are velcro attached visors for bike helmets.

 

[Rigamarole]

Yeah, sorry for all the bad stories. Motorcycles and no helmut freaks me out. I just ride a Kawasaki KLX250 Dual Sport and can't imagine going anywhere without a helmet.

The strangest thing about safety laws is you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet but you can't drive a car with a bumper, airbags, windshield, antilock brakes, etc without wearing a seatbelt. I mean - the motorcycle part is moronic.

Full disclosure though, I snow ski without a helmet - fast and pretty hard. I'm not going to change.

 

[Dougcole]

I can understand why some people would want to wear a helmet. I do have an E-scooter, also and E-bike and I don't wear a helmet. Reason ?
My E-scooter does not go that fast and since I grew up with scooters and bikes, plus have been riding them my whole life, am pretty sure my handling is a bit better than most people. In the Netherlands we have 23 million bikes on a population of not even 18 million. We basically live on our bikes and we don't have a helmet duty, nor do people wear them. We do have accidents with bikes, but the deadly accidents are mostly accidents between bicycles and cars / trucks. People literally get run over.
If you plan to go about 50 mph with a bicycle, then I can understand you want to wear a helmet. But for a speed of 10 - 15 mph I am not going to wear a helmet. First of all I have no idea where to go with that helmet once I get somewhere and if I leave it outside it will get soaking wet in the rain and that is only if the helmet is there when I get back.

Yeah, the man I mentioned in my earlier post who died in the street in front of my house and young kids? He was from the Netherlands.

Didn't seem to help him much.

 

[BruceK]

My understanding is, if you run into a brick wall, head down, at 15km/hr, you get a head injury. There`s plenty of evidence coming out of sporting circles, confirmed by post mortem, of brain injury leading to dementia, from repeated head trauma on the sports field.
The wonderful thing about our world is, your head, your choice(subject to laws). Is a wet helmet due to rain worse than a brain injury? Is replacing lost helmets a greater hassle? You decide.
Your friends, relatives, carers,medical advisors, etc, don`t get a say. But if things go bad, pick up the pieces afterwards.

 

[StarBright]

Since this is a boating forum, my story involves both boats and helmets...
Used to do a lot of road biking before the advent of cell phones (which seem to distract drivers to not see road bikers). Riding along a mountain pass at 20 mph hugging the edge of the road, and a camper passes me.
Didn't know that he was towing a boat and didn't like bikers! He drives close and flips his steering wheel intentionally and the boat knocks me off my bike - hard hit to head, shoulder, elbow and knee, with great quantity of road rash. Never even knew what hit me, but was ever so glad to have that helmet on.
He kept driving but the car following stopped him and got the police involved. At least I got my MRI's paid for - I now ride an eMTB and never ever without a helmet. I bet I'm one of the few that can say a boat hit me when I was riding my bike!